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Originally Posted by taylor192
(Post 7115578)
The OBD will never be encrypted. The reason it exists is cause they wanted to standardize the systems so any mechanic can work on any car. In fact the opposite of what you're contemplating might very well happen - more standards and more compatibility. |
I don't know... I can forsee a move to make them so the ECU (okay, the freakin' supercomputer - ECU is so old-school now) is read-only and limited to only certain information unless you have the specific manufacturer equipment/plugin/license code/etc.
Like right now, any shmuck with a laptop can buy a USB cable and some software, plug into their OBDII port, and fuck around with the engine settings. It wouldn't surprise me a bit to see SOME manufacturers lock things down so the home tweaker can maybe SEE some of the parameters, maybe pull error codes... but any actual adjustments would require something (an interface, a code, a complete machine, whatever) that's either available only to authorized service shops, or costs a small fortune.
It's no different than car makers designing things to use specialized tools that are either stupidly expensive, or only sold to authorized shops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor192
(Post 7115581)
Qmx323, dvxo, and anyone else want to comment on exactly what is so complicated, sophisticated and computerized?
slammer has it bang on, you can do the majority of maintenance on any car without a computer. Brakes, suspension, fuel, filter, exhaust, alternator, battery, water pump, steering, rad, belts, bushings, plugs, coil packs, tires, ... and a simple OBD scanner ($50) will let you diagnose all but the most difficult/intermittent problems. |
A lot of that stuff is easy enough... then again, some are beyond the weekend warrior just by simple physical design. Case in point: both my current 2003 MPV work van and our previous '96 Grand Caravan, transverse-mounted V6... the rear plugs are nearly impossible to access without completely removing the intake, or the exhaust, or going in from underneath with a shitload of extensions and U-joints on your ratchet.
No, it's not impossible to do, but it's a FUCK of a lot of work for something that should be just basic maintenance, especially if your "weekend warrior" doesn't have a good range of tools.
Meantime, there are (or have been in the past) some ABS systems that get confused if you replace your own brakes...
Airbags can always be a danger if you're working on the interior, especially under the dash... when I was doing car audio, they told us one story of an installer who was poking around with a test light, looking for a live circuit to tie an alarm into... trigger the airbag, which hit his head and broke his neck.
So yeah, while there's lots of things you CAN still do, there are more and more that you probably SHOULDN'T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca
(Post 7115603)
I think another issue has to do with modern car design and engineering.
For example, engine bays are cramped these days which makes routine maintenance a time-consuming affair. Sure, components are designed to have higher lifespans, but when they fail, they take a longer time to replace (i.e. taking out several components to access the faulty one.) |
See above re: plugs in a transverse V6...
Of course, this isn't limited to new cars... ever had to change an alternator on a 3rd-gen (86-89) Accord? What an ordeal - you either have to remove an engine mount and jack up one end of the engine to make room to slip it out, or you have to drop it down, slide it across the crossmember, rotate over the rear engine mount, possibly removing a hose or two to make room...
Ditto the water pump: all the bolts for it are readily accessibly, save one, which is UNDER the timing belt cover. Short of taking off that section of cover with a Dremel, the procedure is to remove the front wheel, remove the inner shroud, remove the main pulley, then remove the cover itself, so you can FINALLY get at that last bolt.
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To me, what has happened all makes sense because auto makers have to continue to make money. The market demanded more reliable cars, so manufacturers responded. But, every car still needs servicing every now and again, so they've designed the mechanicals to make it intimidating to the average person in order to force that person to take his car in for servicing.
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I picture some shrimpy little Japanese engineer, still bitter over WWII and suffering from small-man syndrome, sitting in his office at Honda cackling at all the headaches these little design oddities will cause the North American mechanics...
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Also, modern cars have all sorts of sensors and electronic features of questionable utility which makes replacing them a time-consuming and expensive affair. The service indicator board and the check control panels on a mid-1980s BMW are bad enough - what about today's cars?
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Friend of mine has a 2000 Windstar. The computer that runs the dash lights (among other things) is buggered up, so that they're on all the time. To avoid draining the battery, he has to disconnect the battery every time he parks it. That means the ECU is always losing its data, so he can't AirCare it. Replacing the necessary computer is a $250-$300 proposition, and it has to be programmed by Ford to work with the specific van's anti-theft system; he can't just get one from the wrecker and just plug it in.
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I've also heard some whispers about a gradual shift away from on-board diagnostics - perhaps to more proprietary systems. Is there any truth to this?
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Taylor192 thinks not... I fully expect that while many manufacturers may stay with "open" systems, some WILL go to more proprietary ones.