BC passes Canada's first puppy sale ban

[FN-2199]

Looks like a lot of pet shops are going to be out of a lot of business.

The public will now get a chance to weigh in on the decision to ban retail puppy sales in suburban Vancouver, after three readings of the new bylaw were passed unanimously Tuesday night.

City councillors in Richmond, B.C., spent hours hearing from the public and debating the decision. The move, A Canadian first, is intended to curb the purchase of animals from puppy mills and stop people from impulsively buying animals.

Coun. Evelina Halsey-Brandt said a fourth reading, which finalizes the motion into law, will happen within the month. Pet store owners will then have until April 2011 to sell or remove all their puppies.

"People are going to learn that animals have the right to decency to have their health looked after," she told ctvbc.ca. "Now other cities will do the same thing."

Animal rights activists are trumpeting the council's decision, saying pet store puppies aren't awarded the same freedoms as dogs raised by reputable breeders.

"These pets that we're talking about that are shipped to pet stores they don't start out as pets, they're simply livestock," Rae Goodrich of the B.C. SPCA told council.

Marcie Moriarty, general manager of cruelty investigations for the B.C. SPCA, says the new bylaw is the first step in shutting down Canadian puppy mills.

"Any simple business model states that if you take away some of the demand, like these dogs, you'll have an impact on the production," she told ctvbc.ca.

The owner of Richmond's Pet Paradise, one of the only city shops that still sells animals, says the bylaw won't curb puppy mills because people can still buy dogs from unregulated agents on the internet.

Ernest Ang said he was not properly consulted by the city and feels his business has been unreasonably targeted.

"We're always totally against puppy mills. We are against cruelly to animals. We are pet lovers and that's why we're into this business."

Others opposed to the puppy ban say by shutting down retail sales the city will lose control of its ability to regulate the health of the animals that end up in people's homes.

"Why would you take a way the only source of puppies -- the only source that the public, the city, and animal protection officers are able to monitor?" asked Robert Church.

http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20101013/bc_puppy_ban_passes_101013/20101013?hub=BritishColumbiaHome
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[TheNewGirl]

Good. I hope they extend the ban to all other animals.

If people have to go to the puppy mills where they get these creatures and SEE how they're raised, then maybe they'll be more selective about where they get their animals and put some of these extremely cruel and inhumane operations out of business.

[Spectre_Cdn]

This by-law will only be in effect in Richmond though. You could still go to pet shops in Vancouver, Burnaby, Delta etc to buy a puppy. Unless/until the by-law propagates to other municipalities...

[hchang]

Originally Posted by Spectre_Cdn

This by-law will only be in effect in Richmond though. You could still go to pet shops in Vancouver, Burnaby, Delta etc to buy a puppy. Unless/until the by-law propagates to other municipalities...

Reminds me of the year they banned "unhealthy" foods in High School.

All I had to do was to walk next door to the community center

[Meowjin]

Richmond BC.

[Yuffa]

"Why would you take a way the only source of puppies -- the only source that the public, the city, and animal protection officers are able to monitor?" asked Robert Church.

Totally agree with this statement here. Not saying that I agree that people should buy puppies from pet stores for 3x the price....but some do because at least the store has an image to keep and laws to follow. Any other Joe Blow on the street could BS how great of a breeder they are and then disappear the next day.

[darkfroggy]

.

[winson604]

Pros and Cons for me. I'm not a fan of buying dogs from pet stores but if this drives it under ground it could be a lot worse since it ain't regulated. Ah wells nothings perfect I guess.

[TheNewGirl]

Originally Posted by Yuffa

"Why would you take a way the only source of puppies -- the only source that the public, the city, and animal protection officers are able to monitor?" asked Robert Church.

Totally agree with this statement here. Not saying that I agree that people should buy puppies from pet stores for 3x the price....but some do because at least the store has an image to keep and laws to follow. Any other Joe Blow on the street could BS how great of a breeder they are and then disappear the next day.

The puppies you're buying in pet stores are NOT pure breeds (even when they say they are) they don't come from reputable breeders (even when they say they do). I've worked in animal rescue on and off for 10 years and I tell you flat out that the sales of pets in pet stores only institutionalizes Joe Blow's BSing you.

At least now you have to look Joe in the eye and judge for yourself if he's telling you the truth rather then having to take the word of some 17 year old who has not a clue what they're talking about (even if they claim to).

