Scion FR-S Concept (Toyota 86)

[falcon]

Originally Posted by Timpo

197hp/151lb-ft

Toyota GT 86 (Scion FR-S) Makes Debut: 2011 Tokyo Motor Show

Miata's came with a whopping 100whp/90wtq in the 1.6L cars, and yet many people can't seem to touch the Spec Miata lap times at a lot of tracks all over the states. Hell, the Spec Miata record at Mission is 1:17.xxx. That's fucking fast for a low HP car. My 300whp'd Miata only does 1:14's and that's with me driving the balls off it (and lots of experience on that track).

When will people realize it's not all about power. Power is nice, but a fast car does it not make.

[BoredAtWork]

Originally Posted by hk20000

What bothers me is that toyota kept saying owners will mod it so we made it easier to mod than most. Well eff that there are lazy but rich people out there when it comes to cars. If the sti motor is supposed to go in without much sweat why don't you sell us one with it then!?
Posted via RS Mobile

Because "rich" people do not buy 30k cars. This car is to appeal to people who just start out in career with some spare money.

As for 2.5l, or turbo, that's what mid cycle changes are for. This current one maybe "SR5" of the 86

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by hk20000

What bothers me is that toyota kept saying owners will mod it so we made it easier to mod than most. Well eff that there are lazy but rich people out there when it comes to cars. If the sti motor is supposed to go in without much sweat why don't you sell us one with it then!?
Posted via RS Mobile

Because nobody would buy a 40k-50k+ Toyota/Scion anymore. They would have to badge it a Lexus which isn't their intention. Subaru would more likely sell an STI version.

Toyota is only selling a base for a great car. The 7th gen Celica was a great car until they dropped that pos engine in there that doesn't response to mods at all.

It has potential, depends on the price tag.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Energy]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

that is such a pile of crap

seems like every excuse around low HP cars revolve around 'better handling'. Well shit, of course it handles better, because it is so slow there is no chance for it to go off track.

Hell, even my gf made fun of 180 hp cars on tv commercials back then like 10+ years ago.

Im going to enjoy my 500+ hp cars while you enjoy 200 hp cars. I am gonna be the first one that say it, that doesn't even make any sense.

You have to consider its price before complaining about power. A VW GTI or Civic Si makes about the same power but it is FWD. Even if the toyota had less hp I'd take it for the RWD.

Better handling is no excuse, it is a valid selling point. You have a 500hp car and you can maybe use 20-30% of its capabilities on the road. Or you can have a 200hp car with responsive steering, good brakes, good tires, suspension set up so it turns well, RWD, slick 6 speed, and lightness that puts a smile on your face even during daily driving duties. This is a car made for car enthusiasts who like driving - there are still many people out there that are like that I believe.

Some lotus elises come with less power from a toyota engine and you don't see anyone complaining. What is their thought behind making cars? Good handling and lightness is enough.

[Zyzz]

Originally Posted by Energy

You have to consider its price before complaining about power. A VW GTI or Civic Si makes about the same power but it is FWD. Even if the toyota had less hp I'd take it for the RWD.

Better handling is no excuse, it is a valid selling point. You have a 500hp car and you can maybe use 20-30% of its capabilities on the road. Or you can have a 200hp car with responsive steering, good brakes, good tires, suspension set up so it turns well, RWD, slick 6 speed, and lightness that puts a smile on your face even during daily driving duties. This is a car made for car enthusiasts who like driving - there are still many people out there that are like that I believe.

Some lotus elises come with less power from a toyota engine and you don't see anyone complaining. What is their thought behind making cars? Good handling and lightness is enough.

Or I can have a 4-500hp car with responsive steering, good brakes, good tires, suspension set up so it turns well, RWD, and slick 6 speed.

Coming from a guy who has driven from a civic to a 3er to a m3 to a r8 v10, and driven in asia and NA, I can assure you that I will not have a smile when I have to drive a sub-200 hp car when I come home everyday where I have to climb a steep ass hill to Midlevels. Hell even in Kerrisdale I had to climb a steep hill in my back alley every day. This is just one example.

