REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 12:23 PM

My mom's hot water tank bit the bullet yesterday. Water leaking out of tank at a slow, but steady rate. When I got to her house, the basement was semi flooded. Not much damage, fortunately. It was 4:15 when I got there. I called a plumbing outfit and they told me it would be roughly $1200.00 for a re & re.

Overtime difference was $150.00. Not bad, I thought, so I went ahead with it. The guy got there at around 6:45 and everything was cool. I had turned everythng off and had the tank completely drained by the time he got there, which made his job much easier (cut one hour off the projected 2-1/2 hour job). At the end of the job, he tells me the exhaust vent from the water tank to the main b-vent is too small. Code asks for 4 inch. The previous tank had a 3 inch b-vent. Anyway, he tells me he cannot do it then, but can come back to make it 4 inch the next day or I can install it myself. 5 inch to 4 inch adapter and a couple of 90 degree elbows. No big deal, right?

Today, I get a call from the boss and he tells me they have to do the work. I said, sure, if you do it for free. Nope, it will cost you. I said, fine, I'll do it myself. He then tells me it's their ticket number that's on the line. I said, fine I'll take it to court if need be. Give it free or I do it myself.

He said I will have to deal with the inspectors from the city when they come, which they do anyway. Is this just the plumbing company trying to make more money? Does the code ask for 4 inch?

The new tank is a John Woods 33 Imperial gallon, natural gas, hot water tank. Hopefully someone on RS is a plumber and can answer these questions.

Honestly, the exhaust to the b-vent takes all of three screws at each joint.

cityvanluder · 02-10-2011, 12:28 PM

same thing happened with my mom, we just went with an electrical one, and all we had to do was upgrade some of the electrical wires running through the house to code, cost maybe 100$ to upgrade or we could have done it ourselves

SpuGen · 02-10-2011, 12:28 PM

Pretty sure you can DIY.
I replaced the tank myself with some help from a family friend who does this stuff on the side. I don't have a ticket. You're just responsible if it blows up or something.

By help, I meant he brought the tank over, gave me instructions, and checked the connections after.

But it's a Vent. Just DIY.

Matlock · 02-10-2011, 12:33 PM

I'm no plumber, so I will just start by saying I know nothing... but does sound fishy that any inspector would need to be involved if there's no permit taken out to begin with.

Hmm... Cash grab??
Good luck with your diy projects

Sincerely,
electrician apprentice guy
Posted via RS Mobile

Great68 · 02-10-2011, 01:03 PM

It's a liability thing, your plumber does not want a chance that he could be found at fault if you were to install the vent incorrectly.

I don't blame him. You're venting combustible gas exhaust so there is a life safety consideration here.

murd0c · 02-10-2011, 01:12 PM

Go tankless if they are planning on staying there for a while. Only way to go and it will be a big money savings over time.

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

It's a liability thing, your plumber does not want a chance that he could be found at fault if you were to install the vent incorrectly.

I don't blame him. You're venting combustible gas exhaust so there is a life safety consideration here.

Which is why the inspectors come around. Which they will, I'm sure. My question is, how can anyone screw (pun intended) up a simple thing as that?

OK, I have seen some pretty dumb things in my lifetime. Some by reputable professionals, LOL.

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murd0c

Go tankless if they are planning on staying there for a while. Only way to go and it will be a big money savings over time.

I agree, but my mom is like close to 90 years old. As much as I would like for her to live forever, I don't think she will be in the house for much longer. She's the only occupant and I can't keep checking up on her. Plus, the house is pretty damn old.

Doubl3_H · 02-10-2011, 02:25 PM

let me check the code book for you

but the code changes depending on your jurisdiction

do you guys have a furnace?

and is the furnace exhaust tie into the tanks exhaust in the b vent?

Doubl3_H · 02-10-2011, 02:35 PM

and he changed 1200 for a re and re for a 40gallon tank??

and john wood are the shitties ones out there.

i know its too late, but i recommend bradford white

C5_Ryder · 02-10-2011, 02:47 PM

4 inch is standard, make them pull a permit. You can do it yourself (vent part)

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doubl3_H

let me check the code book for you

but the code changes depending on your jurisdiction

do you guys have a furnace?

and is the furnace exhaust tie into the tanks exhaust in the b vent?

Yes, furnace is right beside the hot water tank and the exhaust from the furnace is same diameter as b-vent - 5 inch.

Anything else I need to know from the code book? I'll double check when I go get the parts.

Also, thanks, everyone, for your suggestions and replies. Much appreciated.

