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Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Technical Discussion > Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech

Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech This forum is brought to you by The Speed Syndicate (TSS) in Burnaby.
Discussion of maintaining your engine, transmission, differentails, rear ends, and mods associated with "driveline" parts..

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Old 01-18-2011, 12:08 PM   #1
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Prelude help

1998 prelude sh @158ks

Recently developed a shuddering/slow vibration feel during 2nd gear acceleration. It's not prominent in other gears but 2nd especially with a heavy foot it will shudder until about 3000rpm and will disappear.

When I switch to second. Accelerate slowly then the shudder is almost invisible. This happens on straight or turns. Clutch was replaced at 96k with an aftermarket exedy clutch. The car has been brought to a shop and drive shafts replaced. Problem is still there. They also pointed out one wheel had a bend. Wheel was replaced. Still there.

At highway speeds the car is smooth and quiet. The shop ran out of ideas. They could not justify a problem with tranny or clutch as everything works as it should.

2nd issue that recently happened which I don't think is related to the Prev problem is the clutch pedal sticking to the floor after long drives. It will return after awhile. Reservoir is full but fluid is dirty. I'm having the master replaced this Thursday.

Speaking with Honda and a few other shops. Some mentioned clutch and one mentioned an early symptom of tranny failure. I'm gonna drop by Honda for a test drive soon but has anyone experienced this? Anything similar? Insights or teoubleshooting?

My initial guess is a bad clutch or install. I don't want to replace the clutch if nor necessary and I surely don't wanna be cond into remanning the transmission.

Anything helps !
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:22 PM   #2
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Are you sure it's something on the drivetrain that's causing this and not something else? CV joints? bearings?

I guess a good question is if you can feel things from only particular corners of the car.

When vibrations happen in older cars, it could be a number of things. I had some stuttering at the engagement point and a replacement of engine mounts fixed it as the engine was no longer seated properly to factory specs.

I would start trying to find the cause of the problem by isolating what's not the problem. Rev the engine through the rpm range in neutral to see if the engine has anything to do it with. Most likely not but it's still worth checking. go down a hill (a non-busy safe hill) in neutral as this will accelerate the car. If that's not the case then you would have narrowed it down by a lot.
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Old 01-18-2011, 02:40 PM   #3
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also googled this:

http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...d.php?t=331796

Really not sure what kind of stuttering you're talking about but you'll just have to narrow it down a bit more. Like I said in my previous post, vibrations/stuttering can be happening for a number of reasons. It has to be seen/felt first hand to really know when it happens and pinpoint where the car is having problems.
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:11 PM   #4
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are you accelerating from 2nd gear from an extremely slow speed? (pretty much dead stop)?

my prelude does a slow growl/vibration if i say... put it into 4th gear when my car is EXTREMELY SLOW. (like ~20-30km/h), and try to build up speed from 4th gear instead of dropping back down to 2nd or 3rd. it will do this vibration thing until my car starts to go faster, and my RPM rises a bit.

this being my first manual car, i dont know if what im describing happens to all cars or not ;p
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:31 PM   #5
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^^^ that kind of situation happens to all cars. engine is being bogged down with load and if the rpms are too low then the car would stutter and eventually stall. I doubt that is what the op is having problems with as he is putting the car through heavy acceleration through the gears.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:03 PM   #6
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I've been driving manual for over 10 yrs and it's not due to high gears during low speedbogging. That I know is normal. I also read the link and my problem is slightly different as it only happens on second gear acceleration. Not other gears. No CELs either.

Vibration or shudder I mean is the whole car shakes rapidly but not in particular parts of the car that I can pin point. Motor mounts may be a culprit but I hope Honda can find out. The last shop inspected the suspension during driveshaft replacements. Nothing they found unusual.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:56 PM   #7
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That link from mrgoodbar refer's to the egr ports plugging. Was also dicussed last month here on RS. http://www.revscene.net/forums/p0401...t-t633611.html
I found the egr hesistation/stumble happens while cruising or light acceleration and around 1500 - 2000 rpm. You can easily check to see if the egr passages are clogged by pulling vacuum on the egr valve with a vac pump or suck on the hose, or stick your finger under the egr valve and give it a lift open. Engine should stall instantly. NOT stumble and fumble or feel like its going to stall. It should stall instantly.

To me the problem sounds more like drive train, within the axles or cv joints. but without me actually driving the car, its too hard to say.
By any chance is you prelude lowered? I've seen a few lowered SH's wear out inner cv boots.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:15 PM   #8
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Yes it is on HnR race springs. I'd suspect after heavy research either the cv shafts or motor mounts. The shop that replaced the sriveshafts did not notice anything wrong with the cv but then again I don't know how interested they were in fixing the actual problem. I'll be visiting Honda tomorrow for a test drive.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:27 PM   #9
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while you're in there, tell them to check your hubs; might as well since they'll be taking your wheels off. If you're on race springs and stock dampers, chances are something was experiencing accelerated wear.

Since springs are the case, I'd think that the mounts would be less likely to be worn. If they are indeed shot and you were ok with your ride before, stick with OEM mounts as polyurethane may give you some unwanted stuttering due to increased stiffness when you engage the clutch and won't be the best for ride quality.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:52 PM   #10
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in the past, i have replaced drive shafts for vibration problems, very similar to the way you're explaining your vibration problem. Most of the problem shafts i replaced didnt show any problems by just visually looking at them. The few that did show a physical problem, was when after i pulled out the shaft from the car, i noticed the cv joint was binding while working the joint around. even then, i wasn't 100% sure if i pin pointed the problem as in the joint or in the shaft itself.
I have also replaced new shafts (remans from aftermarket) for vibrations.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:44 PM   #11
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Just finished with Honda. They test drove it and hoisted it up.

Good news is the engine tranny and sriveshafts are in great shape. Bad news is the sh system stands for shitty. It's causing a play where the drive shaft connect which will need a rebuild or replacement. Honda quoted $6500 before labor to replace. WTF.

I'm gonna look for a transmission place to rebuild. Is it possible to remove the sh system altogether?
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:55 PM   #12
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Shitty deal. labour is gonna be a bitch. 6500 before labour probably means that it's gonna be a big and long job. At this point, would it really be worth fixing if it's that much? I mean you can probably get another (possibly newer) with the amount of money and time spent on labour.

the short answer to removing the SHitty system is yes it can be done. But is the work worth it you ask? probably not. you can find more details here (apparently someone did it):

http://www.preludeonline.com/f60/base-vs-sh-229597/
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Old 01-20-2011, 06:10 PM   #13
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Well I'm keeping in consideration that this quote is from Honda. Where a stupid vtec sticker cost me $80 and eBay sells for $10. I want it fixed so I'm gonna get quotes from diff transmission shops for a rebuild. I am not paying 6500 or close. I'd rather give my car away for free and the chances if that are well zero.

I'll keep this updated
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Old 01-20-2011, 07:01 PM   #14
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Btw the labor quoted was only 5 hours. Their taking a new atts unit and slapping it on as they can't find remanufactured ones. Which is probably why the cost is high.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:24 PM   #15
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EGR ports /thread

google, if you need any help pm me, i have a 97 lude sh as well, the stuttering is typical in preludes, 3k hesitation is whats its called
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:05 PM   #16
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I've contacted garage 5 and they're gonna try to source a used unit and put it on for me. I'm hoping it's successful and it wouldn't cost close to hondas quote.
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Old 01-21-2011, 05:09 PM   #17
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Okay so I found a used atts unit (100ks) for about $500 + labor. Labor is a bitch but I'm gonna contact Honda for book time.
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