Lotus doesn't even compare, wtf?

[Energy]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

Or I can have a 4-500hp car with responsive steering, good brakes, good tires, suspension set up so it turns well, RWD, and slick 6 speed.

Coming from a guy who has driven from a civic to a 3er to a m3 to a r8 v10, and driven in asia and NA, I can assure you that I will not have a smile when I have to drive a sub-200 hp car when I come home everyday where I have to climb a steep ass hill to Midlevels. Hell even in Kerrisdale I had to climb a steep hill in my back alley every day. This is just one example.

Lotus doesn't even compare, wtf?

civic to a 3er to a m3 to a r8 v10??

You missed the point. Look at the price for the power and the 86 is reasonable. If you have the cash to blow for an R8 then you won't buy an 86. But for those maybe just graduated or even students this is a good car. And that is their target market anyway, not people who can afford M3s or AMGs.

[hk20000]

Originally Posted by Nlkko

Because nobody would buy a 40k-50k+ Toyota/Scion anymore. They would have to badge it a Lexus which isn't their intention. Subaru would more likely sell an STI version.

Toyota is only selling a base for a great car. The 7th gen Celica was a great car until they dropped that pos engine in there that doesn't response to mods at all.

It has potential, depends on the price tag.
Posted via RS Mobile

True but as it sits even with STI motor it has to be priced well below STI money....at most WRX money....because of its missing 4WD and all those gadgetry of an STi.

[donjalapeno]

The hell is wrong with the people...

Comparing this to a m3

[Zyzz]

Originally Posted by death_blossom

can't agree with you more. this car is all about bringing back the raw driving feel that has been numbed down in most modern cars today.

Originally Posted by Energy

You have a 500hp car and you can maybe use 20-30% of its capabilities on the road. Or you can have a 200hp car with responsive steering, good brakes, good tires, suspension set up so it turns well, RWD, slick 6 speed, and lightness that puts a smile on your face even during daily driving duties.

I am merely responding to these 2 posts, where there are strong implications in them saying that these cars are more 'fun', 'raw' *insert other subjective adjectives here* than most modern real sport cars.

I am not saying this is a bad car. I had fun when I drove the civic too. But to post stuff like the above is just disrespectful to their owners.

[death_blossom]

raw and fun, at an affordable price. how's that?

[bcrdukes]

Hyde v2.0

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Nlkko

Because nobody would buy a 40k-50k+ Toyota/Scion anymore. They would have to badge it a Lexus which isn't their intention. Subaru would more likely sell an STI version.

I would say people would still pay near $100,000 for a Toyota.
What if they bring back the Supra?

Look at the Nissan GT-R for example...it's only a Nissan.

[freakshow]

We should all be thankful that Toyota is at least attempting to make a sporty car.
Honda has forced us to talk about the S2000 for the last 10 years and dream about NSX shaped unicorns.

[Glove]

the attempt was good,

but what the hell were they thinking using the STI motor, but without the turbo?

no matter how you put it, it may be "fun" "sporty" "raw" ect ect.

the fuckin car is still 30 grand, and only has 200hp, and is advertised as a sport compact.

jesus the car will barely be able to go up a steep hill, especially with heavy 18/19 inch wheels

have a spare set of tires in the back, and a passenger,

you aint goin anywhere in a hurry

[bcrdukes]

E30/E36 M3 Spec E30
Porsche 911SC / Carerra
Mazda Miata / Spec
Lotus Elan
Toyota MR2 / MR-S
Spec E30
Honda CRX
Integra Type-R
EG6 / EK9 / EM1 /EP3
Nissan S13/14/15

All a pile of crap and hella slow. Yeah.

[Glove]

all developted 15+ years ago,

you dont see a problem when a motor and car developed in 2013 is being out performed by 20 year old cars? stock?

