Bouncer at Vancouver pub accused of racial profiling

[GabAlmighty]

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

Do u still look like Paul walker?
Posted via RS Mobile

Nah, I gained some muscle and keep my hair shorter now haha. How did you know about that trait?

Originally Posted by JD¹³

Nuts or throat, 100% of the time it works everytime

Didn't need to. I tackled/threw him into the urinals and was about to do some work when they pulled us apart. It's a shame, ah well.

[Soundy]

For those too lazy to click (or in case the link gets edited):

Gang members come from all backgrounds: criminologist
Responds to debate stemming from racial profiling accusation at Vancouver nightclub

Andrea Macpherson 2011/04/08
LOWER MAINLAND (NEWS1130) - Racial profiling accusations at a Vancouver nightclub has ignited a debate on several online forums and on this website.

Many people suggest denying people entry based on race is loosely connected to the Lower Mainland gang scene. But criminologist Darryl Plecas with the University of the Fraser Valley says gangs members come in all forms and from different backgrounds.

"One good example of that, where there are multi ethnic groups, is the UN Gang... which [most people] will be familiar with," he points out. "It is also true, more often than not, that gangs are ethnically based. So it's not hard to see how some people might get confused about that."

He notes there are white, black, hispanic, Italian, Asian, South Asian gangs -- and all other kinds in between. Plecas adds clubs can be faced with political correctness challenges but "it would be definitely unfair to make the assumption that simply because there was a collection of people or young people from an ethnic group... that there was some sort of gang thing going on."

Note: clicking the link above will result in a feedback loop. You have been warned.

[baggdis300]

wtf you mean feedback loop?

i clicked it and it just opened this thread from the 1st page....

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by asahai69

edit. how the hell did that news article start talking about gangs? lmao wtf!?!?!?! im sure most of the fights in the clubs are just regular dudes acting tough. not random gang members meeting up in a bar and fighting it out like a fuken western movie. gangsters are a verryyyyy tiny percentage of the population

They want to further distance regular citizens from these hooligans because it creates a sense of "Us vs Them" and NIMBYism. Nobody wants to believe that their next door neighbour is capable of being the type of person who get into drunken brawls after a couple of shots.

Plus, "gangs" drive web traffic. The person writing the article clearly had a quote lined up before writing it and wanted a way to tie in a current event so it didn't go to waste.

The line "Many people suggest denying people entry based on race is loosely connected to the Lower Mainland gang scene." COULD be rooted in fact but can't be backed up by any source. Many people could suggest that denying people entry based on race is loosely connected to seasonal affective disorder and be just as right.

Andrea Macpherson is a terrible journalist and needed something publishable to make it seem like her days spent playing Farmville at the News 1130 offices not a total waste of money. Its both unintentionally hilarious and unfortunate that Revscene, who in no way was discussing gang activity in relation to this event, has been fingered as a "source"

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by baggdis300

wtf you mean feedback loop?

i clicked it and it just opened this thread from the 1st page....

Exactly. Now go to page 5... look, there's the link again. Click it again.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Tachycardia!

Its both unintentionally hilarious and unfortunate that Revscene, who in no way was discussing gang activity in relation to this event, has been fingered as a "source"

Well, you know what they say, any publicity is good publicity

[Roach]

As an East Indian male, I can understand the prejudice against us.

Even through my own life experiences, I have chosen to distance myself from my brethren. Does it mean I'm not proud of my culture? No. I just can't live with the arrogant, egotistical & violent nature of brown guys. It is all show, stare-downs and threats with most brown guys. Listening to 2pac like they are some oppressed gangbangers makes them think they have something to prove. Realistically, they are mainly upper middle class and take advantage of their hard-working parent's blind love for male children to present an image of having "made it".

My friends are mainly oriental. And as a result, I've never had a problem getting into a club. Nor have I ever started any problems at one. We never get in fights nor do we have anything to prove to anyone. It's just good times, the way it should be.

Inevitably, if our culture wants the profiling to stop, we need to adjust our attitudes and behaviour to regain the respect we have long lost.

And in no way does that comment reflect on any of the EI guys posting in this thread. There are some very eloquent and educated apnas on this forum. However, Revscene attracts a more educated demographic of participants IMO.

Kev

[baggdis300]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Exactly. Now go to page 5... look, there's the link again. Click it again.

you made it sound like it would do it automatically...

now you have to be retarded if you keep clicking that...

