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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
You didn't read the Macleans article, and you commented on what you thought it was about.
I blame the OP for not linking to the original article , It looks like a summery of it and if you read that alone its as if the Asians are taking all the good grades away because they only study in life, not because of the university experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber
Most young Asian people choose to go to university, but very few enter technical school. Do Asians not apply to vocational schools, because they're afraid of the competition? Of course not. The majority of Asians aspire to careers that require a university education, hence the high number of Asian university students. Many Caucasians prefer vocational careers, and as a result there are more of them pursue technical certificates.
I'm in university, and I've never had the slightest concern that the scholastic success of other students would result in my courses becoming more difficult. Also, I work, I have a social life and I maintain a 4.1 gpa, its not just shit-heads who spend all there time in the library who succeed.
So you think the majority of Caucasians dont have the ambitions to acquire high end jobs? Is this because studying hard in their youth is seen as wasting the best times of your life.. or is it an environmental factor like their up bringing and or a dumbing down with culture?
This article is so ridiculous i expected it to come from the States. Not sure what people have to gripe about, most of my friends are Asian and they party their asses off.
As the Asian families start to become 2nd, 3rd, and 4th generation Canadians they will adapt more to a "Canadian Culture." as an example when Asians started to come to Richmond in masses was around when I was starting Highschool. The football team got cut b/c there werent enough white people to play but that paved the way for badminton and ping pong.
Not to mention a lot of friends studied/partied in Highschool and Uni and then moved back to HK to work. Where they still work hard and play hard.
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Probably because he tells it like it is and knows hockey better than you two dipshits? People respect his opinions, not like you two dipshits? He has a solid income, not like you two dipshits?
its not the hardcore studying high GPA kids that are working minimum wage.
its those party kids that coast though high school with barely a B and pick poli sci or history that end up at starbucks. these people are the ones that cheapen university degrees.
and you know what? they're mostly non-asians.
True. The "hardcore" Asians who barely speak a lick of English yet get good grades in Math and Science don't work at Starbucks. In fact they don't work anywhere in Canada because they can't find jobs in Canada.
They have to come back to Asia to work.
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Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.
True. The "hardcore" Asians who barely speak a lick of English yet get good grades in Math and Science don't work at Starbucks. In fact they don't work anywhere in Canada because they can't find jobs in Canada.
They have to come back to Asia to work.
they don't speak english yet they get in universities and get good grades in a english spoken school..
what are the people who were born here and speaks the language's excuse?
Math and Science geeks get technical jobs where soft skills are secondary and sometimes not even considered. Eg.. if you write code all day, your English needs to be adequate, not good. Having both is ideal, but it tends to work better than the other way around.
Think of it this way.. you might not think they're social or fun to be around and you're probably right, but they think they're social and they have fun being around each other.
that's so stupid, i went to UBC, did economics & accounting, the most asian of all subjects and i normally came in top 5-10% of students... and i worked enough to pull in enough to pay FULLY for my education, + i was never single during uni, so i had to make time for a woman...
shit ain't hard if you're not an idiot... guess the ones who use this excuse are just that
on teh flip side, i did hate feeling like an outcast b/c i don't speak mandarin or cantonese - that has to change, we live in canada, and have 2 official languages, english & french, universities should mandate those languages as spoken in common areas (if i went to china, i'd try my best to communicate in the native language... maybe i have too much respect for hte country i'm in?)
White people are complaining Asian Fobs have no personality.
White people needs to stop whining .. having more asians in university actually makes you white people look better
if you go for an interview at a big corporate company ... and if it was between you and a chinese guy with the exact same credentials i bet 8/10 times they would hire the white guy over him
and imagine this .. you getting in a school filled with asians who are known to be study freaks and u coming out on top .. that actually boosts ur credentials no ?
I blame the OP for not linking to the original article , It looks like a summery of it and if you read that alone its as if the Asians are taking all the good grades away because they only study in life, not because of the university experience.
So you think the majority of Caucasians dont have the ambitions to acquire high end jobs? Is this because studying hard in their youth is seen as wasting the best times of your life.. or is it an environmental factor like their up bringing and or a dumbing down with culture?
I didn't say anything about Caucasians not having the ambition to acquire high end jobs; I said, a larger majority of Caucasians prefer vocational jobs in comparison to Asians. A contractor with a vocational degree is by no means a person entitled to less respect, when compared to an individual with a degree in commerce. The skill set required to perform either job is immense as are the financial rewards, but they are very different styles of work. Asians, as a result of their environmental influences, generally prefer the style of work accompanying a university degree, so more Asians attend university.
