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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 10-26-2010, 04:11 PM   #26
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Er, actually... the people who should pass could get a warn, or people who are in the warn range could fail.

The possibility of that happening is extremely low, given the margin of error.

You have no problem finding potential faults... how about some potential solutions? Would you rather just do away with ASDs and drunk driving laws altogether? Just let people go out and get blitzed and cruise the streets at will?
Pass, warn, whatever, you're still losing your car.

Possible solution?

Why don't our ASDs provide a BAC readout instead of Pass, warn or fail?
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:40 PM   #27
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Why don't our ASDs provide a BAC readout instead of Pass, warn or fail?
That wouldn't change the margin of error, though, will it? Why not just calibrate it so it doesn't show "warn" until it hits .0525? Would that make you happy, or would you then just have to find some other problem with it?
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Old 10-26-2010, 04:48 PM   #28
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Why not just calibrate it so it doesn't show "warn" until it hits .0525? Would that make you happy, or would you then just have to find some other problem with it?
That would be a start.

Now, how long does it realistically take for someone with a BAC of .0525 to reach .00? Three days? I don't think so.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:02 PM   #29
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That would be a start.
And how do you know they're not?

The whole point of this thread is that you're allowed to request a second test... statistically, that reduces your chances of an incorrect reading. Even gives you a few extra minutes to sober up some more.

But of course, they could allow you to re-test a dozen times, and average the readings, which would virtually eliminate any chances of an incorrect reading... but you'd still find a problem with that, wouldn't you?

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Now, how long does it realistically take for someone with a BAC of .0525 to reach .00? Three days? I don't think so.
No, the point of the impoundment isn't to give you time to sober up... it's to SMARTEN you up. Even the previous 24-hour suspension was more than enough time for almost anyone to get sober (if you had so much alcohol in your system that that you weren't sober by then, you were probably dead anyway). The point is to beat into people's heads that DRINKING AND DRIVING IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

When you don't get the point... you need to be beaten harder.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:20 PM   #30
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And how do you know they're not?
We know that they're not because as Skidmark has kindly pointed out - there is a potential for someone with a passing BAC to blow a warn.
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Old 10-26-2010, 06:07 PM   #31
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Why don't you go blow a .475, lose your car for three days and get back to me
except I don't drink more than 1 beer or 1 glass of wine if I know I'm driving. If you want to chance it, you go ahead. There will always be a tolerance issue when it comes to the law. Your car speedometer has a tolerance when it comes to measuring your speed, as does the radar/laser that the police officer uses. When is the tolerance low enough that you won't whine about it?

and btw, you still didn't answer the question. What do you propose they do instead? Do you propose a range where you only get a warning, because the device may be showing a false positive? You dodge questions as much as Soundy does.
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Old 11-02-2010, 11:58 PM   #32
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I have to ask - if someone blows a fail at the roadside, why is it that they need to provide a second sample on the datamaster back at the police station?
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:46 AM   #33
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Because the Datamaster gives a more specific reading with actual numbers involved...instead of..."something over .08" from the ASD. It may show a reading of .95mg% and that would mean that you would not get charged for "over .08" as Crown doesn't proceed with charges until at least 100 mg%.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:40 AM   #34
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Because the Datamaster gives a more specific reading with actual numbers involved...instead of..."something over .08" from the ASD. It may show a reading of .95mg% and that would mean that you would not get charged for "over .08" as Crown doesn't proceed with charges until at least 100 mg%.
Is an ASD alone admissible as evidence in court or does a warn/fail on that simply give the officer grounds on which to demand a sample on the datamaster?
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:59 PM   #35
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An ASD reading can be used to show consumtion and the presence of alcohol in the body, as grounds to demand a Datamaster sample, as supporting evidence of impairment itself but not for +.08 impaired driving charges. Section 253 has 2 included individual charges...impaired driving and over .08. Usually a driver processed on the Datamaster is charged with both but Crown usually drops one of the 2 charges.
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Old 11-03-2010, 02:15 PM   #36
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Why doesn't crown proceed with charges until the BAC reaches 100 mg%?
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Old 11-03-2010, 04:32 PM   #37
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^^^

I'd say it's to remove any doubt that you're over .08 because of people that like to bitch about tolerances.
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Old 11-03-2010, 05:27 PM   #38
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They can really answer that fully but they want what Presto said and they want an easily winnable case. Like speeding tickets...write a ticket for 1 kmh over and its legal but write for 20-30 over and it's easier to convict.
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Old 11-03-2010, 06:30 PM   #39
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^^^

I'd say it's to remove any doubt that you're over .08 because of people that like to bitch about tolerances.
Seriously, there are people that actually do that??
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:55 PM   #40
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They can really answer that fully but they want what Presto said and they want an easily winnable case. Like speeding tickets...write a ticket for 1 kmh over and its legal but write for 20-30 over and it's easier to convict.
So because it is too hard to obtain a conviction in the courts for a .05 charge, the judicial process is simply bypassed in favor of an immediate 3 day roadside impoundment.

The police know that it is too difficult to win these cases in court so why even bother with it when you can simply administer the sentence upon charge at the roadside?
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:49 PM   #41
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You cannot get a .08 conviction unless the level is over .08. You cannot CC charge for .05 but you can charge for impairment and that does not require levels, just symptoms of actual physical impairment.
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