B.C. minimum wage to rise to $10.25 by 2012

[TheNewGirl]

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

[skiiipi]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Most of the people I see working at Tim Hortons, McD's, etc. are mature adults. Most of the retails shops I patronize (department stores, chains, etc.) are staffed by adults as well. I think it's safe to assume that at least 30-40% of these workers have to support themselves.

Not sure about Tim Hortins, most of the adult working in retail, provided that they have experience, are making far above min wage. so this wage min wage increase doesnt really affect them....it really only affects those with min or no experience.

An honest question: why does your company have to pay the university student $10/hour off the bat? Wouldn't your company only pay them $8/hour? In my experience from working at the lower-end, you get paid according to your experience in the job. If you have no experience in the job or experience in the company, you get paid the lowest wage regardless of age.

We start everyone off usually at $8.75 for someone with no experience or minimal relevant experience. Usually a college student will have more open availability + more experience which sometimes you have to pay a little more for. But the $8.75 employees are quite crucial to the success of a business. Every retail store needs the "cheaper" employees to drive down the overall payroll cost. Like I stated in my above post, when wages increase, the amount of hours available goes down, so by increasing your "high school" 5-10/weekend staff's wage to $10.25.....instead of having 3 5-10 shift, i may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective. Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.

[achiam]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

It has nothing to do with how hard one works at his/her job. It is economics pure and simple. The politics of British Columbia, and indeed most localized economies, wavers between socialistic and capitalistic tendencies.

As I mentioned in my previous post, increasing the income of the lowest tiered earners puts a toll on the economy as a whole -- it makes BC products more expensive and puts our products at a disadvantage when competing globally. With less global purchasers, the businesses suffer and either fold or move completely to another country with cheaper operating costs. This also results in less tax revenue to the government to pay for all forms of public services.

If this happens, we all pay for it with higher unemployment as a result. The highly educated people won't be affected -- they can easily move elsewhere as a result (e.g. brain drain).

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by eurochevy

your an idiot.

The irony of this post is awesome

[falcon]

I have never worked for minimum wage in my life. I have not gone to university, I have just graduated HS. My first job was at a motorcycle dealership making $10/hr washing bikes. I eventually got a few raises making that $14/hr. And that then turned into another job opporitunity to sell motorcycles where I made 45-50k/yr and then from that to service advisor making $20/hr.

The people working these minimum wage jobs are either 1) not supporting themselves or 2) the bottom end feeders, lazy, do what you have to do and go home type of people. Anyone with half a brain is not making minimum wage and if they did if you work hard for a few months you get a raise (at any normal job anyways). All this is going to do is raise the cost of hiring some moron HS drop out and he will think he's boss because he's now making $10.25/hr instead of $8/hr.

[CP.AR]

^ and BOOM those moron dropouts is how a 14 doller baller is born
:IDL

[achiam]

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

[bakasam]

Originally Posted by achiam

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

People at Aberdeen make like 8$/hr and even less at daiso i think :P

Lots of places also start like 8.50~8.75

[Meowjin]

lol nothing is gonna change you dolts. You do realize there is still a labour shortage at $8 dollar an hour jobs. When there are so many part time jobs out there that pay 12+.

[TheNewGirl]

Originally Posted by achiam

Seriously who makes abso minimum wage?
When I was in Grade 10 and washing dishes at the Keg, I was already earning $8.50/hour after tips. And this was in 1995 dollars, when going to the movies cost $5.99, as a reference.

- A lot of people who are new to the country do.
-Teenagers.
- Most "mall jobs" are minimum wage (and a lot of other entry level retail).
-A lot of moms who can't work full time because of childcare costs but still need to contribute to the family purse to make groceries work part time min wage jobs.
-Gas Station attendants.
-Childcare / school assistants / nursery school teachers / group daycare workers
-Many jobs that used to rely on tips as an hourly buffer (the HST has already lead to a reduction in tipping which has reduced earnings by serving staff dramatically in many many places).
- Farm workers (And a plethora of other agriculture jobs)

It is a small portion of the working public but often they're the people who need it the most, the folks that don't have other options.

achiam> But at the same time, increasing the min wage shifts the burden from the government programs that subsidize families with min wage or low wage earning as they'll make more and qualify for/require less government dollars. Which corrects some of the problem that it creates. At the same time, it also puts more money into the hands of young people and the $$ of 16- 25 year old makes the world go 'round. They're the highest consumers with the lowest burden, their own increased spending will even pay for some of their peers jobs... cause largely don't hold onto their pay checks.