[Noir]

I've always thought it's not really a racial profile but a social profile.

I lived 4 blocks from Granville DT and it's my usual spot for a time a few years ago and I can first handedly say that it doesn't matter what your racial profile is, if you come down with a posse, all thug life, rowdy, and have the air of "I'm going to own this joint," and not submit to authority (bouncers)... you'll get refused.

The reason why you don't hear much from the white demographic that get refused entry or service, is because they can't pull the race card, like brown people do. It may be subjective to me alone but I just want to put it in there that white-groups get refused too (depending on circumstances)

[asahai69]

^ yeah but the thing is that even if you arent rolling in a crew 15 deep, arent rowdy and are just chillin and polite to the bouncers. you may still be denied entry

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by baggdis300

you made it sound like it would do it automatically...

now you have to be retarded if you keep clicking that...

YES! NOW HE UNDERSTANDS! WILL MIRACLES NEVER FUCKING CEASE?!

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Roach

As an East Indian male, I can understand the prejudice against us.

Even through my own life experiences, I have chosen to distance myself from my brethren. Does it mean I'm not proud of my culture? No. I just can't live with the arrogant, egotistical & violent nature of brown guys.

But is that kind of attitude/behavior really a part of your culture? Or just something a few idiots have picked up along the way?

[Noir]

Originally Posted by asahai69

^ yeah but the thing is that even if you arent rolling in a crew 15 deep, arent rowdy and are just chillin and polite to the bouncers. you may still be denied entry

Not sure about that. It all depends how one carries themselves. I have EI friends that look, talk, walk very polished and they have no probs getting anywhere or encountering racism. As far as I can see, they fit in just well.

I wonder why they don't find themselves in the same troubles a lot of EI's tend to speak about?.....

[Roach]

Originally Posted by Soundy

But is that kind of attitude/behavior really a part of your culture? Or just something a few idiots have picked up along the way?

Soundy, I can only speak through my own experiences and therefore don't want to give an anecdotal view on the subject. But since you asked... yes, that attitude & behaviour is a part of our culture in varying degrees.

Every East Indian male has the middle name "Singh". In our culture, "Singh" means Lion. And as we all know, lions are portrayed as being kings of the jungle. Therefore, a king of the jungle mentality has been long engrained in Sikh male mindset.

This mentality has positive and negative consequences. On the positive side, men feel like they are masters of their on destiny and that they should be strong providers for their family. On the downside, men will react aggressively to any sense of challenge or disrespect. This often translates itself into violence. And don't just think it's at the club. Sikh men seem to have a disproportionate rate of violence against their spouses as well (Panghali anyone?).

Once again, I can't cite any statistics. I can only speak to my own life experiences. However, as anecdotal as my view may be, I doubt there are many apnas that can disagree with much of what I'm saying.

We have a problem, and it's not the Donnelly group.

Kev

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Roach

Soundy, I can only speak through my own experiences and therefore don't want to give an anecdotal view on the subject. But since you asked... yes, that attitude & behaviour is a part of our culture in varying degrees.

So you figure (from what you know of it) it's more a cultural thing than a racial thing... I mean, I know plenty of brown guys who fit Noir's description above: clean, polished, mellow attitude... obviously that sort of behavior isn't something that's directly tied to skin color.

Might it not be said then, that these clubs/bouncers are engaging in CULTURAL profiling?

I wonder if a white male brought up in that culture since very early life would have the same sort of attitudes? Semi-rhetorical question; I think there's a good chance he would.

Every East Indian male has the middle name "Singh". In our culture, "Singh" means Lion. And as we all know, lions are portrayed as being kings of the jungle. Therefore, a king of the jungle mentality has been long engrained in Sikh male mindset.

In other words: "always on"?

Interesting, did not know that... I'd been under the impression the "Singh" name was something that some took on to indicate... shall we say, a religious affiliation.

Once again, I can't cite any statistics. I can only speak to my own life experiences. However, as anecdotal as my view may be, I doubt there are many apnas that can disagree with much of what I'm saying.

Well, it sounds like you're someone who has at least looked into the culture you grew up in, if not studied it specifically, which to me makes you more qualified to address the topic.

