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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 01-29-2011, 12:35 AM   #26
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I didn't know it was illegal to do this (no signs say you must STAY, only STOP) since I see people doing this all day.
it's a red light, what's so hard to understand? the track signal lights are the flashing ones...
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Old 01-29-2011, 02:42 PM   #27
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That's the one. If you move forward about six clicks, you'll see there's a SECOND STOP LINE after the tracks, immediately before the intersection: http://goo.gl/maps/Swiy - just like it used to be at Broadway and Arbutus (before they removed the tracks).

I agree, this really sounds like a bogus ticket and I think you have a valid dispute. Cops here have commented on the situation at Broadway and Arbutus before and stated that it's legal to proceed to the second stop line after coming to a full stop at the first one... this situation doesn't appear to be any different

Edit: overhead view here as well, clearly showing a second set of stop lines before the intersection: http://goo.gl/maps/WJ7t
The difference is at Broadway & Arbutus there is not a second light and stop line sign at the first stop line. Look at the Braid intersection and you'll see a traffic light and sign that says "stop line" at the first stop line.

I don't agree with giving a ticket though, that's just being greedy for something that is not unsafe.
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Old 01-29-2011, 11:08 PM   #28
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there used to be a light on broadway at the first stop line, before the tracks... guessing they took that out when they paved over the tracks.
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Old 01-30-2011, 06:37 AM   #29
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One day, when you are the second or third car at that same stop and the train comes ... you'll understand why you got that ticket.
Train always wins!

We found a piece of brain sitting on the truck of one locomotive, when a guy decided to try and beat the train - and lost.
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Old 01-30-2011, 09:35 AM   #30
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I've never been to these intersections you guys mentioned but it sounds like the pedestrian crosswalk on fraser and 37th. Whenever it turns red I always stopped and wait for it to turn green. So I'm allowed to drive through if I made sure there is no one crossing after coming to a complete stop?
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:01 AM   #31
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37th still forms an intersection with Fraser, so yes, you do have to wait for the green.
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:13 AM   #32
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Holy crap... I've always wondered about the Hwy 91 and Shell road and decided to play it safe and just stay stopped at the first line. Didn't know that it was actually illegal to cross to the second red light!
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Old 01-30-2011, 10:26 AM   #33
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It's not.

Long ago, when ICBC ran a forum on their website, our own skidmark posted the following advice (as I recall, in response to someone asking about the old pedestrian crosswalk by BCIT (which is no longer there - there's an intersection now, but there used to be a crosswalk with pedestrian-controlled light mid-block)):

A solid red light means two things: you must come to a complete stop, and you may not enter the intersection. Once you've stopped, if there's no intersection and it's safe to proceed, you may do so.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:32 PM   #34
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Train always wins!

We found a piece of brain sitting on the truck of one locomotive, when a guy decided to try and beat the train - and lost.
Sounds like he wasn't using it anyway. Or he wasn't wearing his high visibility jacket.
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Old 01-30-2011, 01:49 PM   #35
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37th still forms an intersection with Fraser, so yes, you do have to wait for the green.
What? How is 37th and Fraser Street and intersection, when 37th is blocked off to all vehicles?

The definition of an intersection as posted in the previous page is:

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"intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of the 2 highways that join one another at or approximately at right angles, or the area within which vehicles travelling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict;
Unless bicycles are considered vehicles.

I wasn't able to find the definition of vehicle.
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Old 01-30-2011, 03:43 PM   #36
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What? How is 37th and Fraser Street and intersection, when 37th is blocked off to all vehicles?
I was going from memory, been a while since I've been in that area... I see from Google Street View that is IS now blocked off.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:11 PM   #37
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Holy crap... I've always wondered about the Hwy 91 and Shell road and decided to play it safe and just stay stopped at the first line. Didn't know that it was actually illegal to cross to the second red light!
A few months ago I was driving near the end of the pack of about 20 cars and I see the "prepare to stop" sign flashing so everyone is slowing down to stop. Then from somewhere in the middle of the pack, I see flashing blue and red it's a cop car driving up the shoulder to the front of the light. A Cl500 was the only car that crossed the line and the cop went behind it. Lights turn green and the Mercedes gets pulled over.
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:04 PM   #38
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You still have to come to a complete stop at the first light/line before proceeding to the second one.
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Old 02-02-2011, 11:22 AM   #39
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http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.177208,-123.102343&spn=0.005485,0.00604&z=17&layer=c&cbll=49.177208,-123.102195&panoid=s9M1YEN_ITCGZOPaHqM0NA&cbp=12,314.78,,3,0.29
For the Shell/91 argument, there is a sign that says "stop here in red", just proceeding is illegal.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.251588,-123.152661&spn=0.005504,0.00604&z=17&layer=c&cbll=49.251562,-123.15259&panoid=bhLlgrAsIdgYQ8Tc3efy_Q&cbp=12,241.6,,3,-1.93
Here's King Ed/Arbutus, there is a sign that says "signal stop line" as well as a traffic light.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.257275,-123.152434&spn=0.001376,0.00151&z=19&layer=c&cbll=49.257275,-123.152434&panoid=E8msiSHmln3MN1CnElBU-A&cbp=12,288.4,,0,6.6http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.261013,-123.152404&spn=0.011007,0.012081&z=16&layer=c&cbll=49.260998,-123.152262&panoid=5AUvr_IeJovuaggMHfN-iQ&cbp=12,317.83,,0,30.58http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.263814,-123.151846&spn=0.011006,0.012081&z=16&layer=c&cbll=49.263824,-123.152163&panoid=NUpaOYFlzrno70kYM5eYeA&cbp=12,302.47,,1,0.26
Here's 16th/Arbutus, 12th/Arbutus, and Broadway/Arbutus. Notice there is a traffic light and stop line, yet no sign indicating you must stop at this line. I would assume the traffic light means you have to stop at the stop line.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.234581,-123.155107&spn=0.044051,0.048323&z=14&layer=c&cbll=49.234584,-123.155196&panoid=B4F2M2vriwRdiV_FuZO1PA&cbp=12,312.55,,0,13.13
Here is 41st/Arbutus. This has to be the most confusing yet. There is no dedicated signal or sign for the first stop line, yet there's tons of signals/signs very close.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=49.227071,-123.154678&spn=0.044058,0.048323&z=14&layer=c&cbll=49.227144,-123.154942&panoid=HdzhJNkX35u1y--MKQzZgQ&cbp=12,112.7,,0,14.91
49th/Arbutus is more clear. There are 2 stop lines, yet no traffic signal or sign for the first stop line. There is a railway signal. Thus I would only stop if the railway signal was on.
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Old 02-02-2011, 02:05 PM   #40
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The whole Arbutus corridor is a mess, because the tracks are no longer in use, and haven't been for ages. In the Street View pics, they've been paved over where they cross Broadway... but in all cases, the extra lights and lines are still there, which is pretty much equivalent to having a stop light and stop line in the middle of a block for no f'n reason.
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Old 02-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #41
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I saw something stupid today. I think it was southbound on hamilton heading towards davie.

there is a firehall, and the area in front is all whited out to not block the hall driveways, but it's right at end of the block before the intersection.

I was driving down, entered the shaded area, and they light turned red... as this point I either have to stop in the shaded area at the edge of the intersection, or run the red. so dumb.

yes I stoped.
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