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03-18-2011, 06:18 PM
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#126 | | manage the cap you say????
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Originally Posted by falcon  You've been working for FOUR YEARS at minimum wage? Seriously? | Not surprised at all.
McDonalds start wage: $6.75
500 hours -> $6.75 to $8.00
40 hours/week = ish 12.5 weeks, or 3 months.
6.75$ -> $8.00 in 3 months.
McDicks = raise every 6 months, minimum at 10cents, maximum at 20cents (Dependent on performance), lets say, so eight raises, 8 x 0.2 = $1.60
$6.75 -> ~$9.60 in 4 years...
factor in promotion raises, maybe up to 10$
I know people who work their ass off but don't really get the 20cent raises, 10$ish isn't technically minimum wage but IMO is deserving of what the work people do at McDonalds. And all of the above is considering a person is working FULL TIME, and the odds of starting with 40hours weekly are slim to none. Its gonna be quite interesting what McDonalds is going to do, its quite possible for the back-end to be run via computer/technology but there has to be workers in the front.
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03-18-2011, 06:31 PM
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#127 | | To me, there is the Internet and there is RS
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Originally Posted by illicitstylz that's stupid, people should have to work their way up to earn a higher wage, not just be entitled to a higher wage for the same "level" of performance. | Even the new min. wage isnt enough to be able to support yourself in BC...
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03-18-2011, 06:52 PM
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#128 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by achiam
The most efficient market allows complete free competition of supply vs demand. When certain people at the top become ultra rich, it trickles down society so that everyone benefits as a whole.
| I don't think his has been proven to be entirely true.
About 40 years ago, in the USA - which is the most important economic power and the driving engine of the world - tax rates were substantially higher for higher income earners/corporations and President Regans administration introduced massive tax cuts to corporations and the ultra rich. This worked since it allowed businesses to use the "tax savings" to invest in projects etc and thus creates more jobs and further increases GDP and benefits everyone. This is known as "supply" side economics or as you said, "trickle down" theory.
The reason it worked back then was because tax rates were super high (I believe around 80%-90% for richies and corporations? )
Since then it has been reduced again and again and it is WAY too low in my opinion. Due to globalization, instead of investing to the "tax savings" in new projects and innovations to benefit the USA, Corporations use the extra money to invest in overseas projects/factories etc. .. so money now goes to investments overseas,
or it goes to the Retained Earnings ---> the shareholders. In which most corporations these days are foreign owned, so a large chunk of it goes overseas, no longer trickling down to the american citizens. Quote:
Originally Posted by achiam
When you artificially try to raise the living income of the bottom, it trickles up by other means -- increased costs (e.g. a hamburger goes up 20 cents, etc) and the market will auto adjust for the new measures.
| Another argument out there is that when wages wise (of course, not too high or it will drive away businesses), consumers now have funds to spend on goods. And this demand will drive corporations, if they are profit driven, to invest in products or goods that consumers would want. This forces companies to invest in projects that would produce these goods.
For example, there is a demand for condos that are more earthquake resistant or cause leaks. Then companies would invest in engineers to design such products and invest in the commodities, materials (steel, concrete) or whatever such equipment/machinery that can produce this cheaply and cost-effectively. It drives innovation, and innovation powers growth.
Personally I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, but right now I think the economy is too much supply driven than demand driven.
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03-18-2011, 09:20 PM
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#129 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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Valid arguements. I sort of follow your way of thinking. However, minimum wage has no role in your supply/demand side arguments.
No, minimum wage is not needed in this country. Minimum labour standards are good enough to control informational issues.
Minimum wage increase =/= standard of living increases. As what others stated, real life example given by skiipii. Quote:
Originally Posted by azndude69 I don't think his has been proven to be entirely true.
About 40 years ago, in the USA - which is the most important economic power and the driving engine of the world - tax rates were substantially higher for higher income earners/corporations and President Regans administration introduced massive tax cuts to corporations and the ultra rich. This worked since it allowed businesses to use the "tax savings" to invest in projects etc and thus creates more jobs and further increases GDP and benefits everyone. This is known as "supply" side economics or as you said, "trickle down" theory.
The reason it worked back then was because tax rates were super high (I believe around 80%-90% for richies and corporations? )
Since then it has been reduced again and again and it is WAY too low in my opinion. Due to globalization, instead of investing to the "tax savings" in new projects and innovations to benefit the USA, Corporations use the extra money to invest in overseas projects/factories etc. .. so money now goes to investments overseas,
or it goes to the Retained Earnings ---> the shareholders. In which most corporations these days are foreign owned, so a large chunk of it goes overseas, no longer trickling down to the american citizens.
