REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Great68 · 07-21-2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewie

yes we were going to, but we had absolutely no reason for them to go in there and check...just because were white males aged 20-30 that gives them the right to assume that we have beer in our coolers and to check??

Either you consented, or somehow they had reasonable and probable grounds. Even if they didn't have reasonable and probable grounds, it's set up so that it's better for them to search you anyways and let a judge decide whether they searched illegally or not later. Kind of like the old saying "Better to ask for forgiveness....". Also, even if they did search you illegally and made you pour out your beer what's the realistic chance you would challenge this in court? Another plus for them.

Great68 · 07-21-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaru

Here in Victoria, Thetis Lake is a very popular summer hangout... so naturally some people bring booze. Local bylaw enforcement officers are usually wandering around asking people to dump their liquor. I've never really noticed any serious public drunkenness, and there's usually just as many families as there are teenagers (especially on weekends).

Several times over the past few years, local RCMP have set up a road block entering the main parking lot and asked to search cars for alcohol. This search is mandatory for everyone, even a 60-year-old grandma coming into the park to walk their dog. If you refuse the search, then you will be denied entry to the park.

Now, I don't really have a problem with this, as I've never taken booze to the lake. I'm sure it's for the best, as cliff jumping and alcohol are a bad combo.

But, based on the info posted above, it sounds like this sort of search would be illegal... there's no reason to think that grandma has brought some vodka to the lake with her dog, is there? And can you really deny someone entrance to a public park if they don't allow for their car or bag to be searched?

If I recall correctly, a civil rights group challenged Victoria Police over their random bus searches on Canada Day, and won. Wouldn't this beach search be the same concept, but with even less probable cause?

I think it's a loophole that they can say you must consent to a search as a condition of entering the park, even if it's a public park. When it's set up like that, there's no need for probable cause.

After the Canada day thing, police could no longer perform "random" searches, but as a condition of being able to ride the bus you must have been willing to consent to a search.

Amaru · 07-21-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

I think it's a loophole that they can say you must consent to a search as a condition of entering the park, even if it's a public park. When it's set up like that, there's no need for probable cause.

After the Canada day thing, police could no longer perform "random" searches, but as a condition of being able to ride the bus you must have been willing to consent to a search.

I see. I think the Canada Day bus situation makes more sense, as well over half the people on the bus are probably intoxicated or have alcohol in their possession. At Thetis, it's probably 10% or less, and there's no specific day when alcohol is a major problem (unlike Canada Day).

I don't know if that makes any difference to the loophole you mentioned, but it certainly seems like there's very limited "reasonable cause" at the lake.

The concept of forcing people to consent to a search in order to access a public park doesn't sit well with me, personally. Where do you draw the line on these sort of indiscriminate searches? Why not just ask the same police officers to patrol the lake on foot or bicycle (especially dangerous drinking spots, ie cliffs)? Sure, it might be somewhat less effective, but at least it doesn't subject innocent people to random searches at a public park.

Phil@rise · 07-21-2010, 05:48 PM

Great68 Based on what was posted I don't see any loopholes I think its just a classic case of pushing the limits of the laws from the other side. The police can do so until someone or a group makes enough of a stink about it.
Everyone pushes the boundaries a little till caught.

Great68 · 07-21-2010, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amaru

Sure, it might be somewhat less effective, but at least it doesn't subject innocent people to random searches at a public park.

Queue comments from the "If you have nothing to hide..." camp.

Great68 · 07-21-2010, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil@rise

Great68 Based on what was posted I don't see any loopholes I think its just a classic case of pushing the limits of the laws from the other side. The police can do so until someone or a group makes enough of a stink about it.
Everyone pushes the boundaries a little till caught.

You're right, I'm sure that's true too.

taylor192 · 07-21-2010, 09:51 PM

I was at Kits beach last night having a beer with a friend when I saw 3 sets of lights coming up the path and knew right away it was the VPD ATVs. We finished our beers, put the rest away, and quieted down a bit. The other groups that didn't notice continued drinking and being loud. Guess which groups the officers approached and kindly asked to leave? Guess who got to stay and keep drinking?

I heard the best excuse from the group of kids beside me:
"What are those?"
"They were there when we sat down"
"Is that really the answer you want to give me?"

LOL as if the kids tried that. The officers moved on and the kids quickly packed up and left. Didn't see any tickets handed out.

Tim Budong · 07-22-2010, 01:18 AM

ive had some pretty good experiences with open liquor at these events
then again, we actually clean up and dispose the cans in a black bag, the cops just let it go

underscore · 07-22-2010, 08:57 PM

correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you only allowed to transport sealed alcohol from the store directly to the location where it is being consumed? this would explain the dumping of closed cans/bottles (which I have seen multiple times at the beach).

In the small Manitoba town that my friend is from, the officers have an informal "down it or dump it" policy, you either have to chug the rest of your drink or pour it out haha

Culverin · 07-23-2010, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

Queue comments from the "If you have nothing to hide..." camp.

Well, If I wasn't doing anything illegal at the beach/park, I'd be all high and mighty like, search me, I'm clean.

I know the "no intoxication in public" is a safety rule that if they change, will only get worse.
The public likes to push the boundary. And gets warm and fuzzies when having pushed said boundary.
And if the pushed boundary = Still safe,
Then why would anybody like a popo want change that?
I'll take a more restrictive law that keeps more people safe, than a more liberal law where there is a large possibility of public risks.

lols what?
They participate in the cheering of shotgunning your beer/cooler?
hahahaha

taylor192 · 07-26-2010, 10:43 AM

I was at Kits beach watching the fireworks Sat and was kinda disgusted by the police behaviour. They kicked everyone off the beach, using the search lights from the helicopter above. Seriously, is that really necessary? Its not much a family event when the cops are herding you off the beach.

At least they were being nice about booze. Dump and go home, or stay and get fined. The officer that herded us off the beach was pretty hot too.

sonick · 07-26-2010, 11:02 AM

Was at Kits as well all day Saturday from 2pm until the fireworks, luckily didn't get busted for drinks despite my friend bringing TRANSPARENT plastic cups lol.

We had a crapload of different beer and a bottle of rum. Poured the drink inside the cooler into non-obvious containers (I brought a stainless steel water bottle) and didn't cause a ruckus.