The Official 2011/2012 Canucks Thread

[b0unce. [?]]

Originally Posted by jeedee

When was the last time you've seen a Norris candidate who makes 4M?

Well, right now Edler has a pretty good shot at Norris and he's making 3.5M I think? Under 4M def.

[SpuGen]

Not even gonna bother editing out his name.


Chris Hoppie
Remember these words "Leafs win cup in the next 5 years"

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[UFO]

Originally Posted by jeedee

When was the last time you've seen a Norris candidate who makes 4M?

Even if it means paying Weber 7-8M for long term, I'd do it. He's that missing top 4, right side dman, right hand shot the Canucks are missing.

My point is you don't need a Norris candidate to win the cup. 2 solid middle of the line D man will do much more down the line for you than a single Norris candidate who makes the same salary as the 2 combined.

If we need to bring in a 8M d-man to play with Edler, then maybe Edler isn't as good as we all think he is? Remember Edler will be up for new money too, and he is realistically a 5+M player. So you want to have 12+M tied up in your top D pairing?

MG should have learned his lesson with signing big $ UFA's in Sundin. If for whatever reason he lands Weber at anything more than 5M a year, I will be disappoint, but I'm sure there will be many wet dreams at the near mention of Weber in a Canuck uniform.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Cr33pUh

What about Suter?

Suter, being a pending UFA and perpetual second fiddle to Weber (who is the captain, the face of the franchise, the Norris candidate) so while it is so extremely unlikely that we would put something together that would somehow convince one of the best GMs in the NHL to make an absolutely ridiculous trade to a conference rival that ousted their team from the playoffs last year what could possibly be the final piece to the Canucks winning the Stanley Cup and therefore probably beating them AGAIN this playoffs...

...it's extremely unlikely but not beyond the realm of possibility.

Actually, no the more I think about it, the stupider the idea of the Canucks trading for Suter and the Preds actually taking the trade is. So yes, it is impossible for the Canucks to get Suter.

The trade would be enormous to get Nashville to put it above their own playoff run and a trade that enormous wouldn't be in the Canucks favor...and Mike Gillis isn't retarded.

So think about your fucking trades. It's damned near impossible anyone in the top-8 spots in the West is going to trade with each other before the deadline and it's even more impossible for a trade of that magnitude (top pair D man for what has to be Schneider or Hodgson plus Raymond, and something else.) to happen between conference rivals at this time of the year. I wouldn't even expect a big trade from anyone still in the playoffs to the Canucks. It will be from bottom feeders and bubble teams from the East (i.e. Montreal).

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul

For how long?

For as long as that player is with the Canucks.

But if they don't get traded, I get to ban whoever brings up the possibility of their trades for the length of time those players are not in Canucks uniforms.

So if they are traded to the Canucks at the draft, your ban is til then. If they never get traded to the Canucks, well...

[dbaz]

In response to Canucks not needing a number 1 dman. Most teams if not all that win the championship have a defenceman who was considered a number 1 dman at that time. The Canucks do not have that type of dominating dman. They have 2's and 3's. Only exception I really see is the Hurricanes. Many will look at foote and question me but during those times he was a number 1 shut down dman in the trap era same with hatcher. Most if not all of these were/are norris candidates, coincidence? too go with this each team had a 3rd and 4th line that always had veteran that was a proven playoff performer. draper, madden, keane, anderchyuk, recchi etc

1994 New York Rangers - leetch
1995 New Jersey Devils -niedermeyer stevens
1996 Colorado Avalanche - foote
1997 Detroit Red Wings - lidstrom
1998 Detroit Red Wings -lidstrom
1999 Dallas Stars - zubov, hatcher
2000 New Jersey Devils - niedermeyer, stevens
2001 Colorado Avalanche - bourque, foote, blake
2002 Detroit Red Wings - lidstrom
2003 New Jersey Devils - niedermeyer
2004 Tampa Bay Lightning - boyle
2006 Carolina Hurricanes -
2007 Anaheim Ducks - niedermeyer, pronger
2008 Detroit Red Wings - lidstrom
2009 Pittsburgh Penguins - letang
2010 Chicago Blackhawks - keith
2011 Boston Bruins - chara

[Not really racist!]

^ i was just about to post that shit

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by UFO

So you want to have 12+M tied up in your top D pairing?.