Another argument out there is that when wages wise (of course, not too high or it will drive away businesses), consumers now have funds to spend on goods. And this demand will drive corporations, if they are profit driven, to invest in products or goods that consumers would want. This forces companies to invest in projects that would produce these goods.
For example, there is a demand for condos that are more earthquake resistant or cause leaks. Then companies would invest in engineers to design such products and invest in the commodities, materials (steel, concrete) or whatever such equipment/machinery that can produce this cheaply and cost-effectively. It drives innovation, and innovation powers growth.
Personally I think the answer is somewhere in the middle, but right now I think the economy is too much supply driven than demand driven. | Posted via RS Mobile | |
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03-19-2011, 10:13 AM
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#130 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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^
If markets were efficient, then no we don't need a min wage. However, markets are inefficient, so we do need to set some sort of minimum wage. There are too many other factors in REAL LIFE that theories and textbooks can't teach us since most concepts there ony assume two or three variables.
I think the better way to help families is to decrease income tax for lower income earners imo since they barely contribute to the overall income tax collected anyways.
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03-19-2011, 11:41 AM
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#131 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by azndude69 ^
If markets were efficient, then no we don't need a min wage. However, markets are inefficient, so we do need to set some sort of minimum wage. There are too many other factors in REAL LIFE that theories and textbooks can't teach us since most concepts there ony assume two or three variables.
I think the better way to help families is to decrease income tax for lower income earners imo since they barely contribute to the overall income tax collected anyways. | Absolutely. Markets are inefficient. However, my point is that minimum wage should NOT be a priority in the government's agenda to reduce market inefficiency. Minimum wage policies have no place in neither efficient or inefficient markets. People who gets shafted by low low wage have the incentives to equip themselves with more skills and earn a higher paying wage, while some people are willing to work at such a low wage.
That's why I have been saying minimum labour standards (e.g. safety, hour limits, etc.) are enough.
Tax restructuring can be beneficial to the general economy, but I am not entirely familiar with the Canadian income tax system. Can't really comment.
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11-01-2011, 10:03 AM
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#132 | | hoppity HOP HOP
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Richmond
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| As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50  ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.).
What happens to the wages for those already at or slightly above $9.75/hr, who have reached that amount after say, one year of employment? Would they continue to make that amount, even if its the same as a new hire, or would all wages be scaled higher accordingly, to the new min. wage?
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11-01-2011, 10:18 AM
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#133 | | In RS I Trust
Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Mission
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Originally Posted by Spectre_Cdn As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50 ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.).
What happens to the wages for those already at or slightly above $9.75/hr, who have reached that amount after say, one year of employment? Would they continue to make that amount, even if its the same as a new hire, or would all wages be scaled higher accordingly, to the new min. wage? | Nope the wages will stay the same, The only thing that will change it the min wage.
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11-01-2011, 04:06 PM
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#134 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: vancouver
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But if youre man enough, you will ask for a raise accordingly.
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11-01-2011, 04:46 PM
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#135 | | Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Vancouver
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It's about time they raise the minimum wage, since everything is becoming inflated these days. This doesn't really affect me though, since I'm already making more than "$9.50"  | |
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11-01-2011, 05:57 PM
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#136 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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Originally Posted by geeknerd But if youre man enough, you will ask for a raise accordingly. | Tried, got nothing. This effective cuts into purchasing power of those who are at just above the new minimum wages.
On a lighter note, gas prices are down, just a little bit.
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11-01-2011, 08:20 PM
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#137 | | VLS Head Mod
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Originally Posted by Spectre_Cdn As of today, the minimum wage in BC is $9.50 ($8.75 for servers in bars etc.). | why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage?
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11-01-2011, 08:31 PM
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#138 | | Banned By Establishment
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Originally Posted by saucywoman why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage? | Because any server worth his/her salt in the industry can make .75c an hour in tips.
Bitch all they want-its true and good to separate them.
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11-01-2011, 09:15 PM
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#139 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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really sux for those who made just a bit more than 9.50/hr.
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11-01-2011, 09:15 PM
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#140 | | I am Hook'd on RS
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Originally Posted by twitchyzero i'm eating the same amount and quality of food..i wander why my monthly grocery bill is more expensive than it was 5 years ago... | uh, that is because there are more population on this earth each day and the resource is getting more scarce....demand > supply = price going up, is that very hard to understand?
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11-01-2011, 10:28 PM
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#141 | | Banned By Establishment
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also servers never report tax...