I'm not saying it's a perfect system but it is ultimately nessesery. I would would have liked to have seen a slower increase planned out at like .75/year over 3 years but I understand that this is politically motivated and Christie Clark's attempt to steal some of the NDP votes before we go into an election as well.

Falcon > Your lack of education is showing.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by skiiipi

We start everyone off usually at $8.75 for someone with no experience or minimal relevant experience. Usually a college student will have more open availability + more experience which sometimes you have to pay a little more for. But the $8.75 employees are quite crucial to the success of a business. Every retail store needs the "cheaper" employees to drive down the overall payroll cost. Like I stated in my above post, when wages increase, the amount of hours available goes down, so by increasing your "high school" 5-10/weekend staff's wage to $10.25.....instead of having 3 5-10 shift, i may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective. Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.

Okay, understood. In a vacuum, this reasoning makes sense. But ultimately, I think wages are in some way tied to overall revenue which may increase if wages go up.

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by dachinesedude

for the people who never took any economics courses, STFU plz, some of u guys are making bullshit ass false statements

the only credible person i know of is TRDood, listen to him

Efficiency wage theory man, I remember washing dishes at the same restaurant as my cousin and being paid a good $3 more than him, boosts morale quite a bit, I worked there for a good 2 years in high school, he quit after 6 months, couldn't handle the stress, that being said I think there needs to be more room for lower quality workers in the economy and raising the minimum wage that much is gonna hurt that. Whoever thinks that there is a job surplus just because people are hiring need to stfu.

Besides unemployment is artificially low, I've been looking for another entry level P/T job the last 4 months or so and it's been hard to find one that will work with my school schedule. But as a discouraged worker I'm not even considered unemployed cause I'm a full time student now, ironically enough studying this sort of thing...

[Meowjin]

Work in nightclubs. Stop complaining.

[Nssan]

'I may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective'

well shouldn't your schedule be determined on business demands and needs. If you have the same demand with 3 employees, then 2 employees would stress on your ability to service customer or maintain productivity.

'Also, at 10.25 you can usually find "higher quality" or more experienced people to work those 5-10/weekend shifts, which makes it harder for people with no experience to get their foot in the door.'

In the year 2012, when minimum wage is $10.25 , how can you find a 'higher quality' or more experienced people than the employees you have working now to work? Those people will demand a even higher wage as they know they are 'higher quality' than 'no experience' employees who will be getting $10.25 from the start.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Nssan

'I may only schedule 2 from a payroll perspective'

well shouldn't your schedule be determined on business demands and needs. If you have the same demand with 3 employees, then 2 employees would stress on your ability to service customer or maintain productivity.

I agree with this. There's a maximum productivity level you can get from a single employee.

In my line of work (Contracting) there's a set amount of hours it will take to do a job. You can cut workers, but that will just extend the length of time it takes to do the job.

Say McDonalds needs 20 employees working to provide service to 50 customers an hour, if they cut back to 18 employees they can now only service 40 customers an hour and they'd be loosing sales which costs the company FAR more money.

[darkfroggy]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

lol nothing is gonna change you dolts. You do realize there is still a labour shortage at $8 dollar an hour jobs. When there are so many part time jobs out there that pay 12+.

Please tell me where these jobs are to be found.

[Euro7r]

Minimum wage is only applicable for people that are like highschool students that are starting to work to get experience at retail/fast food industry. This doesn't really concern most of us, if your a grown up adult making minimum wage, that means your dicking around way too much.

[ImpactZ]

a lot of people should be happy about this

[Lomac]

This thread makes my head hurt.

Yes, this may hurt mom and pop stores that operate on a razer thin profit margin, but larger chains tend to make more than enough that they can swallow this wage hike. Most big companies all set their prices at a national level. You wont suddenly see the price of computers rising at Best Buy or the price of binders at Staples jumping up because of this.

