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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 08-28-2010, 09:17 AM   #1
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
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Ticket for Driving Without Lighted Lamp - Section 4.01

So I was leaving Richmond Centre yesterday at the Minoru exit and got pulled over shortly by the RCMP for not having my headlights on as I was leaving the parking exit.

The blue rectangle was where the rcmp car(stopped) was and I turned out and directly into the right turn lane to turn onto Westminster Hwy. When leaving the covered lot at 8:30ish pm, the parking exit is lit with pretty bright lights and as I face forward to leave I can see the sky is still pretty light in that direction after sunset(West). Completing the turn I see it's darker and proceed to turn on my headlights (scribbly red line area) after taking my hand off the wheel as I had them both on there during the turn. Roll up to the intersection, light turns green, I make the right, the officer turns on the lights after following me onto Westminster and pulls me over. I'm pulled over and sit in the car for what seems like a good 10 mins before he finally approaches my car. He asked if I knew I was driving w/o headlights on, I told him yes, but also that I turned them on when I felt it was darker than I originally thought(the sky was still lit though. He takes my DL/Registration and heads back to the car, anther 10-15 and he comes back with the ticket, $81 for not having my headlights on after dark.

I plead my case to him, still light out, wasn't completely dark, but he wouldn't cancel the ticket, says my lights must be on during dusk. Tells me if I pay early I'll get a discount and if I want to dispute it there are instructions on the back and then it'll go to court in about 1 1/2 years, and if I go to court he'll do his best to help me out, WHAT?!?!?!? Why not just shred the ticket then?

I go home and double check the MVA and Environment Canada:

4.01 A person who drives or operates a vehicle on a highway must illuminate the lamps required by this Division

(a) from 1/2 hour after sunset to 1/2 hour before sunrise, and
(b) at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, objects on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 m.
[en. B.C. Reg. 476/98, s. 2.]

Sunset according to Enviro Can was 20:07, clear skies, my ticket had the time written down as 20:48 however he didn't write the ticket until after pulling me over and making me wait, then grabbing my info and finally writing up the ticket. Seriously seemed like a nitpick ticket and I'm sure I was within that 1/2 hour window but don't know how I can exactly prove it. All said and done I pulled out at 9pm

What are the chances of getting the ticket thrown out during the dispute? Any other course of action I can take?
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Old 08-28-2010, 11:22 AM   #2
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Looks like you have pretty much constructed your defence. All that remains is to enter your dispute and see what happens.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:40 AM   #3
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Out of curiousity... what kind of car, and do you not have DRL's? No headlights at all?
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Old 08-29-2010, 01:39 AM   #4
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
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Stock 2003 Audi a4, the fog lights are the DRLs, officer said that caught his attention.
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:41 AM   #5
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Did you have any corner marker lights on at the time?

ie, were your tail lights on?

The lighting laws aren't just so you can see, they're so you can be seen.
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:51 AM   #6
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It's a nitpick ticket. just dispute it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 11:59 AM   #7
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Did you have any corner marker lights on at the time?

ie, were your tail lights on?

The lighting laws aren't just so you can see, they're so you can be seen.
No tail lights on until I turned on the headlights in the middle of the right turn lane.
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Old 08-29-2010, 12:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira112 View Post
No tail lights on until I turned on the headlights in the middle of the right turn lane.
While it may be a nitpick ticket, it is still within the letter of the law. It's like people pulling out of parking spots at 5km/hr while putting on their seatbelts getting ticketed for not having a seatbelt on prior to moving.

Does your car allow you to put leave the corner markers on without your low-beams? I know on mine the switch is off->markers->low-beam. I can leave it in the markers position since the lights shut off when the engine is off. My DRL's are low-beams at reduced power.

If for whatever reason I do forget to flick the switch from markers to low-beam, I still have almost full illumination all around. It won't help you know but if you can do that with yours then it might prevent future tickets like this.

Perhaps plead with the officer to allow you to buy $100 worth of spare bulbs so you are never without lighting again
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #9
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just to clarify, your fog lights were on at the time? shouldnt that be ok?
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:49 PM   #10
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
While it may be a nitpick ticket, it is still within the letter of the law. It's like people pulling out of parking spots at 5km/hr while putting on their seatbelts getting ticketed for not having a seatbelt on prior to moving.

Does your car allow you to put leave the corner markers on without your low-beams? I know on mine the switch is off->markers->low-beam. I can leave it in the markers position since the lights shut off when the engine is off. My DRL's are low-beams at reduced power.

If for whatever reason I do forget to flick the switch from markers to low-beam, I still have almost full illumination all around. It won't help you know but if you can do that with yours then it might prevent future tickets like this.

Perhaps plead with the officer to allow you to buy $100 worth of spare bulbs so you are never without lighting again
The problem with the ticket is that I feel it was within that 1/2 hour window after sunset but I cannot prove it.
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Old 08-29-2010, 02:50 PM   #11
My AFC gave me an ABS CEL code of LOL while at WOT!
 
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just to clarify, your fog lights were on at the time? shouldnt that be ok?
Yes, my fog lights were on at the time since they are the DRLs.
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Old 08-29-2010, 03:15 PM   #12
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Based on the time estimations that you used, he pulled you over 2-7 minutes before you even left the mall parking lot based on the time written on the VT. (you left 8:30-ish, you waiting 10 minutes for him to approach your vehicle and then it took him 10-15 to write the ticket.) I know that a 2 minute wait can feel like 5-10 minutes though, just saying that perception of time can be confused.

8:30-ish can easily be 8:37 (just as easily as it can be 8:25, i know), which would be a full half-hour after sunset.

From one perspective, driving along with no head/tail lights, driving past a police vehicle and then turning them on, is no different to driving along with no seatbelt, passing a police vehicle and then putting it on when you look at whether or not an offence has been committed.
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