Condo developer paying people to stand in line??

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by taylor192

That's retarded. My Kits condo is < $550 sq/ft, and blocks away from Jericho beach.

Apples and oranges.

Metrotown is the hub for newer Chinese immigrants (mainland China and Taiwan.) The Crystal Mall (which is right across the street from this tower) is the one-stop shop for all things Chinese north of the Fraser.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Apples and oranges.

Metrotown is the hub for newer Chinese immigrants (mainland China and Taiwan.) The Crystal Mall (which is right across the street from this tower) is the one-stop shop for all things Chinese north of the Fraser.

Apples and rotten apples.

This is just greed. Prices around Metrotown do not support the price of this development.

Using the same logic the condos surrounding TnT downtown Vancouver would sell for a premium, especially considering the builders and amenities. Yet you can find condos in that area for < $600 sqft and not priced more than the surrounding area, ie no premium for location.

Using the same logic any condo near Westminister and No 3 in Richmond would sell for a premium, yet they sell for even less than near Metrotown.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Originally Posted by civicyvr

JT. It makes sense they are mainlanders buying most likely for investment/flipping. They don't need to move in right away and if prices go down there's no recourse in China. Hahah.

I do hate how this sh1et inflates R.E prices so normal joe blows like you and I cant afford it.

So is this the reason why R.E prices are the way they are in vancouver?
Posted via RS Mobile

[stuff99]

I actually would've loved to been able to afford a place their...that's why I know so much about this development but I just couldn't afford it.

I work around the area and everything I need would be at Metro and Crystal Mall. Very convient. The price however and the line ups were too insane for me to get in the action.

Also, I didn't like the idea of having all mainlanders as my neighbors. Hopefully the market will crash (doubt it) and I can scoop in later.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

So is this the reason why R.E prices are the way they are in vancouver?
Posted via RS Mobile

No, just one of many factors.

Lets just say that prices are up everywhere in Canada over the last decade, Vancouver more than elsewhere, yet lets not focus on that for now. Why have prices increased everywhere?
- lower interest rates
- lower down payments
- longer amortizations
- less strict mortgage qualification rules

Studies show for every measure to make housing more affordable, the percentage of home owners increase. More home owners == more buyers == more demand == higher prices if supply doesn't keep up.

I've heard the steretypes that Asians prefer new condos and will pay a premium for a unit that has not been lived in - yet unless they flip it without ever occupying it, then that unit now becomes a used unit that no-one is lining up down the street to buy.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by stuff99

I actually would've loved to been able to afford a place their...that's why I know so much about this development but I just couldn't afford it.

I work around the area and everything I need would be at Metro and Crystal Mall. Very convient. The price however and the line ups were too insane for me to get in the action.

Also, I didn't like the idea of having all mainlanders as my neighbors. Hopefully the market will crash (doubt it) and I can scoop in later.

Why not buy in one of the many other buildings in the area? For the price difference you could easily upgrade any similar unit to be better than the units Bosa was offering.

[sh0n]

To go back on my last post Re: $600 /sq ft

It was the studios that were in the $625 range I believe.

The 1BR were high $500's per to low $600's per sq ft
The 2BR were at a sweet point at mid $500's per sq ft

@Stuff99: don't worry that you couldn't get in for this building. There are some great up and coming Metrotown projects by prominent developers that will launch in the next 2-4 months.

[sh0n]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Why not buy in one of the many other buildings in the area? For the price difference you could easily upgrade any similar unit to be better than the units Bosa was offering.

People like new and shiny. For some, even though if they can buy a comparable property (same or more sq ft) at a less price - they don't want to go through the hassle of going through a renovation.

And again, you are buying the so called Bosa "quality" and the "sovereign name"

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by sh0n

People like new and shiny. For some, even though if they can buy a comparable property (same or more sq ft) at a less price - they don't want to go through the hassle of going through a renovation.

And again, you are buying the so called Bosa "quality" and the "sovereign name"

Yet they are willing to wait 3 years. I'm calling BS on that.

This is pure speculation.

[sh0n]

Yeah it is pure speculation.

Just want to wait and see 1-2 weeks or even a month or two from now if we see anyone assigning their contracts.

[Death2Theft]

Dont think many buildlings nearby will have quite that same view. I hope the mainlanders enjoy sharing 3 elevators with the hotel guests. Wonder what happens when one elevator is broken. Dont feel bad for missing out on this.

Originally Posted by taylor192

Why not buy in one of the many other buildings in the area? For the price difference you could easily upgrade any similar unit to be better than the units Bosa was offering.

