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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 10-15-2010, 08:44 PM   #1
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DriveSmartBC - You Blew a Fail, What Now?

After all the publicity concerning BC having the toughest impaired driving penalties in Canada you decide to drink and drive. You are stopped by police, blow a fail reading (BAC > 100 mg% or .10) on the screening device and are now in serious trouble for the first time in your driving career. What happens under the Immediate Roadside Prohibition (IRP) Program?

Effective immediately, you are prohibited from driving for a period of 90 days, the count starting at midnight on that day. There are no exceptions for work or any other circumstances.

The vehicle you are driving goes to jail for 30 days. It doesn't matter who the owner is, perhaps affecting your company or meaning you will have to pay rental fees while the vehicle sits idle. Towing and storage fees are your responsibility.

The IRP comes with a $500 monetary penalty, and once it ends, there will be a $250 driver's license reinstatement fee.

Now it's time to sign up for the Responsible Driver Program. You will be assessed and directed to one of three programs suited to your needs. The tuition fee is $880.

Finally, once you are back on the road you will need an ignition interlock installed in every vehicle that you drive. You can lease one for $1,730 for the year for each vehicle. In order to keep the vehicle running, you will have to supply it with samples of your breath to show that you are not impaired by alcohol.

Overall, it's 90 days without driving, 30 days of vehicle impound, schooling, having a device check your breath regularly while driving and an estimated $4,000+ minimum cost. Is it really worth it to take the chance?

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Old 10-15-2010, 09:00 PM   #2
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that's why i have one of these

http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...=1&topnav=&s=1


I know it's not as accurate as police breathalyzers, but it at least gives you a general reading of what your BAC is, which is the most important thing of all.
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:24 PM   #3
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I wouldn't be trusting my DL and 4 grand of my money to a $45 Costco breathalyzer. Police are trained properly and use instruments that cost a lot more than those...and they are calibrated by trained calibrators every 14 days usuing the same SAS solution used in the Datamaster. Even then the test must be properly administered with knowledge of the previous drinking patern. You may get an inaccurate reading that is artificially low because of inaccurate sampling factors and your readings could also be going up after your test. How about having a decent meal before drinking, consuming no more than a single, glass of beer or small glass of wine per hour, waiting an hour after your last drink ?
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:35 PM   #4
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How about having a decent meal before drinking, consuming no more than a single, glass of beer or small glass of wine per hour, waiting an hour after your last drink ?
Because, realistically, that is not going to happen.

Besides, a single glass of beer/wine is well below 0.05 limit for an average male my size. At least with a BAC measurement device I can get an idea of what my level is.

I agree with your inaccuracy reading absolutely. These devices cost nothing to what the VPD have on hand. But at least by taking 3-5 blows before driving and than taking the average of those readings, you are a little better off.

Example:

Maybe I blow a 0.06 on my device. I don't feel drunk, but I don't want to pay 4 grand. I don't get into the car and drive, but go to a cafe to have snack/coffee instead. 45-60 minutes later, I blow again and I get a reading of 0.03. I get into my car and drive home.


EDIT

someone ran an experiment on one of these BAC devices and got these inaccuracies
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:55 PM   #5
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A little bit confused, but, there are 3 key BAC's to keep an eye out for?

.05, .08, and .10. With .10 being the harsher penalties. Is this correct?
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:26 AM   #6
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.05 in the threshold for the pre-existing privincial section 215 suspensions, .08 is the federal level of impairment under the criminal code. The roadside screening devices are set to show a "pass" from 0mg% to .49 mg%, a "warn" from .50m g% to .99 mg% and a "fail above .10mg%. You could actually be "legally impaired " with readings from .08 to..10mg% on the screening devices and only get the provincial suspension unless you are tested back at the Police station on the Datamaster and the actual readings above .08mg% are registered. That is the chance you take if you go back to the Datamaster.


The provincial penalties get you fines, the federal criminal code penalties include a criminal record and all that means...and the provincial impounds etc as well.
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:33 AM   #7
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They might as well just ban drinking and driving altogether. With such strict punishments and no real clear way of knowing what your BAC level is how can you even enjoy that beer knowing there's a chance it can literally ruin your life if you blow over.
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:35 AM   #8
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Because, realistically, that is not going to happen.

Besides, a single glass of beer/wine is well below 0.05 limit for an average male my size. At least with a BAC measurement device I can get an idea of what my level is.

I agree with your inaccuracy reading absolutely. These devices cost nothing to what the VPD have on hand. But at least by taking 3-5 blows before driving and than taking the average of those readings, you are a little better off.

Example:

Maybe I blow a 0.06 on my device. I don't feel drunk, but I don't want to pay 4 grand. I don't get into the car and drive, but go to a cafe to have snack/coffee instead. 45-60 minutes later, I blow again and I get a reading of 0.03. I get into my car and drive home.