Looks like the toronto star did a similiar article about asian kids being forced to go to school and I guess Macleans took theirs down too.
Anyways heres a link to the reposted article. (didnt know whether is should paste the whole article or not)
on teh flip side, i did hate feeling like an outcast b/c i don't speak mandarin or cantonese - that has to change, we live in canada, and have 2 official languages, english & french, universities should mandate those languages as spoken in common areas (if i went to china, i'd try my best to communicate in the native language... maybe i have too much respect for hte country i'm in?)
Agree with what you said, cuz if you went to China now and you spoke non Mandarin, and you make no effort to at least try, locals would not respect you. That's the gripe I have with hongers IN UBC. I mean its natural for people who are similar to be grouped together, but a lot of them make absolutely no effort to speak English at all.
I didn't say anything about Caucasians not having the ambition to acquire high end jobs; I said, a larger majority of Caucasians prefer vocational jobs in comparison to Asians. A contractor with a vocational degree is by no means a person entitled to less respect, when compared to an individual with a degree in commerce. The skill set required to perform either job is immense as are the financial rewards, but they are very different styles of work. Asians, as a result of their environmental influences, generally prefer the style of work accompanying a university degree, so more Asians attend university.
A professor, doctor, engineer, architect and lawyer get more respect and status then any vocational degree.
I agree with Wongtouski's post (#61) for why Asians prefer the style of work accompanying a university degree, but for Canadians, I believe Hollywood's transition from Oxford Blues to American Pie is one of the main reasons.
Rslater, agreed with your first post there. The degree has become the new High School diploma, hence why I plan on doing my masters at some point and from a "reputable" school so that my piece of paper looks good.
lol, I have a theory that UBC doesn't want to give all their spots to asian fobs, example being the large emphasis on UBC BCom supplemental, and med school supplemental applications as opposed to grades. These application methods successfully weed out those antisocial asian people that just study 24/7 and give a more "fair" chance to those who've been doing other stuff such as volunteering, playing sports rather than focusing just on studying.
Correct me if I'm wrong but vocational jobs are considered in China to be the work of "lesser people," no? If so, that's very likely why most Asians tend to shy away from those sort of jobs because they fear the stigma that may be attached to them and the loss of respect from their peers.
I went to University but never with the intention of graduating at the top 5% of my class mainly because in order to continue my career path, I needed that $10,000 piece of paper stating that I knew what I was doing, despite the fact that I had already proven to my coworkers and bosses that I was more than capable of my job. However, when I was in school I noticed that the Asian portion of my class were the ones that acted in the standard stereotype - they studied long and hard and never mingled with those outside of their race - yet everyone else of other races hung out with one another, regardless of if they were white Canadian or brown Italian. The cliques really separated the classes. Not only that, most of us managed to pull off the same grades that the Asian kids did, despite partying to two in the morning the day before a test. It's not that we were in easy courses, it's just that we knew the difference between focusing your life on studying and mixing school with fun. And that's where I believe the article catches a good point - University has a stigma attached to it, deserved or not, of being a fun place to be. Most people go because they want to make something of themselves, yet they also want to be able to let loose every once in a while. However, they feel that with a higher percentage of studious students that fun aspect will disappear. It's not that they're being racist against Asians (the word Asian could just as easily be changed to white Christians if they had a similar mentality), they just want to be able to go to a school where the majority of students aren't anti-fun.
As for the comment about international students taking spots from local kids... well, I have a couple comments about that. First off, schools can make a shit load more money off of an international student (think upwards to 3-4 times as much), so of course they're going to milk that cow for what it's worth. Secondly, the requirements for international students aren't always necessarily as high. When I was considering a career change, I applied for a very prestigious school in England. Now, my grades weren't fantastic (they definitely were lower than a 3.98gpa), but they weren't what you'd consider terrible as well. Despite this, I was accepted into this school without even an interview. It was quite obvious they simply wanted my money since while they could take in a student from London for around $5000/semester, they would be sucking me dry at the rate of $20,000/semester. Ouch.
I think some people are reading too much into the article.
A professor, doctor, engineer, architect and lawyer get more respect and status then any vocational degree.
I agree with Wongtouski's post (#61) for why Asians prefer the style of work accompanying a university degree, but for Canadians, I believe Hollywood's transition from Oxford Blues to American Pie is one of the main reasons.
Keep this in mind when you read my post. When I began university I was doing pre-med, and now I'm planning on becoming a professor. I have no bias to argue against those professions.