[Anjew]

metrotown is very attractive because its a viable alternative to richmond which has the reputation of going under when earthquake happens....

its expensive compared to the others because its in an an area which is arguably better than the other areas in terms of convenience that wont require a vehicle.


pro:
metrotown is one of the biggest and most complete malls in the lower mainland
superstore is close enough to not need a vehicle
silvercity
crystal mall
libary
police office
central park
10 minute drive to richmond.
bonsor
skytrain
bus hub to everywhere
less than 5 minute drive to highway 1.
highest tower
new
bosa(reputation)

con:
price
living with mainlanders with bad habits

[ImportPsycho]

if you check the pricing on regular new condos in burnaby, they are pretty close to $600/sq already(21st floor up), $600/sq for this this supposedly "luxury" condo is no suprise.

[Meowjin]

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth...257526294.html

enough said.

[jasonturbo]

The main reason RE is so expensive is not because of "Mainlanders". This is not a condition local to Vancouver, it's a constant all over Canada and caused by Canadians.

Basically the major factor is this, back in 2001, housing started it's climb up to where it is today, first Canadians caught wind of what was going on south of the border along with an "at the time" booming natural resource economy, money was flying around everywhere in Canada and much of it IMO was driven by the high price of Oil and NG. (Though NG would tank much sooner than oil)

So people have money, interest rates are decent, and RE is still affordable back in 2001-2003, so people are buying. Well after two years of fantastic RE sales due to the economic conditions, the prices are starting to creep up and some people are starting to see their property increase in value do to the rules of supply and demand, this is when the speculators get involved.

So you take a housing market (Remember, this is most of Canada, not just Vancouver) that is already low on inventory, and a strong economy, and people that bought 2-3 years prior telling everyone they know that "My house has gone up in value by XX dollars since I bought" and this sentiment spreads like wildfire, people with capital catch on pretty quick and start buying as much as they can.

So now the speculators drive up the price, the average person also wants to buy before they get priced out and they further drive up the cost of housing, to the point that the finance minister gives the ok for 0 down 40 year mortgages, drastically reducing the minimum requirements to obtain a mortgage in Canada. This action is like fanning the flames, it just makes the buying and speculation worse, now you have the average citizen not just buying one property, but two if they can get the second mortage on it, thinking they will flip in a year or two... or they buy pre-builds and hope they can flip in a year once it's been built.

So thats why prices got so retarted, it started out as a ustified housing boom, and turned into a speculative bull run, then the Govt stepped in and allowed everyone to leverage themselves into oblivion to avoid a US style housing crash.

Thats a decently short version and I wrote this quick, but thats my take on things. There is a lot of other minor details like some excellent advertising work done by developers, realtors, and media. If you look at the number of realtors in Canada 10 years ago vs today it's insane. (Tried to find a graph sorry )

Here is a price to rent index, once upon a time the cost of ownership was so low you could make money renting a place out with a 25 year mortgage, with todays prices and a conventional down payment it costs an average of twice the cost of rent to own.


It's a giant housing bubble, it's going the same way as the USA, when the herd is going one way, smart investors tend to go the other. Oh well, to all the people with 35 year VRM's good luck, and if the Govt steps in and fucking bails out home owners with my tax dollars I swear to allah I will make Jihad on Ottawa.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

Dont think many buildlings nearby will have quite that same view.

View of what?

Using that logic, my kits condo with a view of the ocean and mountains should be worth far more than these.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

It's a giant housing bubble, it's going the same way as the USA, when the herd is going one way, smart investors tend to go the other. Oh well, to all the people with 35 year VRM's good luck, and if the Govt steps in and fucking bails out home owners with my tax dollars I swear to allah I will make Jihad on Ottawa.

There are a lot of angry Americans at Obama for giving away home to people who made bad decisions.

If Harper does the same I will be forced to stop voting, as there won't be a party that is financially sound enough to vote for.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

if you check the pricing on regular new condos in burnaby, they are pretty close to $600/sq already(21st floor up), $600/sq for this this supposedly "luxury" condo is no suprise.

"new" is the key word here. Every "new" condo is eventually resold as a "used" condo, and the used condo market does not support $600 sq/ft

[stuff99]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Why not buy in one of the many other buildings in the area? For the price difference you could easily upgrade any similar unit to be better than the units Bosa was offering.

I want something new.

Not sure why you're so upset about this. I didn't end up buying cause it wasn't in my price range. It would've been nice to be able to afford it but it wasn't affordable so I didn't get it.

Calm down.