I wouldn't mind 12M tied up LONG TERM.

MG's mindset is to be have a winning franchise like Detroit. If it means spending 12M on 2 Norris-type defencemen for 6+ years, so be it.

I was just about to post what dbaz just did . Edler could possibly be a Norris candidate, but he's still a #2 defencemen.

My god do I miss Ehrhoff.

[PornMaster]

Originally Posted by SpuGen

Not even gonna bother editing out his name.


Chris Hoppie
Remember these words "Leafs win cup in the next 5 years"

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Chris Hoppie | Facebook

That guy lol?

hes been saying leafs will win the cup since elementary school like 2002? HAHAHA

[UFO]

That list is no coincidence, but it also does not tell the whole story. In the last 10 years, only 2 d-men have won the Conn Smythe. Chara, Keith, and Letang did not win their teams the cup. And people are expecting that if a Weber comes here he will come in bringing the cup with him...how about no. How many predicted that Boston would win the cup prior to the start of the 2010 season? They barely, just barely got by Tampa in the East finals. If Tampa had made it through, and won, who would their Norris player be?

Hey, it'd be great to have a Norris candidate/winner on our team. You need to think about what it costs to bring in somebody like that. You trade for that player, you are FOR SURE leveraging a big part of your team's future and likely a big part of the present. You sign that player, you are FOR SURE eating up a big chunk of your cap space or giving out a silly term. Either of these tradeoffs will leave the team worse off than without the Weber-type player. Getting this Weber-type player is not the final piece that guarantees the Canucks the cup, nothing guarantees it.

[kwy]

Ehrhoff.

[dbaz]

Seriously you are arguing that because they don't win a conn smythe they arnt worth it? Conn Smythe is usually based on stats. Most points, saves, shut outs. It rarely ever goes to the dman that logs 30+ mins a game against the oppositions top players every game. Honestly Id sell the farm for a #1 dman, or if luongo/schnieder was requested in the deal too Id do it. With 2 good goalies either is worth giving up for the dman. The canucks have the lineup for years to compete. The top 3 lines are basically set for the next 5 years. Due to rfa, long term contracts and people that want to stay here. They are missing the veteran leader that can be acquired easily at the deadline and a dominating dman, that is it. Realistically it wont happen before the playoffs. But it is possible to acquire before next year.

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by UFO

That list is no coincidence, but it also does not tell the whole story. In the last 10 years, only 2 d-men have won the Conn Smythe. Chara, Keith, and Letang did not win their teams the cup. And people are expecting that if a Weber comes here he will come in bringing the cup with him...how about no. How many predicted that Boston would win the cup prior to the start of the 2010 season? They barely, just barely got by Tampa in the East finals. If Tampa had made it through, and won, who would their Norris player be?

The Conn Smythe is an irrelevant trophy. It always goes to the top point getter in the playoffs, or to the goalie who had monster stats. Both of which, do not involve defencemen.

Chara, Keith, and Letang DID help their teams the cup. It's not "if a Weber", it's "IF Weber" comes here he WOULD help the Canucks win the cup. Just look at the impact Ehrhoff did for the Canucks. Weber is just a bigger upgrade over a Ehrhoff-less, Canucks squad.

If Tampa Bay made it through and won, they wouldn't have one. Correct. However, Carolina didn't have a Norris player either. Which would make TB another exception just like Carolina.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by jeedee

I wouldn't mind 12M tied up LONG TERM.

MG's mindset is to be have a winning franchise like Detroit. If it means spending 12M on 2 Norris-type defencemen for 6+ years, so be it.

I was just about to post what dbaz just did . Edler could possibly be a Norris candidate, but he's still a #2 defencemen.

My god do I miss Ehrhoff.

Ehrhoff was awesome, but for what he held out for and got, I would have told him to go take a hike too.

You won't consider Edler a #1 d-man but you will with Ehrhoff though? C'mon

If we win the cup this year and Edler continues his development, he'll be added to that list dbaz posted and this discussion will be moot. Except for the fact that we don't need Weber.

[dbaz]

Edler isnt a number one even if we win, hes still number 2. He isnt dominate enough yet. Ehrhoff wasnt a number 1 either nor never will be. He god mad money for his offensive talent fromm a team with no offensive dmen

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by UFO

Ehrhoff was awesome, but for what he held out for and got, I would have told him to go take a hike too.