No one commits a decade of their lives to become a doctor, engineer, architect, lawyer or professor, because they want respect and status; people choose those careers for personal fulfillment and the financial rewards. The respect and status those professions receive is almost entirely within their own fields. When was the last time you read about Calum Mechie's brilliant insights, on George Orwell? Never. Thats, because profs don't get that much respect outside of their given fields. Successful people with vocational degrees, are entitled to and receive a nearly equivalent amount of respect to someone with a university degree, since respect is primarily given within fields.
The respect given by society is what your referring to, and that has fuck all to do with what letters you have behind your name. That respect has to do with the car you drive, the size of your house and where you live.
I am not going to comment on university admission practices or student preferences as they vary across different people.
One observation is that Canadian schools are absorbing a lot of foreign talent. I am talking about graduate degrees. At SFU, 1st = Chinese, 2nd = Iranians...
Only about 8 of 30 students in my year are Canadian citizens. Of course, top GPA of the class is a Chinese girl. Do I care? No. Am I discouraged to study because a machine from China will always beat me? Not really, as long as I try my best to be the better than average. Posted via RS Mobile
True. The "hardcore" Asians who barely speak a lick of English yet get good grades in Math and Science don't work at Starbucks. In fact they don't work anywhere in Canada because they can't find jobs in Canada.
They have to come back to Asia to work.
In the end, you will get the majority of these FOBS going back to China to work for small/mid size companies since they lack english skills and real life skills. On the other hand you will get a handful who will work their asses off in English and career development and achieve high income for big firms like PWC/Google/Honda.
On the other hand, you will have a bunch of gwai lo's who will continue to blame and bitch about how asians took their spot for going to university and making themselves feel better by saying college is cheaper. On the other hand, your gonna get a small handful of hard working gwai lo's that will beat most of their asian counterparts in getting great jobs because they have excellent English and work experience.
I am not going to comment on university admission practices or student preferences as they vary across different people.
One observation is that Canadian schools are absorbing a lot of foreign talent. I am talking about graduate degrees. At SFU, 1st = Chinese, 2nd = Iranians...
Only about 8 of 30 students in my year are Canadian citizens. Of course, top GPA of the class is a Chinese girl. Do I care? No. Am I discouraged to study because a machine from China will always beat me? Not really, as long as I try my best to be the better than average. Posted via RS Mobile
I'm exactly the same way.
If I only get 80% on a midterm, but I was as well prepared as possible, I'm satisfied.
If I only get 80%, and I wasn't prepared for it, because I partied all weekend, I'll be pissed at myself!
I could care less if I'm in the top or bottom 5% of my class, as long as I do my best.
On the other hand, you will have a bunch of gwai lo's who will continue to blame and bitch about how asians took their spot for going to university and making themselves feel better by saying college is cheaper. On the other hand, your gonna get a small handful of hard working gwai lo's that will beat most of their asian counterparts in getting great jobs because they have excellent English and work experience.
University doesn't guarantee you a career. College is actually something you can take and have a job ready for you when you graduate. And how the fuck do you get "excellent work experience" right out of college / university???? Do you even have post secondary education???
University doesn't guarantee you a career. College is actually something you can take and have a job ready for you when you graduate. And how the fuck do you get "excellent work experience" right out of college / university???? Do you even have post secondary education???
He didn't state "right out of college." And besides, I imagine he meant that because they have better language skills, they'll be more easily employable, hence a better chance at gaining real life work experience in their chosen profession.
by work experience I mean working P/T and co-ops. "how the fuck" do you get a job ready for you after college? Are you implying during your graduation an employer is gonna be waiting for you to come in and work for them? LOL
And yes, university doesn't guarantee a career, but you can say the same any other schools. There was an article about how there are thousands of janitors with PH.D degrees, but does that mean anything? Nope.
University gives you greater oppertunites for bigger companies... when do you ever see the big 4 accounting firms recruiting at VCC? probably never.
I am not going to comment on university admission practices or student preferences as they vary across different people.
One observation is that Canadian schools are absorbing a lot of foreign talent. I am talking about graduate degrees. At SFU, 1st = Chinese, 2nd = Iranians...
Only about 8 of 30 students in my year are Canadian citizens. Of course, top GPA of the class is a Chinese girl. Do I care? No. Am I discouraged to study because a machine from China will always beat me? Not really, as long as I try my best to be the better than average. Posted via RS Mobile
Reminds me of how Ivy league schools capping the admissions for non US citizens.
Sure post-secondary education does not guarantee you will get a good job, but it opens more doors and which one you walk through depends on yourself
I think the most important thing on getting a good job is networking. Its soooo much easier to get a job if someone refers you into it. Don't matter if you have experience or what not, NETWORK.
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, It looks like a summery of it and if you read that alone its as if the Asians are taking all the good grades away because they only study in life, not because of the university experience.