It'd be nice to get a Porsche too. Try not to spaz out on that as well.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by stuff99

I want something new.

Not sure why you're so upset about this. I didn't end up buying cause it wasn't in my price range. It would've been nice to be able to afford it but it wasn't affordable so I didn't get it.

Calm down.

It'd be nice to get a Porsche too. Try not to spaz out on that as well.

No-one is spazing, we're calmly calling people who buy at these prices stupid. If you're offended, then too bad.

As long as your stupidity doesn't cost me tax dollars, then you can do as you please. Yet if you leave < 20% down you take CMHC insurance and are a liability to me the tax payer for your poor decision to buy more than the market is telling you it is worth.

Since you're having difficulty affording in that price range, you're probably one of the people likely to cost me tax dollars eventually, and I should rightfully be concerned.

[stuff99]

Originally Posted by taylor192

No-one is spazing, we're calmly calling people who buy at these prices stupid. If you're offended, then too bad.

As long as your stupidity doesn't cost me tax dollars, then you can do as you please. Yet if you leave < 20% down you take CMHC insurance and are a liability to me the tax payer for your poor decision to buy more than the market is telling you it is worth.

Since you're having difficulty affording in that price range, you're probably one of the people likely to cost me tax dollars eventually, and I should rightfully be concerned.

I didn't buy because I didn't like the prices but I like the location and the developer. I don't understand why that is so hard for you to understand.

I was interested in the property until the prices came out and felt that it wasn't for me. It's still a nice development. I think it is unfair to label me as one of those that will cost you tax dollars when I have a sticker price I'm willing to pay and if it wasn't met I walked away. It's offense because you paint me with the same brush. If I CAN afford that price, it's still ignorant on your part to accuse people for paying stupid prices for a place they may enjoy living it. Some might argue people paying an insane amount to live in Kits is stupid too. At the end of the day value and pricing is a relative thing.

Anyways I never meant for this to be an internet debate. I just wanted to say that its a nice location with nice floor plans but a tad high price point. I also did not like that most people that purchased the place will probably flip the property for profit but that's the way it goes.

As for the prices being "stupid" so are the housing prices in general in Vancouver. It is what it is.

If I can afford Kits and downtown I would too but I don't work there and parking is too troublesome. The fact is, a new development in downtown or Kits will end up costing more than in Burnaby (including Sovereign). You cannot get a 21st floor condo for the same price point. I am sure the property taxes are higher in Vancouver too.

To each their own right?

Perhaps I should end this with a to make it better for all involved.

[jasonturbo]

The subject of what's "affordable" is a funny one. What some people consider "affordable" at 5% down and 35 years of payments at a scant 3% VRM lets say,.. is very different from the traditional 20% down over 25 years at historically normal 6.5%

So consider for a minute the difference in what someone has to pay...

450000$ -5% down is 427500, and mortgaged over 35 years at 3% is about 1640$ a month and youre paying about 261000$ in interest over that time. Now lets be more realistic and say you end up at a 6.5% rate averaged out over time, then you end up with 2550$ per month and paying nearly 650000$ in interest.

Now on the other side of the fence, old school lending standards here,
450000$ -20% is 360000$ and mortgaged over 25 years at 6.5% is about 2400$ a month and you will have paid 363000$ in interest.

So in a realistic situation, that extra 15% down which was 67500$ saved you 287000$ worth of interest to the bank.

Basically what I am getting at it this, all those people that insist on buying cause of low rate VRM's and long mortgage terms are just fucking themselves royally in the long run, and it also happens to be the only reason why they even qualify for a mortgage. Now in a normal world lending companies might be a little more strict but when the bank is protected by CMHC in canada they don't exactly have a lot of risk.

The majority of buyers that fueled the boom in the last three years are buyers that bought on emotion, not on intelligent financial practices.

So stuff99 when you bring up the issue of affordability and then say the prices of that building didnt make you happy, the reality IMO is that the prices on any piece of property in the lower mainland shouldnt make you happy or seem any more affordable.

Just my .02

EDIT** Just for the sake of my amusement, lets say that same 5/35 mortgage at 6.5% above was actually a 25 year, the payments would be like this, 2860/month and interest paid would be 431000$... yikes.. its no wonder everyone is jumping on 35 year VRM... cause they cant afford property any other way, one look at the median household income in the lower mainland tells you this is very true.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by stuff99

I didn't buy because I didn't like the prices but I like the location and the developer. I don't understand why that is so hard for you to understand.

I wrote 2 sentences to you and you accused me of spazing, and now you continue to complain I don't understand. If you understood my respond you'd get it, yet you don't.