I hope that all municipalities adopt this law.

[TheNewGirl]

Originally Posted by darkfroggy

A huge mistake. At least the puppies sold in stores are REGULATED and don't carry harmful diseases, viruses, etc.

When you buy from a store, you know it's not coming from some Joe Schmlo who picked up a stray on the street. While store conditions aren't the best, the dogs are clean and checked.

People are just going to go to Vancouver to get their puppies, Richmond is just hurting its own business.

This is not true at all.

I've documented cases of ill and misstreated animals in pet stores around the city as have a myriad of animal rescue and animal welfare agencies. From rabbits penned together male and female, from guinea pigs with horrible mange mites, from clearly ill dogs being ignored and so on. Kennel caught, genetic and contagious illnesses, fleas and many injury run rampant amongst pet store animals.

Regulations are all well and good but only work when they're actively overseen and the SPCA does not have the man power to have someone in every pet store every day to ensure this. Furthermore, not all municipalities even have SPCA offices so they even more rarely have oversight.

[q0192837465]

Well, people should adopt animals instead of buying new ones. I find that animals that were abandoned developed better temperament and are more loyal. It seems that they understand that they were unwanted and they will do everything to be wanted again. That's the experience I have with my pet.

[Soundy]

It's all pretty short-sighted and reactionary. This bylaw, and a lot of the statements supporting it, are horribly over-generalized and guilty of painting with a broad brush.

First of all, not all pet stores buy from puppy mills. Some may purchase indiscriminately from any source, but others do check on their breeders, and have staff who actually care about where their animals come from. The store we got ours from are run by animal lovers; the managers personally foster some of their puppies when they need extra care. They take pride in visiting their breeders personally and buy only once per year from any given breeder. Their affiliate store in Calgary even runs their own rescue society. Our third dog, we initially were fostering through them (and have now adopted); she had behavioral issues that we straightened out, while they paid for all her food, accessories, and medical care.

Second, other routes are no guarantee of avoiding puppy mills. A friend of ours, a couple years ago, bought a Maltese x Yorkie cross direct from a breeder who advertised in the local Delta paper... she thought she was being responsible in going direct to the breeder, but noticed within three months of taking her puppy, the same woman was advertising another litter... and has been doing so every few months in the same paper. Puppy mill? Maybe, maybe not... sounds a little hinkey to me, though. Yuffa nails this with, "Any other Joe Blow on the street could BS how great of a breeder they are and then disappear the next day."

Third, it's great to suggest getting rescue dogs from the SPCA or somewhere similar... what about the puppies that are already in the stores? Do they not deserve a good home too? This is one that really bugs me about the snooty types we run into at the dog parks who sniff at us when they find out ours came from the pet store: we've got three amazingly intelligent, friendly, well-socialized, loving, and generally well-behaved dogs here, who have a good and loving home and make a great little pack together. They're just as deserving of that as your hoity-toity purebred, and probably better-natured. Where they came from is not their fault, and no basis to deny them the same sort of care as any other dog.

I'm as appalled by puppy mills as anyone, but simply tarring all pet stores with the same brush and shutting them all down is not the way to combat them... to put it in more familiar terms for the populace here, it's like trying to stem the sale of cheap, knock-off, poorly-made, dangerous tires (for example), by shutting down all the tire shops in town and limiting people to either buying direct from the quality manufacturers, buying used from a wrecker... or going across the bridge into the next town and visiting a tire shop there.

[November]

Good on Richmond for passing this by-law. It's about time someone did something to put these puppy mills out of business.

Yuffa: There are plenty of reputable puppy breeders in BC that you can purchase healthy puppies from. The pet stores may look clean and have a reputation to keep up, but the puppy mills that they come from don't. It is not the ONLY source. Not even close. I'm not saying that all other breeders are completely ethical in the way that they are breeding dogs, but that is why people need to do their research and get to understand the breeder's business and the way things are run before they buy.

I know someone who purchased a "Purebred" chihuahua at that pet store beside Superstore in Richmond. If she wanted a certificate to prove that the dog was purebred, they asked her to pay a few hundred more. One day, she brought her dog back into the store to purchase some dog food and the employee asked her what type of dog it was. When she told the employee that it was a purebred chihuahua, the employee said "There's NO WAY that it is a purebred." And I agree. There are features on that dog that purebred chihuahuas don't have.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Soundy

A friend of ours, a couple years ago, bought a Maltese x Yorkie cross direct from a breeder who advertised in the local Delta paper... she thought she was being responsible in going direct to the breeder, but noticed within three months of taking her puppy, the same woman was advertising another litter... and has been doing so every few months in the same paper. Puppy mill? Maybe, maybe not... sounds a little hinkey to me, though.