EDIT

someone ran an experiment on one of these BAC devices and got these inaccuracies

I'm not sure what the chart means but it looks like the readings were wildly inaccurate? The problem in calculating your levels with these devices is that an improper sample or in accurate device, can give you a false sense of safety. A poor "blow" may not give you the deep lung air required to get the real reading, taking a drink and testing 5-10 minutes later will not show that your latest drink is actually increasing your BAC level and waiting the time after may actually give you a higher BAC, not the lower you wanted. Police are trained to give proper tests on accurate instruments, under controlled circumstances....spending $45 and betting your future seems like something you should be doing at a 649 booth, not a bar.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:12 AM   #9
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They might as well just ban drinking and driving altogether. With such strict punishments and no real clear way of knowing what your BAC level is how can you even enjoy that beer knowing there's a chance it can literally ruin your life if you blow over.
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Funny thing, wonder why this was never a problem until the new penalties were imposed for the existing levels of impairment ?
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:13 AM   #10
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I understand what your saying I just don't like the uncertainty of not knowing if I'm breaking the law or not. I can control my speed on the road but if I have a couple of drinks, wait two hours then drive, I may not feel buzzed at all but I can't tell what my BAC is off the top of my head. Yet they want to give people the option to guess pretty much. I'm not much of a social drinker anyways so it's not a big deal to me but I can see a lot of people messing up
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:04 PM   #11
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yet, if you use a device that is inaccurate, then who is going to responsible? What if you use the device, and it tells you that you are sober, and you drive, and get pulled over and get charged, or worse, you drive and get in an accident?
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:08 PM   #12
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Go to a library, grab a copy of the Criminal Code from the shelf and start reading at Section 253. As you keep reading, you'll find what is accepted as an approved screening device. I haven't read through it in a while, but I'm fairly confident the $45 Costco device isn't included as an approved screening device. Based on that, you, the driver, will be the one responsible.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:19 PM   #13
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Nowhere in my posts am I stating that this device is a substitute for the ones VPD carry, in fact I state the opposite.

But if you don't think drivers should have a device to double-check their BAC before getting behind a wheel uncertainly, then that's asinine.
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:24 PM   #14
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And nowhere in my or zulu's posts do we say that. However, if people go out and buy these cheap, uncalibrated and unreliable devices and judge their driving ability soley on those, then get pulled over, fail an ASD/get charged and say "well, my device told me I could drive", they need to understand that is not a valid defense.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:55 PM   #15
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Nowhere in my posts am I stating that this device is a substitute for the ones VPD carry, in fact I state the opposite.

But if you don't think drivers should have a device to double-check their BAC before getting behind a wheel uncertainly, then that's asinine.
My view is that drivers shouldn't be uncertain going behind the wheel. There are many formulas that can calculate how quickly a man/woman can process alcohol. err on the side of caution and drink one less than that formula, and you should be ok. If you have to wrack your brain figuring it out, then don't jump behind the wheel. If you want to have a few more drinks and don't want the headache, then plan ahead and don't drive. I bought one of those fun breathalysers as a gag gift for someone, but in no way, should that be used to figure out if one is capable of driving.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:52 PM   #16
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It seems to me that most of those complaining about the laws are the ones that live out in the burbs and drive downtown to drink. They don't want to pay $50 in cab rides, yet are willing to blow $50 on booze.

As I've gotten older I've gotten less "cheap" and nolonger understand this. Plus I'd rather stay local and drink, then I can walk home or a cab is < $10.
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:56 PM   #17
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I would rather go downtown where all the fun is then stay local.

But I guess I am just young and like to party.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:30 PM   #18
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I agree with the laws and regs. HOWEVER. I don't agree with how the city itself deals with it.

I live in Vancouver. I have buds that are DD's. I can pay $25 at the most to taxi from DT to my place.

So I havea couple less shots than usual, or a few less beers, etc. to pay for that.
I strongly believe too, that hey, if you're at a club buying girls drinks and shit, you should be able to hold back 3-5 shots and use that as cab fare.

NOW. The problem with that system is: If you're in Surrey. You're screwed.
Not every1 has $100 lying around for a cab. On the other hand, is it fair to have a guy living in Poco to be stuck doing nothing in PoCo? Not really.

Which brings me to the main point of this rant: If the province/police want ppl to stop the drinking/driving. Provide alternate solutions to get home.


Skytrains shut down around 1:30 or so. It's BS. Considering most businesses DT on a weekend night close at 2-3. I'm not saying the trains should open until 5am or anything, BUT, given the amount of money ICBC and translink make (or rips off, depending on how you look at it), they should be able to use some of that on keeping the trains open a LITTLE later on WEEKEND nights.

