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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 07-19-2010, 06:00 PM   #1
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Am I at fault at all?

So today, I was driving down 41st Ave Eastbound and waiting to turn left onto Nanaimo St. Northbound. The light was green and it was all clear to go so I completed my turn onto Nanaimo St. I was about 10 meters onto Nanaimo St. and I heard a bam. So being a good person, I stopped my car, parallel parked and went to see what happened. This was my first mistake I guess.

As I approached the other driver, who apparently drove up onto the sidewalk, while blowing both her tires. She then accuses me of making an unsafe turn and causing her to swerve away to avoid me.

After 10-20 mins of conversation and figuring out what happened, since I did not see her vehicle or the accident. she requests me to call the police, so I comply but the 911 service tells me to just call a tow truck since no one was injured and no apparent danger was at the scene. I explained that to her and even called 411 to get Busters towings number for her so she can get hre car out of the way. She refuses and throws a little tantrum.

She then calls 911 again, and gets a fire truck here with several firemen. Even at the scene, the firefighters asked why I was still there and told me that this wasn't my fault. I was already clear into Nanaimo St. and my car was untouched. She swerved right to 'avoid' me and if I was slow to turn on an 'unsafe' turn, her car would've clipped mine atleast. They also advised me to take pictures of her ties skid marks on the road which went back atleast 15 meters. They said this proved she was going at a fairly fast speed.

I called ICBC to explain the situation and they told me that the other driver made a claim already. Now I have to go in on Wednesday to see the adjuster, or whoever.

Other facts: we are both N drivers and while I had my sign up, she did not.

she admitted to going to work, in Richmond, and it was at 9:30. The 'accident' occurred at 9:15-9:20. She was obviously in a rush to work, I don't know how to prove that though.

she repeatedly did not let me leave the scene, despite me giving her my DL#, and insurance papers.

The gentleman opposite to me (black car) was turning left as well Southbound onto Nanaimo. Stopped and gave us his business card to act as a witness. I believe he witnessed me turn left, as he should.

My car is the green one and the other drivers is the gray one.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:14 PM   #2
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I'm surprised you even stuck around for so long

I think this would be pretty hard to peg on you since she has no witness and there are
No damages on your car.
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Old 07-19-2010, 06:19 PM   #3
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Thanks, my uncle was like, "you should've just ditched. your car was untouched"

Well the 'witness' will probably tell the truth. I did turn left on the green and she did technically have the right of way. but during my turn, i did nto see her whatsoever. and I was clearly through onto nanaimo st. I had to reverse and park to see what's up.

I think it is pretty obvious that she was going at a fair fast speed and when she saw me turn, she pressed on her brake and lost control. I don't know how to prove that. since she can just lie as well.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:04 PM   #4
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From my understanding, if you avoid a dangerous car, and hit something, then it's completely your fault. I was taught to just keep doing whatever you were supposed to be doing and let the car hit you, that way it's their fault. I would have just given her the finger and left...
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:15 PM   #5
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Ohhhhh this totally explains what I saw this morning, I was turning right out of one of the side streets east of that intersection. So I look both ways to see if its clear for me to turn eastbound onto 41st Ave and I see a greyish toyota corolla or something over 3 quarters on the curb at the bus stop. I just assumed it was some c-lai pulled over dropping off someone at the bus stop, haha. I must have just missed it, I saw a couple people around the grey car talking or something.
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Old 07-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #6
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not your fault. your vehicle would have to have collided with hers for it to count.
Also, she has no right to force you to stay at the scene. You gave her your info. You had every right to leave after.

I've been in 2 incidents where the other driver was reckless and hit something trying to avoid me while they were speeding. ICBC never even bothered me

Also, other thing is, if you were turning left, and she was going straight, why would she swerve TOWARD the direction you were turning and TOWARDS a curb? Instinctually she would swerve AWAY from you.
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Old 07-19-2010, 08:38 PM   #7
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^ Exactly what I was thinking. She's got nothing on you.

Did you take any pictures of the scene as instructed?