My mother bred and showed dogs. We would have 2 or 3 litters a year and only kept ~20 dogs at any given time. For a larger kennel having a litter every other month seems reasonable.

Originally Posted by Soundy

Yuffa nails this with, "Any other Joe Blow on the street could BS how great of a breeder they are and then disappear the next day."

Most breeders operate out of their own residence, so it is not like they can just be gone tomorrow.

[TheNewGirl]

Soundy>

Reputable breeders do not sell through pet stores.

Responsible breeders vet the homes they place their animals in personally, and register their animals (if they are pure breed). They provide documentation, vet records and adoption contracts (usually stipulating if at any time in the dogs life you can't care for it it will be brought back to them and what ever agreements there are in regards to breeding or fixing the puppy). A reputable breeder will let you meet the parents of the dog (or at least mother, as the father could be a stud), and will have you spend some time with your puppy before deciding on them. They won't let you take them home that day, they will take some time for you to consider them, and them to consider you. In short, they care what happens to their animals.

If you want a pure breed dog, this is the kind of breeder you're looking for. If someone refuses to adopt a rescue animal but can't be bothered to take the time to find this - well they probably shouldn't be making a 12-18 year commitment to a living being.

Other wise you should go to the SPCA (or one of the plethora of breed specific or general dog rescues around. There are tons of them).

Really that's the end of it.

If you buy dogs from the pet store to 'save' them you're just giving the pet stores the money to replace them and damning another dog (or two) to fill it's place. You make more suffering. That's why the people in animal rescue get so upset about dogs that are bought from pet stores. Cause they look at the pet store dog and see the two that got crammed into the already too small cage it vacated.

The only way to stop the nasty cycle is to vote with your dollars - buy your food for your dogs from shops like Bosley's that don't sell any animals at all (and provide a selection of pet food that won't poison your animal as many of the commonly sold pet store brands do), and through legislation such as this that forces pet stores to change their model so that they work in conjunction with rescue societies rather than against them.

For a while there was a program that had outlets of the SPCA within various pet stores so that animals could be adopted through there but they were rescue animals and the adoptions followed SPCA procedure. This model works very well as a compromise, bringing people into the store to see the animals (which is part of why pet stores like having them... little timmy wants to go in and see the puppy!), but with over sight that avoids some of the pitfalls of pet store sales and ensures the animal's welfare is cared for. Personally, I would like to see this model come back.

Note> You're right not all pets in the pet store come from puppy mills, some of them are unwanted/accidental pregnancies, often stemming from missexed animals initially purchased from the pet store. This is very common particularly amongst the small animals sold in them.

[StylinRed]

it's not like bc is packed full of breeders of all types of dogs...

and breeders don't sell their dogs for cheap either...


so what are people left with? moe & curly who are breeding their Retriever in the backyard with any hound that comes on by? under any conditions?



what they should do is start fining Mills and placing major restrictions on pet stores

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

Other wise you should go to the SPCA (or one of the plethora of breed specific or general dog rescues around. There are tons of them).

Really that's the end of it.

If you buy dogs from the pet store to 'save' them you're just giving the pet stores the money to replace them and damning another dog (or two) to fill it's place.

This is all fine thinking for someone who's going out looking for a dog.

We weren't. We went to the store with no intention to get a dog, just looking for cat grooming supplies, and saw a puppy there that, frankly, touch our hearts. Spent money we really didn't have to adopt him. You're saying that just because he was in a pet store, we should have passed? Sorry, we don't live in your black-and-white world.

We weren't looking for a second one, either, but had gone back to the store to visit and shop for some more supplies when my wife fell in love with the second one.

The third was returned to the store because she had aggressive behavioral issues in her adoptive home... we offered to foster her and had her several months before we decided to adopt her. Or maybe by you, we should have just dumped her back into the system? Let someone else adopt her? She still needed a home... pet store or not, puppy mill or not, she still needed somewhere to go.

