REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2012, 01:32 PM   #376
My homepage has been set to RS
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,402
Thanked 900 Times in 387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundy View Post
^That article says they're having the same problem now on the Alex Fraser, and it's been there for 20 years, apparently without this happening before.
I can see it happening there... although the design of the PM is a bit different with all the bridge stays going over the lanes.

It's not going to happen everytime it snows... likely a mix of snow/rain/freezing then rapid warming.
Advertisement
__________________
FOR SALE: 14'' MR2 MK1 wheels with 90% rubber $130, FD RX7 Transmission $200, Hitch Mount Snowboard/Ski rack w/ THULE clamps, locks $200. PM me for details!

If this is still in my sig, it's still avail.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #377
MG1
Fathered more RS members than anybody else. Who's your daddy?
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 24,719
Thanked 11,497 Times in 4,892 Posts
Damn, I guess it's the Mission Bridge for me today. I was about to leave for home when a co-worker told me about the bridge being closed.
__________________
Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.

Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.

"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
MG1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #378
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,964
Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,123 Posts
Of course, the peanut gallery on News1130 has not hesitated from whining about the bridge's design flaws.

The people in this city sometimes...
Posted via RS Mobile
Tapioca is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 12-19-2012, 01:51 PM   #379
Hypa owned my ass at least once
 
Traum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Paradise, BC
Posts: 6,505
Thanked 6,231 Times in 2,482 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca View Post
Of course, the peanut gallery on News1130 has not hesitated from whining about the bridge's design flaws.

The people in this city sometimes...
Posted via RS Mobile
Can you blame them though? The bridge is a billion dollar project that has just finished and hasn't even been in operation for a month, and now it happens. Apparently, similar incidents have occurred in the US as well, so it makes you think if the engineers have really done their homework.
Traum is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 02:16 PM   #380
Rs has made me the man i am today!
 
k3lv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 3,187
Thanked 1,841 Times in 386 Posts
If it wasn't a big deal then they wouldn't have shut it down. Billion dollar bridge, implemented tolls, and is now advertised as "the easy and efficient way", and they have to close cause the design team and engineers neglected that we are prone to having snow once in a while.. what a bitch.
k3lv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #381
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,642
Thanked 10,372 Times in 3,904 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1 View Post
Damn, I guess it's the Mission Bridge for me today. I was about to leave for home when a co-worker told me about the bridge being closed.
you and everyone else congesting my streets in ridge


StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #382
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 12,136 Times in 3,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by falcon View Post
I can see it happening there... although the design of the PM is a bit different with all the bridge stays going over the lanes.
True. Actually, with the Alex Fraser, I wouldn't be surprised that wind blowing chunks off the cables would be a factor... that design does also have the two cross-pieces between towers, over the roadway. The other similar types of bridges - Pitt River and Golden Ears - don't have any portion of the structure crossing over the roadway.

Quote:
It's not going to happen everytime it snows... likely a mix of snow/rain/freezing then rapid warming.
Yeah, I'd think if it was really that common an issue, we'd see a lot more of it on the other bridges - wouldn't take much wind to blow pieces off and onto the road. Still, with the stays actually going over the road, anything falling off is inherently more dangerous, and they'll have to do something to fix it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 02:49 PM   #383
Revscene.net has a homepage?!
 
604nguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 1,247
Thanked 497 Times in 133 Posts
" Hey lets design the bridge have all the suspending cables cross over the entire span of the bridge! "


I wonder what they're going to do to fix this? Heat trace each suspension cable? lol
__________________
E70 4.8i
604nguyen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #384
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,964
Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum View Post
Can you blame them though? The bridge is a billion dollar project that has just finished and hasn't even been in operation for a month, and now it happens. Apparently, similar incidents have occurred in the US as well, so it makes you think if the engineers have really done their homework.
So, do you build something that takes into account every freak weather pattern?

Or, do you risk manage and save money and time in the process?

I'm not sure of the choice myself. I challenge someone to give a reasoned answer.
Posted via RS Mobile
Tapioca is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
This post FAILED by:
Old 12-19-2012, 03:08 PM   #385
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,642
Thanked 10,372 Times in 3,904 Posts
^^^^ we're a rainforest with storms throughout the year, we get snow every year, is it inconceivable to get what we got last night once or twice a year? not at all (especially since what we got was nothing)
StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:10 PM   #386
I don't get it
 
bloodline129's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 433
Thanked 132 Times in 48 Posts
Do it right the first time... Especially a damn public bridge lol... Now they gonna hire more smart asses to figure out a solution for the first fail :P
Posted via RS Mobile
bloodline129 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #387
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 4,020
Thanked 6,687 Times in 1,624 Posts
Translink is now selling these:



inv4zn is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 03:18 PM   #388
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: vancouver
Posts: 812
Thanked 723 Times in 140 Posts
Any idea when the bridge will be open up again?
striderblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:23 PM   #389
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 4,020
Thanked 6,687 Times in 1,624 Posts
between 5 to 7 according to "officials."
inv4zn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:24 PM   #390
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,964
Thanked 2,451 Times in 1,123 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodline129 View Post
Do it right the first time... Especially a damn public bridge lol... Now they gonna hire more smart asses to figure out a solution for the first fail :P
Posted via RS Mobile
People are always quick to assume that the people behind these projects are idiots.

In the public sector, any time public money gets spent for anything, questions get asked hundreds of times before anything gets approved. This issue was probably raised but, based on what has happened, it appears that the design was risk-managed.