[bcrdukes]

The point is, newer cars have come a long way in terms of manufacturing and engineering. Newer cars are much more refined and better built. More efficient engines, fuel injection systems, drive train, suspension and software. Not everything is about big numbers. I can hop into an E30 325i and have a blast driving that over an Acura CSX.

Everybody went gaga over the Hyundai Genesis. Oh, wow. A 2.0T engine built by Mitsubishi.

Oh and for the record, they are using a horizontal-4 naturally aspirated motor. This is not the same as an STI motor w/o a turbo. The specs are nowhere near the same.

[CP.AR]

I hope that if this sells well, it will spark Honda to get on their assess on a proper sports car.

HSV in production?? OMGWTF

[Energy]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

I am merely responding to these 2 posts, where there are strong implications in them saying that these cars are more 'fun', 'raw' *insert other subjective adjectives here* than most modern real sport cars.

I am not saying this is a bad car. I had fun when I drove the civic too. But to post stuff like the above is just disrespectful to their owners.

Never said that the 86 is better than an m3. It's that a cheap simple car can provide driving enjoyment. Why do people buy an m3 anyway? Because its the most expensive 3 series? Because it has 420hp? If not for the status people buy it because it is just good to drive. Much like an 86 will be good to drive (as long as Toyota doesn't screw anything up).

There aren't many modern sports cars that are in the same segment as the 86 if you think about it... Actually there is only the miata maybe the 2.0 genesis. That along with the fwd civic si, mazdaspeed3 and gti. Go up a level and you have 370z, Evo, sti etc.

It has everything you need in a sports car with a respectable amount of horsepower and is priced in the range of most people. Definitely something to respect.
Posted via RS Mobile

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Zyzz

I can assure you that I will not have a smile when I have to drive a sub-200 hp car when I come home everyday where I have to climb a steep ass hill to Midlevels.

Originally Posted by Zyzz

I am merely responding to these 2 posts, where there are strong implications in them saying that these cars are more 'fun', 'raw' *insert other subjective adjectives here* than most modern real sport cars.

But to post stuff like the above is just disrespectful to their owners.

PKB?

"Real" sports cars are are light and agile, not the pigs that manufacturers are pushing out today that are closing in on 4000 lbs.

I'm glad to see there'll be a light, affordable, fun car available soon - and that puts a smile on my face as there hasn't been a lot in this segment to choose from after the Celica and RSX vanished - and this car will be RWD!

[JD35]

i want the FR-S so freakin' BAD

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by Energy

There aren't many modern sports cars that are in the same segment as the 86 if you think about it... Actually there is only the miata maybe the 2.0 genesis.
Posted via RS Mobile

The Genesis Coupe is a pig and belong to a different class. The RX-8 and MX-5 are both more relevant to the 86.

Now that I think about it, 30k depends on the options is not that bad. How much is the RX-8? Starting 40k+,have almost no torque and power is at 212hp. Nobody complains about it because its handling is superb...and for fuck sakes, it isn't because "it's too slow that it can't go off the track"

If you don't like to rev, then this car isn't for you. You can go buy luxury cars with V12, V10 engines, wall of torques at any given RPM so you can waft with your automatic gearbox.

I also see this under the hood in the future:

[twitchyzero]

Toyota has finally developd some lightweight RWD car that we've all been begging for and people are still complaining?

Originally Posted by BoredAtWork

As for 2.5l, or turbo, that's what mid cycle changes are for. This current one maybe "SR5" of the 86

+1...i can't believe no one has brought this up yet in here. even If they are going to throw a turbo in with 300whp...it's going to cannibalize STI sales. It's meant to be a car that starts at 25k...not meant to play with the Evolution, 370z,Impreza STI

[death_blossom]

they should sell the GT86 w/o an engine, lol. then the crazy tuners can dump in whatever engine they want.

[insomniac]

speaking of the size comparison