How about 3 or 4am on Saturday and Friday nights? maybe 2am on Sunday nights? (instead of 12:30). That way a lot of ppl can get to where they need to go, and instead of forking over $50bucks for a taxi, they'd spend $10.

Night busses you ask? They're a F'ing joke. Too long, too little stops, too few and far in between.
HOWEVER, put a few on the further areas in conjunction with the later running trains, then you'd have ppl that would be willing to take them. N busses in the middle of buttfcknowhere doesn't really help anyone out.

That way, ppl are LESS prone to drive a far distance DT. And would train a lot more. It would cut traffic and congestion, not to mention parking issues.

I can tell you now, I'd totally rather do that. Hop on a train, get downtown in 10minutes, and just walk somewhere. For god's sake, it takes me 30+ minutes to get from central Richmond to Downtown and find parking. Use all that gas, all that frustration, then pay another $10 for parking! That makes me a LOT less motivated to go downtown for anything.

Now when I started taking the Richmond line, it's 15minutes. MAX. $5 RETURN TRIP.

No headaches, no parking anger. Hell, I end up being a LOT more relaxed, with some extra spending money every month, saved from unused gas and parking change.


Seriously. I think ppl in this province need to get a grip on the realities on how shit works. You want to enforce D&D laws? Fine by me. You want to MINIMIZE it on even a bigger scale? Don't just ask the police to enforce. Make a change at the core of the issue. The rest will be easier. On the people AND The police.

Sorry for the long rant.

-end rant-
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:03 PM   #19
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and if you are going to discourage the use of $45 costco breathalizers, how about making effective ones available to the public? Or pointing us towards ones that work?
Its in EVERYONE'S best interest that a driver know he is over the limit, as accurately as possible, before they make the decision to drive. Why dont our tax dollars pay for drinking and driving ALTERNATIVES like Ballpeenhammer suggests. Skytrain, subsidize taxis, help with the fucking solutions?
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:09 PM   #20
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and if you are going to discourage the use of $45 costco breathalizers, how about making effective ones available to the public? Or pointing us towards ones that work?
http://www.alcopro.com/mm5/merchant....oduct_Code=206

This is the one we use.

Don't forget to purchase the items listed at the bottom of the screen, too, as you'll need to calibrate it regularly.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:20 PM   #21
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Which brings me to the main point of this rant: If the province/police want ppl to stop the drinking/driving. Provide alternate solutions to get home.
I don't agree. If you want to go out and get liquored, it's your responsibility to see that you get home safely, not anyone else's.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:46 PM   #22
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majority of ppl drive to dt because they're not in an area where taking transit is going to work and taxi is too expensive. If there were later trains, then there would be a lot more ppl who instead thinking "hmm, maybe I'll risk it tonight", will be more inclined to think "hmm, cops are out in full force. Let's just take the train since it's now available".

In TO, and NYC, it works so much better. more ppl transit than drive.

It's minimizing existing damage.

I could've phrased better, but a better transit system would minimize ppl from driving to DT to party.


Although I do agree with the laws, but I believe the government and their enforcers should work WITH the people. Not against them.

Opening the trains for ppl to get home a little later on a weekend is hardly wrong or selfish. if anything, it should improve things financially, environmentally and on the matters of safety, significantly.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:47 PM   #23
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and if you are going to discourage the use of $45 costco breathalizers, how about making effective ones available to the public? Or pointing us towards ones that work?
Its in EVERYONE'S best interest that a driver know he is over the limit, as accurately as possible, before they make the decision to drive. Why dont our tax dollars pay for drinking and driving ALTERNATIVES like Ballpeenhammer suggests. Skytrain, subsidize taxis, help with the fucking solutions?
That will never work because a lot of ppl will just try to cut corners.

Seriously, take transit, stay at a hotel, whatever. It's not worth the headache.

4 ppl in 1 hoteel downtown wouldn't be more than $25/person/night
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:16 AM   #24
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You Blew a Fail, What Now?
Post on Revscene, asking how to dispute the ticket..
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Old 10-20-2010, 12:27 AM   #25
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In TO, and NYC, it works so much better. more ppl transit than drive.
in TO, the Subway runs until 1:30, just like here. And try taking public transit to the outlying suburbs, it isn't that great. and NYC, most people I know take a taxi because they're much cheaper - but cheaper is also a relative term because partying in NYC can be so much more expensive than here.

My view is that if you believe that partying downtown is so important, move to an area closer. Sure, prices are higher, but you have to weigh what's more important to you. Just because you want both cheaper housing, AND accessibility to downtown, it doesn't mean everybody else has to pay for it.
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