Sounds like she was being a retard, crashed (single vehicle accident / dropping the ball), wanted to peg the blame on someone, and you happened to be nearby. Call me judgemental, but that's the only explanation I can think of. Buddy is right, if someone turned left in front of me I might swerve LEFT or go straight (and hit the guy), but never go RIGHT??

The witness should clear things up.
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Old 07-19-2010, 09:53 PM   #8
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Ohhhhh this totally explains what I saw this morning, I was turning right out of one of the side streets east of that intersection. So I look both ways to see if its clear for me to turn eastbound onto 41st Ave and I see a greyish toyota corolla or something over 3 quarters on the curb at the bus stop. I just assumed it was some c-lai pulled over dropping off someone at the bus stop, haha. I must have just missed it, I saw a couple people around the grey car talking or something.

LOL you should've stopped to say hi.

thanks for the support. I took pics of her vehicle and the skid marks. Other than that, my vehicle is untouched and it should be enough evidence on my side. If anything, I should've gotten the firefighter's badge number for future reference. but I'm sure they can backtrack it if anything.

I was surprised she swerved right too. I got out of the car and called my uncle who lives a couple blocks away. hes been driving for like 40 years and he's like "why would you swerve right, where he was TURNING TO"

she had no answer
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:07 PM   #9
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it doesnt make too much sense to me why she would swerve right towards the direction that you are traveling, if anything that makes it seems like she was tryin to hit you.

honestly I would of left cause how the fuck if she gonna try and blame you for a 1 person accident.
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:14 PM   #10
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I'm sure zulu or skid could give us an estimation of how fast she was going based on 15m(!!) skidmarks... obviously it will vary somewhat depending on the car and tire compounds, but seems to me it would have to be pretty fast for that to happen.

Hmm, according to http://www.harristechnical.com/skid33.htm - asphalt, dry conditions, level ground, she would have to be doing about 35mph, or 56km/h, when she hit the brakes, which technically would mean she was speeding (assuming your estimation of the length of skidmarks is correct).
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Old 07-19-2010, 10:37 PM   #11
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the firefighter told me to take a picture of the skid marks. he told me that the skid marks were "atleast 15 meters" so she "must've been going fairly fast." the pictures clearly shows the skid marks through the intersection, and there was more at the scene. if each lane is avg of 3 meters and the side walk is the same-ish... that's already 12 meters.

in my pictures, it doesn't show anymore due to the quality of the phone's camera.

but I know that the firemen's statements and judgment stands little to no persuasion for ICBC and it's claim officers. unless there is another way to justify his statement/estimation?

the red lines denotes the skid marks which is visible from my pictures taken. and the gray is her actual location while the green is where I stopped before i backed up and parked.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:15 PM   #12
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why did she swerve to the right?... obviously she was behind your turn, otherwise you would have seen her pass infront... so she should have been swerving left not right if she legitimately had to get out of your way...
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:35 PM   #13
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Bitch was probably on the phone or texting, and not paying attention to the road... hit send, looked up as she hit the crosswalk, saw the ass end of your car, panicked, hit the brakes... the roads are pretty rutted around there from all the trucks, the ruts probably threw her to the right as soon as she locked up the wheels.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:42 PM   #14
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From the sounds of it, I am thinking the girl was in the left lane behind the left turner. She changed into the right lane, and when she pulled out from behind the other car, she saw you turn left and panicked slamming on the brakes hence why she slid into the curb and bus stop.

Personally, I think how ICBC decides is based on the eye witness testimony. If the guy says you turned left and was going really slowly, that might impact ICBC's descision on who is at fault.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:48 PM   #15
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I agree that the eye witness will sway ICBC's decision. Both the witness and I were both waiting to turn left at the intersection. I saw his car come forward to make his turn and therefore was able to see that there was no oncoming traffic behind him and/or in a hazardous range.

And for turning speed, if I made my left turn fast or slow, would that have any sway in favor or against my case?