I'd be interested in seeing how companies did in Ontario before and after their current minimum wage jump, but I'm willing to bet that there was minimal overall impact.

[TRDood]

Originally Posted by TheNewGirl

Alright... NOT EVERY EMPLOYEE IN BC IS GETTING A RAISE.

All this means is the LEAST people can be paid for their time is going up. It does not mean everyone else and their bloody dog is mandated to get a pay increase.

It does mean we'll likely see wages gradually inflate to accomidate this. THIS is a good thing. In Vancouver we have the worst average wage to average housing cost ratio in North America. Introducing pressure to increase average wages to catch up with the cost of living in our region is ultimately to everyone's benifit.

MYTH: This is going to break small business
Fact: This is likely going to minimally impact most privately owned businesses. The largest impact will be on large chain retail and food services and franchises that routinely pay minimum wage. Many (Starbucks, Tim Horton's, etc) already pay over the minimum thus it will have 0 impact on them at the end of the day.

Those of you who go on about minimum wage workers not working very 'hard' clearly have not had one of those jobs. They're often some of the most grueling jobs to do and often in the industries that are the most abusive to their employees. Unforunately there are people who lack the education or mobility to do anything else and need to make a living. Either they can earn it on minimum wage or YOU and I can pay it for them while they have to take subsidies and other sources of tax payer dollars.

You see... you are going to pay no matter what. I for one would rather someone earn their living working than cashing a welfare check that I worked MY ass off for.

I would not you to run the government. At least at the provincial level.

Like I said, the market should determine what the wage should be. Getting paid $6 at McDicks or your local corner store? Get some experience and education and GET THE FUCK OUT OF THERE. The economy is dynamic. There will always be newcomers who are willing to take a shitty wage.

Don't argue about disability, it represents a small portion of the economy. They do get extra benefits from the government.

Language barrier? Grab a ESL textbook and learn. The government offers a lot of training resources.

Adults who work at minimum wage? Take a look at their whole budget constraint and preferences. Do they have other obligations? e.g. taking care of a kid, taking care of an elderly, those are production as well, just not measured in wages.

I agree that the government has a role in the economy, no doubt. However, the government should stay the fuck out of minimum wage policies. They are inefficient, no policy implications at all, market does not fail due to a lack of minimum wage. (I can prove that in math, or theory, maybe empirically too)

Things that target a certain group in the economy such as minimum wage has more costs than benefits. Christy Clark just wants more votes because there are more "feelers" in the economy than "economists".

[TRDood]

Originally Posted by Lomac

This thread makes my head hurt.

Yes, this may hurt mom and pop stores that operate on a razer thin profit margin, but larger chains tend to make more than enough that they can swallow this wage hike. Most big companies all set their prices at a national level. You wont suddenly see the price of computers rising at Best Buy or the price of binders at Staples jumping up because of this.

I'd be interested in seeing how companies did in Ontario before and after their current minimum wage jump, but I'm willing to bet that there was minimal overall impact.

If profits stays the same, then cost must have gone down. Which means less people are working.

For simplicity, Profits = Revenue - Costs. To keep profits constant, you do the math. This concept is applicable to all businesses.

Now, we are only speculating according to theory. Economists NEVER get their shit right (like me) relative to actual data. That's why there are so many "economic puzzles". So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[CP.AR]

^as my favourite prof at UBC (Newman) says... "your answer to everything in economics is - the effects are ambiguous"

[TRDood]

Originally Posted by Captain Picard

^as my favourite prof at UBC (Newman) says... "your answer to everything in economics is - the effects are ambiguous"

That's what I say to my students too.

There are too many variables and speculations in the market to forecast what is going to happen tomorrow.

Just like the HST, Carbon Tax, (Living in Vancouver premium _insert tax here), people adjust their preferences constantly according to the past and expectations about the future.

I think the recent thought in economics is "higher order beliefs" - my prof is going to teach all that math in the coming weeks. fml...

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by darkfroggy

Please tell me where these jobs are to be found.

labour ready paid $10 an hour before this..

any job where you might have to actually lift a finger can easilly pay 12+ if you think you cant find them then your not looking.

[popopopopp]

Well more money is good. A lot of things will remain the same price.