You won't consider Edler a #1 d-man but you will with Ehrhoff though? C'mon

If we win the cup this year and Edler continues his development, he'll be added to that list dbaz posted and this discussion will be moot. Except for the fact that we don't need Weber.

IF he took the Bieksa contract he was offered, would you tell him to hike aswell?

I would consider Ehrhoff the Canucks' #1 d-man, LAST year. Just look at what he did for the powerplay last year vs the powerplay this year.

So let me get this straight. Lets just assume Weber is available. You think the Canucks don't need him? Look at next years roster minus the UFA's [aka Salo] and tell me again the Canucks don't want/need him.

[dinamix]

who needs dmen when you got the sedins and 2 sick goalies

[jeedee]

notsureifsrs

[UFO]

I brought up the Conn Smythe because people are touting Weber as the final piece guaranteeing us the Cup. He is not.

And I can argue Weber's offensive upside is overrated due to playing on a team with no offense period.

If 'hoff took Bieksa's contract, that would be fine. He did not, he's getting paid 10M this year and his 4M cap hit will be with him for 9 more years. Right now, he is at best a 5M d-man. 3-5 years from now, maybe only a 2M player. Definitely not the franchise type player his 10 year 40M contract says he is. The Canucks PP was on fire prior to this recent funk and that was without Ehrhoff or any 'true' #1 d-man.

EVERY team needs and would love Weber, heck I'd love my top 4 d-men to all be Norris caliber if we're going to play that extreme. But the question is does our current team need a top prospect+current roster player or 2 (depth)+a first rounder more or a single Weber more? No I don't think we NEED a Weber at 7-8M. We need a Weber at 5M, whether its actually Weber or not remains to be seen.

Whether its through UFA or through trades, the market price for a bonafide #1 d-man is too high. You sacrifice too much of your current roster or your future to get this guy, and I for one don't think the returns are there to make it worthwhile.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by dinamix

who needs dmen when you got the sedins and 2 sick goalies

We did.

Last year.

A healthy Hamhuis could've tipped the balance.

[punkwax]

I hate to say this, but...

If Boston didn't have Chara there is a strong argument that the Canucks would have won the Cup. A legit #1 D man may not single handedly win you a Cup, but he may stop another team's best players from doing it.

...I threw up in my mouth a little.

[dinamix]

Originally Posted by Ronin

We did.

Last year.

A healthy Hamhuis could've tipped the balance.

no. thomas happened. injuries are part of the game.

the d-men argument is dumb. almost 90% of the teams in the playoffs have stud defensemen. its whether or not they show up or not.

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by UFO

And I can argue Weber's offensive upside is overrated due to playing on a team with no offense period.

Whether its through UFA or through trades, the market price for a bonafide #1 d-man is too high. You sacrifice too much of your current roster or your future to get this guy, and I for one don't think the returns are there to make it worthwhile.

Are you serious? The guy was 4th in goals scored by a dman 2 years ago, 5th in goals by a dman last year and tied for 3rd scored by a dman this year on a team with NO offense. Imagine him with an offensive team like the Canucks.

That's the thing though. #1 d-men don't grow on trees. The guy is only 26, and has yet to reach his full potential. I get what you're saying about the price being too high for him, but if it meant giving up the future or signing him to a long term contract; I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Like you mentioned earlier about having 2, 3.5-4M dmen. Here's the thing though. We just need that ONE offensive, right side, right hand shot dman. Not 2.

Originally Posted by dinamix

the d-men argument is dumb. almost 90% of the teams in the playoffs have stud defensemen. its whether or not they show up or not.

"It's whether or not they show up or not". The same can be said for forwards and goalies.

[Mike Oxbig]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb

I hate to say this, but...

If Boston didn't have Chara there is a strong argument that the Canucks would have won the Cup. A legit #1 D man may not single handedly win you a Cup, but he may stop another team's best players from doing it.

...I threw up in my mouth a little.

wtf
burrows walked around chara game 1 & 2, it was tim thomas who stole the cup from us when luongo called him out!

Carolina did not have a norris caliber defencemen because the whole team including top lines were playing defence. It was very impressive!

[RiceIntegraRS]

All this trade talk debating is actually starting to give me a headache. I have complete faith MG will make the right moves at the deadline, cause his goals are the same as our expectations. A Stanley Cup.