Originally Posted by stuff99

I was interested in the property until the prices came out and felt that it wasn't for me. I think it is unfair to label me as one of those that will cost you tax dollars when I have a sticker price I'm willing to pay and if it wasn't met I walked away. It's offense because you paint me with the same brush.

Then none of the "stupid" comments apply to you. I don't understand why you're offended, since you didn't buy at that price the label doesn't fit and no-one painted you with that brush. We labeled and painted the stupid people.

Originally Posted by stuff99

If I CAN afford that price, it's still ignorant on your part to accuse people for paying stupid prices for a place they may enjoy living it. Some might argue people paying an insane amount to live in Kits is stupid too. At the end of the day value and pricing is a relative thing.

We all make stupid decisions with money. I have wasted tons of money modding my car yet I enjoyed doing so. I will not pretend it was a smart decision, and if its not a smart decision... it is a <filll in the blank> decision.

Pricing is a "market" thing, not "relative". Just cause a bunch of stupid people just overpaid for "relative" quality doesn't mean the "market" has adjusted. As we near the end of Feb sales are below average and active listings soaring, so the market is saying it is overbought and flattening - yet stupid people line up to pay above market prices.

The condo I referenced in Kits in below market average for Kits, despite still being an insane amount.

It is ignorant and stupid to ignore the market.

Originally Posted by stuff99

As for the prices being "stupid" so are the housing prices in general in Vancouver. It is what it is.

Now I get it, you don't understand what we mean by "stupid", I'll clarify since you're having trouble with it:

It is stupid to pay more than market value in today's market.

Since we both agree most of the buyers are speculators, then we can both agree they are stupid.

Originally Posted by stuff99

The fact is, a new development in downtown or Kits will end up costing more than in Burnaby (including Sovereign). You cannot get a 21st floor condo for the same price point.

You are correct, you cannot get a "new" condo, yet you can get a 26th floor condo above TnT downtown with an excellent view of false creek for less than Sovereign just sold for - with cash left over to renovate and you can move in today.

Originally Posted by stuff99

To each their own right?

Perhaps I should end this with a to make it better for all involved.

Yes to each their own - as long as it does not affect me the tax payer. Read some articles about the housing overhang impact in Spain and see how many wrapping up significant amount of wealth in housing has killed that economy.

So the problem is, its never "to each their own" as if enough people make these stupid decisions it affects me.

[stuff99]

The pricing of new condos in the Metro area is around the same price point as the Bosa development.

Take a look at perspectives, affinity, and the few other ones by Patterson station. That is the market price right now.

[stuff99]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

The subject of what's "affordable" is a funny one. What some people consider "affordable" at 5% down and 35 years of payments at a scant 3% VRM lets say,.. is very different from the traditional 20% down over 25 years at historically normal 6.5%

So consider for a minute the difference in what someone has to pay...

450000$ -5% down is 427500, and mortgaged over 35 years at 3% is about 1640$ a month and youre paying about 261000$ in interest over that time. Now lets be more realistic and say you end up at a 6.5% rate averaged out over time, then you end up with 2550$ per month and paying nearly 650000$ in interest.

Now on the other side of the fence, old school lending standards here,
450000$ -20% is 360000$ and mortgaged over 25 years at 6.5% is about 2400$ a month and you will have paid 363000$ in interest.

So in a realistic situation, that extra 15% down which was 67500$ saved you 287000$ worth of interest to the bank.

Basically what I am getting at it this, all those people that insist on buying cause of low rate VRM's and long mortgage terms are just fucking themselves royally in the long run, and it also happens to be the only reason why they even qualify for a mortgage. Now in a normal world lending companies might be a little more strict but when the bank is protected by CMHC in canada they don't exactly have a lot of risk.

The majority of buyers that fueled the boom in the last three years are buyers that bought on emotion, not on intelligent financial practices.

So stuff99 when you bring up the issue of affordability and then say the prices of that building didnt make you happy, the reality IMO is that the prices on any piece of property in the lower mainland shouldnt make you happy or seem any more affordable.

Just my .02

EDIT** Just for the sake of my amusement, lets say that same 5/35 mortgage at 6.5% above was actually a 25 year, the payments would be like this, 2860/month and interest paid would be 431000$... yikes.. its no wonder everyone is jumping on 35 year VRM... cause they cant afford property any other way, one look at the median household income in the lower mainland tells you this is very true.

I suppose I should clarify. I wasn't comfortable paying that amount for a condo with no land value and the cost per sq footage at Bosa.