From my own observations, it seems to me a lot of "issues" like this one are more often culturally-based, rather than racial... but as others have said, "racism" is such a taboo thing (far more than it should be, IMO), it's a far more "effective" response for someone slighted to, as they say, "play the race card". Claiming "cultural profiling" would just draw a MEH from everyone, including David Eby.

I think to some degree, those screaming "racism" are really just attention whoring anyway...

[Death2Theft]

Truth of the matter is stereotypes are formed because there is some degree of truth to them.

[Manic!]

People are making it sound like brown guys are the only ones that have the tough guy attitude but in reality there are no more aggressive than any other skin color it's just that being brown and having a large population in a certain geographical area they stand out. Nightclubs are a magnet for douchebags of all colors. I doubt you would see a reduced violence in areas were the population is mostly white.

[Harvey Specter]

Granville = doucheville.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by Manic!

People are making it sound like brown guys are the only ones that have the tough guy attitude but in reality there are no more aggressive than any other skin color it's just that being brown and having a large population in a certain geographical area they stand out.

I respectfully disagree. On a 'per capita' basis of nightlife 'users' certain ethnicities cause more serious problems on a more regular basis than others.

[Midnitez]

Originally Posted by van_driver

by your logic, icbc should stop letting clais get driving licenses... They'd just be "doing there job" right? Dumbass
Posted via RS Mobile

maybe they looked like douchebags? maybe the clais really cant fricken drive for shits?

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

I respectfully disagree. On a 'per capita' basis of nightlife 'users' certain ethnicities cause more serious problems on a more regular basis than others.

I don't really understand your statement but do you have any stats to back what your saying?

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by Manic!

I don't really understand your statement but do you have any stats to back what your saying?

In my 3+ years of working security in this industry I can say Asians and South Asians caused the majority of the violence problems and almost all the serious ones where police had to be involved (knives, bottles, group beatings, sucker punching people unconscious, etc).

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

In my 3+ years of working security in this industry I can say Asians and South Asians caused the majority of the violence problems and almost all the serious ones where police had to be involved (knives, bottles, group beatings, sucker punching people unconscious, etc).

That's because you work in an area with lots of Asian people. Work in a club in Nanaimo you will see the same stuff done by white people. I doubt there is less violence in Nanaimo than Vancouver. There might be more violence in some places on the island.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by Manic!

That's because you work in an area with lots of Asian people. Work in a club in Nanaimo you will see the same stuff done by white people. I doubt there is less violence in Nanaimo than Vancouver. There might be more violence in some places on the island.

Actually I worked in Victoria where the nightlife is primarily populated by UVic students and wannabe aristocrats. Nanaimo is an exception as it's an HA haven.

You can argue all you want Manic. I'm not racist and trying to single these ethnicities out but any doorman in this region is going to tell you the same thing. That's why the unofficial policies that got the doorman in the OP in trouble exist. He's exceptionally stupid for making it so black and white if he really did say what is being quoted, but as has been proven in this thread noone is surprised. Not even other South Asian men.

[parm104]

Originally Posted by Manic!

That's because you work in an area with lots of Asian people. Work in a club in Nanaimo you will see the same stuff done by white people. I doubt there is less violence in Nanaimo than Vancouver. There might be more violence in some places on the island.

That's the point people are missing here. Experiences will differ not only from LOCATION but also your own DEMOGRAPHIC.

I find it hard to believe that people here don't feel that there aren't just as many tough guy wannabe whites as there are browns. As if there aren't as many gangsters asians as there are brown.

It's easier to pass on judgement on people that we cannot relate to than it is to pass judgement on our own. As I mentioned in my very first post, no doubt there are a lot of East Indians in VANCOUVER that have a tough-guy attitude, but that is a FRACTION of the people that live here.

Your experiences downtown and in clubs may just be an experience with the same people. I can assure you, me being one of them, not all East Indians are regulars downtown and in fact rarely, if ever go clubbing.

Similarly, an East Indian would come into this board and say "what is with these tough-guy whites that always stare you down for no reason."

The color of our skin plays a major role in our day to day experiences. Why have white people called my parents "Taliban" when we're at the mall?! Why do people drive by in their cars and tell us to "go back to our country" when we have religious events?? These are all experiences that many brown people face. The point being is, although there is an obvious issue with "Surrey Jack" brown people, they are a small fraction of the entire brown population in the Lower Mainland and your experiences with them will differ as does your race and location.