Doubl3_H · 02-10-2011, 04:40 PM

the minimum required vent size for residential hot water is 3 inch.

the minimum required vent size for residential furnace is 4 inch, unless its a high efficiency furnace then you need to vent it with 636 cpvc pipe.

if your venting both your furnace and hot water tank together, then your vent size would be minimum 4 inch. And you need to vent it in the order; furnace first then hot water tank.

i do not have the hvac code book, and i cant find anything in my plumbing code. I'll ask my hvac guy tomorrow at work.

hope that helps.

pm me if you have further questions

godwin · 02-10-2011, 05:08 PM

I am not sure you save that much money, considering the low price of natural gas (check Encana's stock).. and the modifications you need to do to move over (depending on the age of the house)

There is also a new breed of water tanks called hybrids.

Another thing about having a hot water tank in GVRD, since we live in Earthquake prone zone.. when and if the "big one" do hits.. the tank can provide you with a reserve of drinking water.

Quote:

Originally Posted by murd0c

Go tankless if they are planning on staying there for a while. Only way to go and it will be a big money savings over time.

baggdis300 · 02-10-2011, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great68

It's a liability thing, your plumber does not want a chance that he could be found at fault if you were to install the vent incorrectly.

I don't blame him. You're venting combustible gas exhaust so there is a life safety consideration here.

thats 100% true.

its the company that will in fault if your mom dies of carbon monoxide poisoning because you messed up on the vent install.

baggdis300 · 02-10-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matlock

I'm no plumber, so I will just start by saying I know nothing... but does sound fishy that any inspector would need to be involved if there's no permit taken out to begin with.

Hmm... Cash grab??
Good luck with your diy projects

Sincerely,
electrician apprentice guy
Posted via RS Mobile

you usually have to pull a permit to change out a hotwater tank, or furnace due to gas connections.

daytona675 · 02-10-2011, 07:23 PM

vent sizing is based on the amount of BTU's the unit has iirc. if the guy says it 4", then probably so. i have the code book, but I don't feel like looking up because theres turns, length, Tee'ing etc.
if venting is too small, it will spill or cause poor combustion.

if you are doing it yourself, get a carbon monoxide detector after your're done.

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggdis300

you usually have to pull a permit to change out a hotwater tank, or furnace due to gas connections.

Yep, was done. Included in price.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daytona675

vent sizing is based on the amount of BTU's the unit has iirc. if the guy says it 4", then probably so. i have the code book, but I don't feel like looking up because theres turns, length, Tee'ing etc.
if venting is too small, it will spill or cause poor combustion.

if you are doing it yourself, get a carbon monoxide detector after your're done.

CO detector is a good idea. I have a spare one that I can plug in, nearby. I'll convert the exhaust to a 4 inch this coming weekend.

MG1 · 02-10-2011, 09:19 PM

BTW, I didn't shop around for prices and shit. I went with a reputable place. Not a fly by night company, or some cheap Asian place. These people have been in business for a long time. When I was quoted a price, I said, "Is this the seniors price?" because it is my mom's house and they advertise in the yellow pages that they have seniors discounts. The guy goes, "This IS the senior's price." I didn't even mention she was a senior until then.

I went out of my way to cleaned up the area. Made sure the water tank was ready to be pulled. I saved the installer an hour of labour. You'd think they would do this converting to 4 inch as part of the install price. I would have even been happy with being charged for the extra parts needed for the conversion. That is reasonable.

After the dust had settled, I got charged $1300.00!!!

The exhaust vent length is between three to four feet. Having them come back the next day would probably run another 200 bucks at that rate. This is why I am a little pissed off. The installer was very courteous - nice guy. He suggested I install the vent myself, 'cause it is pretty simple to do. And it is.

It's the owner or superviser that's trying to nickel and dime me. Fokker.

Soundy · 02-10-2011, 10:39 PM

But seriously... why don't you call a couple other plumbing shops and ask them? You can either be straight, and tell them you're trying to figure out if this other company is trying to screw you... or just say you're shopping around for the job and that you "read on the internet that I'd have to upgrade the vent... is that something I can do myself?"

Edit: better yet, just call the city and ask them. If the permit has an inspector's name on it, ask to talk to that inspector. Or just ask "in theory" if you don't want them to know who you are. Contrary to popular belief, inspectors don't generally want to screw the customers... they just want to see things done right, and they like contractors to stay in line. Some get a little power-trippin', but in my experience, if you ask them FIRST what they want to see, instead of doing it your way and then waiting for them to find something wrong, they tend to be a lot more amenable to letting little things slide.