Is it ok to contact the witness before I go in ICBC? I wasn't able to get a statement since the guy was in a rush to get to work.
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Old 07-19-2010, 11:59 PM   #16
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From the sounds of it, I am thinking the girl was in the left lane behind the left turner. She changed into the right lane, and when she pulled out from behind the other car...
I don't care what kind of wigged-out ricemobile she's driving, there's no way she could accelerate to the speed necessary to leave 15m skidmarks in that kind of distance.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:11 AM   #17
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I HAVE HAD IT.

WHen some people do get in an accident, they just blame on whoever nearby them first.

My car was once being hit from behind, and the driver blamed on me for making the left turn too slow -.-........

IT TOOK ME 6 WEEKS to be declared 0% at fault....
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Old 07-20-2010, 07:22 AM   #18
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i was involved in a Hit and Run, where i actually got the plate number, and the opposite party is trying to say they never hit me... when did it become good to do the Richard Nixon defense? and its not like there is lots of evidence to pour over.. shouldn't take the 5 1/2 weeks it already has
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Old 07-20-2010, 08:57 AM   #19
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you're going to be alright. you have all the evidence to show that it wasn't your fault and you have multiple witnesses and people to confirm you're in the clear. again, that's not guarantee but i can see you being ok.

what you CAN do is to call ICBC when this all settles down and you can ask the adjuster what really happened to the girl and they might tell you the story. report back if you do.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:11 AM   #20
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I don't care what kind of wigged-out ricemobile she's driving, there's no way she could accelerate to the speed necessary to leave 15m skidmarks in that kind of distance.
I never said she had to accelerate. If she was doing 60 km/h in the left lane, there is a good chance she was too concerned about changing to the right lane and never looked far enough ahead to see OP turning left in the opposite direction.

IIRC, that part of 41st is a slight uphill for the OP. And the hill kinda crest on the other side of Nanimo, so it is quite possible OP didn't see her because of the hill, and depending on what the witness says, ICBC could find him partially at fault for making a turn when it wasn't safe to do so.
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Old 07-20-2010, 11:20 AM   #21
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shoulda kept on driving instead of parking and going for a look.

nothing hit you why would you stop and park to see what the bang was? you one of those ppl who slow down on the highway to look at an accident on the other side meanwhile you fuck the flow of traffic
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:25 PM   #22
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I never said she had to accelerate. If she was doing 60 km/h in the left lane, there is a good chance she was too concerned about changing to the right lane and never looked far enough ahead to see OP turning left in the opposite direction.

IIRC, that part of 41st is a slight uphill for the OP. And the hill kinda crest on the other side of Nanimo, so it is quite possible OP didn't see her because of the hill, and depending on what the witness says, ICBC could find him partially at fault for making a turn when it wasn't safe to do so.
If she was moving that fast in the left lane, she still should have been able to see far enough ahead to see the OP turning, unless she was so close to the witness car that she had to make a really quick lane change... which would just further reinforce the theory that she wasn't paying attention.

41st does crest a bit just east of Nanaimo, but there should still be plenty of time to see an oncoming westbound car and determine whether or not one can make the turn safely... unless said oncoming car is speeding.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:36 PM   #23
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You did the right thing by hanging around and making sure all was well. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. (Especially since there was a witness that could have pegged you if you did decide to take off!) The outcome will be less serious than if you did take off and then get tracked down. Taking off implies a guilty mind too and I have no doubt that this can be held against you later in civil court where you could end up paying the whole bill yourself as ICBC can deny coverage for you and sue to recover damage to others when you fail to remain.

15 meters of skid is about 50 km/h if I recall correctly.

It would be interesting to know the outcome after you finish up dealing with ICBC if you felt like updating the thread.
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Old 07-20-2010, 12:48 PM   #24
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Question for OP. Did you pull over because you wanted to help out, or did you have any suspicion that it could have been related to you?
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:51 PM   #25
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but isn't it ok to leave if your car wasn't hit? if it was me, i'd just give a look and be on my way. how is it my fault if someone 'thought' i was dangerous and swirved to avoid me? unless she hit my car directly, i don't think i'd be the one to blame??

the fact that OP was making a left turn is tricky tho. left turners are always the ones to blame...
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