I know most of you probably disagree in light of the results, but sometimes, you can't put a square peg into a round hole. The design of the bridge was probably the most cost-effective considering the requirements (width of the span, etc.) I imagine that heat tubes would have added many millions to the project.
Posted via RS Mobile
Tapioca is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #391
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 36,274
Thanked 14,238 Times in 5,599 Posts
Bitch bitch bitch
Posted via RS Mobile
Hondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #392
Head Moderator
 
Lomac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1982
Location: Great White Nor
Posts: 22,661
Thanked 6,462 Times in 2,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
^^^^ we're a rainforest with storms throughout the year, we get snow every year, is it inconceivable to get what we got last night once or twice a year? not at all (especially since what we got was nothing)
No one is denying the fact that we get snow down here, lest of all the engineers. What we normally don't get, however, is a night of snow and freezing ice, only for it to warm right up after a few hours. Typical weather would allow the ice on the bridge to slowly warm up over time, allowing it to drip off... not fall down in chunks.

No, this is not the first time it's happened in the past (I can remember it happening only once on the old Port Mann in the past), but it happens so infrequently that it's almost a non-issue when it comes to bridge designs down here.
Lomac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:39 PM   #393
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
yray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: PENIS
Posts: 4,182
Thanked 4,062 Times in 1,249 Posts
okay, lets take down this bridge and build a new one
__________________
There's a phallic symbol infront of my car

Quote:
MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
bcrdukes yray fucked bcrdukes up the nose

dapperfied yraisis
dapperfied yray so waisis

FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
FastAnna i really cant
FastAnna yray i cant stand you
yray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 03:49 PM   #394
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 12,136 Times in 3,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca View Post
I'm not sure of the choice myself. I challenge someone to give a reasoned answer.
Posted via RS Mobile
This is Revscene, don't hold your breath.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed View Post
^^^^ we're a rainforest with storms throughout the year, we get snow every year, is it inconceivable to get what we got last night once or twice a year? not at all (especially since what we got was nothing)
Actually, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the situation of ice building up and falling off is found to be a VERY rare result of this specific combination of weather conditions. A half-degree change in temperature either way... a slight breeze while the snow was falling... a fractionally different mix of rain and snow... the smallest thing could have changed and potentially none of it would have happened.

That's the whole idea of risk management: you put in all the known factors, you determine the likelihood that a certain scenario will occur, you figure out what it will cost to mitigate that likelihood... and proceed from there. For all we know, this possibility was known, the chances of it occurring were calculated, and it was deemed it would cost more to prevent than it was worth.

And then again, maybe it's true, with all the hundreds of similar cable-stayed bridge designs in the world, nobody actually thought of this possibility.

Obviously, in standard RS fashion, everyone assumes the latter and that these things spend years on the drawing board under the pencils of barely-trained monkeys rather than several levels of high-priced, well-schooled engineers.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 03:52 PM   #395
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 12,136 Times in 3,361 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomac View Post
No, this is not the first time it's happened in the past (I can remember it happening only once on the old Port Mann in the past), but it happens so infrequently that it's almost a non-issue when it comes to bridge designs down here.
When you think about it, all the old "arch" style bridges have plenty of structure over the roadway as well - lots of room for ice and snow to build up and then fall off. The only significant difference here is that the supports are all sharply sloped, rather than horizontal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 03:58 PM   #396
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
JesseBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Here! n There!
Posts: 4,149
Thanked 498 Times in 222 Posts
Look at it this way... For not using the bridge, you saved a couple of bucks...go to the dollar store and buy something...russell p. will be proud of you...
Posted via RS Mobile
JesseBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #397
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 12,136 Times in 3,361 Posts
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 06:42 PM   #398
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
 
StylinRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,642
Thanked 10,372 Times in 3,904 Posts
supposedly the eastbound tacoma narrows bridge had to be closed last winter because of the same issue

it was also built by Kiewit

the tacoma narrows' cables don't cross the lanes though





Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundy View Post

Actually, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that the situation of ice building up and falling off is found to be a VERY rare result of this specific combination of weather conditions. A half-degree change in temperature either way... a slight breeze while the snow was falling... a fractionally different mix of rain and snow... the smallest thing could have changed and potentially none of it would have happened.

That's the whole idea of risk management: you put in all the known factors, you determine the likelihood that a certain scenario will occur, you figure out what it will cost to mitigate that likelihood... and proceed from there. For all we know, this possibility was known, the chances of it occurring were calculated, and it was deemed it would cost more to prevent than it was worth.

And then again, maybe it's true, with all the hundreds of similar cable-stayed bridge designs in the world, nobody actually thought of this possibility.

Obviously, in standard RS fashion, everyone assumes the latter and that these things spend years on the drawing board under the pencils of barely-trained monkeys rather than several levels of high-priced, well-schooled engineers.
well they do do tests and simulations for ice build-up; and we know now that similar cases have occurred with cabled bridges built by the same company; i agree though that it was probably determined that they would take the risk of it happening

Last edited by StylinRed; 12-19-2012 at 07:00 PM.
StylinRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 07:10 PM   #399
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,721
Thanked 12,136 Times in 3,361 Posts
It's not the fault of those who actually built it, either - if anything the problem lies in the actual design, particularly of the cable sheaths, and the material they're made of, all of which allowed the ice to build up. The ones building it have little or no say in that - they're given the plans and they follow what those tell them to do.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-19-2012, 09:08 PM   #400
resident Oil Guru
 
LiquidTurbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 7,716
Thanked 10,457 Times in 1,794 Posts
The 'perfect' bridge could have been built. But the same people whining about this would instead be bitching about the $20 toll.

It is rather unlucky. I suspect this sort of thing won't happen again anytime soon, even in another snowstorm. It was just an unlucky sort of variables. We'll just have to see.
LiquidTurbo is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net