Note> You're right not all pets in the pet store come from puppy mills, some of them are unwanted/accidental pregnancies, often stemming from missexed animals initially purchased from the pet store. This is very common particularly amongst the small animals sold in them.

So what happens to them once you shut down all the pet stores?

Instead of simply blasting away at a symptom of the problem, they need to concentrate on the problem itself. You want to go after the pet stores, don't ban them selling animals... insist that they be licensed, and put policies and procedures in place to help guarantee they get their pets from "clean" breeders. Create an "approved breeders" list and require the stores to buy from them, for example. Simply banning it outright doesn't solve anything, and again, simply tars everyone unfairly with the same brush.

[RRxtar]

Why not instead of banning petstore puppies, why dont they create some form of regulatory system where the petstore has to show where the puppies were bread? Most puppy mills are 'known' as puppy mills, it wouldn't take much to make it illegal for petstores to buy from them.

One of the pet stores here in town sell puppies that people bring in when their dogs had a litter. They arent puppy mills.

now the only place for the average person to buy a dog is thru classifieds? sweet, now we can all buy dogs from random backyard breaders instead of dogs who come with a health guarantee.

[wstce92]

Ok, sorry, I`m sure this bylaw was passed with the best of intentions; but honestly, this does jack shit.

Until ALL of BC has banned pet stores, the void from Richmond closing their pet stores will just shift the demand to other parts of BC. Any possible puppies saved by the inability of Richmond to sell them, will just be negated by pet shops elsewhere increasing their shipment to meet the increased demand.

Until you can ban it all, you`re not helping anything, so why put people out of business and people out of jobs.

Not to mention, even if you CAN ban it all; people who run puppy mills aren`t just going to say "aww shucks, I guess I`m out of business". They`re in it obviously to make easy money; they`ll just find alternative methods of pushing their product, be it posing as breeders or the internet.

What needs to be done is just to EDUCATE people in BC on the horrors of puppy mills, not another stupid ban.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Soundy

This is all fine thinking for someone who's going out looking for a dog.

We weren't. We went to the store with no intention to get a dog, just looking for cat grooming supplies, and saw a puppy there that, frankly, touch our hearts.

This is part of the problem with stores that sell dogs/cats/furry little animals.

Spur of the moment, people buy that cute dog or cat or whatever animal then after a few days realize that they are not capable of owning such a pet and either try to sell it or go to the SPCA.

My wife and I both work. We are only home for 10 hours a day. I work early and she works late, but I pick her up and drive her home. We went to the SPCA to try to adopt a dog and they flat our refused us because of how little time we spend at home. And we both agreed with them, yet we can walk into a pet store/CL dog breeder and fork out the $$$ and buy one.

I'll just stick to my hammy's from rescue centers.

[cressydrift]

^ /thread!

[Great68]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

My wife and I both work. We are only home for 10 hours a day. I work early and she works late, but I pick her up and drive her home. We went to the SPCA to try to adopt a dog and they flat our refused us because of how little time we spend at home. And we both agreed with them, yet we can walk into a pet store/CL dog breeder and fork out the $$$ and buy one.

My Aunt and Uncle were looking for a couple of new dogs 2 years ago. Most of their previous dogs were from people who could no longer take care of their dogs and had to give them up (Usually from acquaintances of friends etc).

Anyways they decided to look to the SPCA, except that hey found out the number of conditions and rules the SPCA had to adopt the dogs was absolutely rediculous.

So they ended up getting a pair of beautiful purebred german shepherds instead for half the effort. The SPCA basically fucked themselves, because their property is 6 acres of doggy paradise, and they have no children so the dogs are like their kids and treated as such.

[fliptuner]

All I can say is that 5 of the 6 dogs I've ever owned were from the SPCA and were/are awesome companions. Currently, I have a 13yo Rotty and a 3yo Yorkie.

A couple of years ago, my GF and I adopted the "purebred" Yorkie pup from the SPCA, after she (and about 30 other dogs) was seized from a puppy mill in the valley - took about 3 months of red-tape to get her. Of all the dogs I've owned, she's the most skiddish I've ever seen. We work very hard to keep her on track, well socialized and healthy. Sometimes it can be a lot but I guess that's what it takes when you want to "save" an animal.

We plan on getting a PB Dogo soon. It going to take a long ass drive (11 hours each way) and the dog definately won't be cheap but I know we're getting a good dog to start with.

[The_AK]

Taking the "Pet" out of "Pet Store"


gg