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11-01-2011, 10:56 PM
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#142 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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Originally Posted by saucywoman why are servers not getting the bump in the minimum wage? | because they do not report their tips on the income tax reports
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11-02-2011, 02:08 AM
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#143 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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but sigh i read somehwere min pay to really survive in vancouver is like ... 18$  its okay im gonna be dental assistant
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11-02-2011, 03:08 AM
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#144 | | Rs has made me the man i am today!
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Originally Posted by see.lai It's about time they raise the minimum wage, since everything is becoming inflated these days. This doesn't really affect me though, since I'm already making more than "$9.50" | you know increasing the minimum wage is one of the factors that increase inflation right?..
technically raising the minimum wage is bad for you because stores will only increase prices to compensate for the increase in the cost of wages and thus you who make more than $9.50 will end up having less purchasing power as the other guy below you said.
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11-02-2011, 03:15 AM
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#145 | | I bringith the lowerballerith
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Originally Posted by EvoFire Tried, got nothing. This effective cuts into purchasing power of those who are at just above the new minimum wages.
On a lighter note, gas prices are down, just a little bit. | If you've been working a while at the same place and has been making around $9.50 but they dont give you a raise accordingly to the raise in min.wage
Then seriously threat with full intent of quitting if no raise.
Even if you get a 10cent raise every month from now, by May when Min.wage reaches $10.25, your +# of experience will be worth the same as a 'just hired' employee. And if you cant even get a raise now, i doubt youll be getting one when the min wage is even higher and theyll be paying more to everyone and be cheap to save some money.
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11-02-2011, 06:44 AM
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#146 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
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bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain.
Last edited by FerrariEnzo; 11-02-2011 at 06:52 AM.
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11-02-2011, 07:09 AM
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#147 | | My name is PJ and I like dogs.
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Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain. | Sort of agree.. but it's not exactly the bottom line..
Labour and some trades jobs I'd say are exceptions.. Quite a few people are making ~$40-60k with next to zero post secondary, which is more than what most university grads make in their average first 1-5 years. Window washers, general labourers, warehouse workers, trash haulers, shipyards, railroads, renovations, construction, etc. It's not HUGE money, but definitely not at the bottom.
But of course the trade off is the job itself, and lack of advancement opportunity.
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Last edited by PJ; 11-02-2011 at 07:32 AM.
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11-02-2011, 09:05 AM
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#148 | | Banned (ABWS)
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Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo bottom line is, if you dont have a good education, you are at the bottom of the food chain. | Quote:
Originally Posted by PJ Sort of agree.. but it's not exactly the bottom line..
Labour and some trades jobs I'd say are exceptions. | PJ, you need to stop thinking of education as "formal education".
My brother is a general contractor and makes more than I do as a computer engineer. He didn't even graduate high school, yet has expert knowledge of wood working, cabinetry, plumbing, electrical, ... acquired on the job.
He may call me whenever he has a computer question, yet I call him whenever I have a home reno question.
Yet getting back on topic, minimum wage jobs typically require little/no education, formal or acquired.
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11-02-2011, 10:14 AM
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#149 | | My name is PJ and I like dogs.
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Originally Posted by PJ with next to zero post secondary | Quote:
Originally Posted by taylor192 PJ, you need to stop thinking of education as "formal education". | I'm not bashing, I'm actually agreeing with you, and somewhat disagreeing with FerrariEnzo's point about how no "good education" = bottom of the food chain. Am I missing what you're disagreeing with? I never said anything about "formal education."
I said labour and trades are exceptions to FerrariEnzo's little theory. One of my close friends did a 2-week crash course on carpentry straight out of high school a few years ago, and now he's making upwards of $70k. So if a 2-week course qualifies as "good education" then so be it.
__________________ Studies show 100% of people die.. Might as well have some fun.
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Last edited by PJ; 11-02-2011 at 10:22 AM.
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11-02-2011, 06:25 PM
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#150 | | My homepage has been set to RS
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Originally Posted by PJ I'm not bashing, I'm actually agreeing with you, and somewhat disagreeing with FerrariEnzo's point about how no "good education" = bottom of the food chain. Am I missing what you're disagreeing with? I never said anything about "formal education."
I said labour and trades are exceptions to FerrariEnzo's little theory. One of my close friends did a 2-week crash course on carpentry straight out of high school a few years ago, and now he's making upwards of $70k. So if a 2-week course qualifies as "good education" then so be it. | With trades most of the skills that you learn are from on the job anyways, not in school. So he could have been working for 4 years and not gone through an actual apprenticeship, but the company see's him as valuable enough to pay him journeymen rate.
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