If you cant afford to buy a house in GVA, would you still settle here FOR GOOD?

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I used to own a house, now I rent. Thus I can appreciate why people want to own a house, I enjoyed it while I did.

I bought a house cause "it was the thing to do" and affordable at the time (2003). I wouldn't buy today cause it is not affordable, and I've learned more about the pitfalls of home ownership.

For instance, I rent a 2bdrm condo in Kits for $1800/mn. The same condo sells for $500K, and with 10% down on 30yr mortgage the payment would still be $2150 + $300 condo fee + $200 property tax. That's $850 more to own than to rent, at the lowest rates and longest amortization. Meanwhile you're only paying down the principal $650/mn.

Thus without house appreciation, you're negative $200/mn owning vs renting. So who's throwing away money now?

Then consider that house values don't always appreciate. We are nearing the end of a long run of appreciation, and history tells us that is usually followed by a claw back or a long flat period. For every year house values don't appreciate, you lose with respect to inflation.

Then consider the costs of maintenance. Houses don't last forever, certainly not the ones they build today. I put about $5K into my house in the 5 years I owned it in basic maintenance and upkeep. I put $0 into my rental, and don't do any of the work myself.

On that note - having a 20x20' patch of backyard is overrated. Its not big enough to do anything useful, and you have to mow it once a week. I prefer the beach, the city takes care of it, I just walk 4 blocks and enjoy it.

I reno'd my home, adding tile, built in units, deck, fence, landscaping, ... it was not cheap yet it was fun. Obviously I cannot do the same while renting - yet if I get tired of where I'm renting, I just find a nicer place and move. No hassles of renos, no expense of renos. Especially with condos, since even if you own there's a limited amount you can reno (there's only so much space!) so its often easier to move than reno a condo.

Renting is more stable than owning. Why? If you lose your job, you still have that high mortgage payment to make and you're stuck in that area looking for a job. If I lose my job I can give my landlord a month's notice, move somewhere cheaper, or move somewhere there is a job.

So the question is: why do you foolishly think renting is throwing money away? Did you just buy into the hype without actually thinking for yourself? No worries, I did too when I bought, I'm just glad I've had the chance to reflect on it without being caught in a wealth trap.

Occasionally, I want to award someone with an EPIC POST icon or something. This is one of those times. Fantastic post!

[Death2Theft]

So from this post I gather that toronton has no good food and women
Montreal/Alberta has good food and women just bad winters
You like to drive 8 hours to and from abby to snowboard.
How can vancouver not have beaches we are surrounded by water and a shipping port.

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I have settled in Vancouver. Surrey to be specific. I'm originally from Rio de Janeiro, but I have lived in Cleveland too. Surrey is way nicer than Cleveland (at least it's not Detroit!), but not as nice as Rio, of course. There's no violence here whatsoever (at least by my standards), people are nice, easy-ish access to transportation, and while I overpaid for my condo, I didn't buy it with purely investment in mind, especially the way shit is going.

I would not move to Toronto, unless we were talking low six figures. Even then, I can get that in Vancouver. I went to Toronto in the summer, and it was just like Rio, except without the good food, beaches and beautiful women. Hot and muggy. Yuck.

Montreal is like Cleveland. Bad winters. Pass.

My brother's girlfriend is from Edmonton. Fucking tundra in the winter. Pass.

GVRD is nice. Not thinking of leaving.

Edit: Oh, yeah, I wouldn't buy a house in Vancouver. If I had a million to drop on a house, I'd buy something in Abbotsford, on top of a hill, overlooking all those beautiful mountains. And then drive to Whistler if I wanted to snowboard. It's not as if Vancouver has beaches anyway.

[wouwou]

Nice topic! I have been wondering the same thing and debating between Van and Toronto.

I have been working in China for the past year, and by next year I should have made enough to 1, outright buys a townhouse/condo under 350K in Toronto, 2, put down a pretty decent down payment for a single family house in Richmond hill/ Mississauga area in Ont; 3, put down a decent down payment for a relatively smaller townhouse in GVRD.

I LOVE Vancouver for its weather (I actually like the rain and the people are amazing), but the housing price is outright ridiculous and highly overvalued IMO, and Toronto on the other hand is a lot more affordable. Career-wise Van has struck me as a more relaxed place, and career jobs are very hard to come-by while Toronto has more openings (and more competition, I know).

If I am single, I will probably live like Taylor192 and live comfortably with a rental property/investment income and renting a place for my own, but I married with a 2 yr old, and I can not take more nagging from my wife about buying a place anymore lol.

[drunkrussian]

^lol @ the nagging part.

Honestly, though it sounds like vancouver is a better match for you (ie weather), i bet if you move, in 5 years max you'll be so used to it and won't regret it.

With that said, you should just decide if you're more career-minded or more about enjoying your life. If you really enjoy vancouver more, and it's just a bit less affordable for you, who cares? What are you gonna do with your bigger house in...missasauga? I'd rather have a smaller house in vancouver in that case. On the other hand, if you really think you can make more there and enjoy your life because of that, move there instead lol. It's not like you're deciding between vancouver and nigeria here lol...both will be more than fine

[no_clue]

Unfortunately I think that if you want a greater chance of "making it rich", you have
to leave Vancouver and head east or leave the country or own a successful business. More opportunities plus taxes are lower if you leave Canada for a decent salary. However, I noticed that most of the rich in Vancouver are business owners, as they can deduct their expenses to lower their income tax. Imagine earning an $250 000 salary, only for the government to tax nearly half of it.

[Senna4ever]

I'm a third generation Vancouverite (my grandfather moved to Vancouver in 1918 to escape the draft in Japan)...I can't imagine living anywhere else.

[LiquidTurbo]

Don't think like that, there's lots of good places out there to live. I know a lot of people that have never moved anywhere else or even traveled outside the city. Hell they've never even been to Abbotsford. But they blindly proclaim it's the best place on earth.. which is kind of a narrow kind of thinking.

[Senna4ever]

I'm sure there are other great places to live, but not for me. Maybe it's narrow, but I like it here just fine - I have no desire to live anywhere else. I've lived in Japan (Hiroshima & Tokyo) for a bit and hated it.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by Death2Theft

So from this post I gather that toronton has no good food and women
Montreal/Alberta has good food and women just bad winters
You like to drive 8 hours to and from abby to snowboard.
How can vancouver not have beaches we are surrounded by water and a shipping port.

Compared to Rio, fuck no. Compared to Vancouver, it's the same.

Not sure about the food in those places. Montreal should be decent because of all the French influence. Terrible winters, though. No idea on women, although I hear they are hot.

8 hours? You nuts? more like 3 each way, but who cares? At last I'm not paying through the nose for some shit "high end" apartment in Yaletown, that oh by the way more often than not has laminate floors and some sort of fake granite-looking countertop.

And that thing with thick dark grey sand near the water isn't *really* a beach.

This is not a beach:



This, however, is something I would consider a beach:



If Vancouver was so full of beaches, people wouldn't be going to Mexico for their beaches.

[SFUguy]

cross border shopping in either calgary or edmonton is a long ass drive......

but the thing is they will refund you tax....... tee hee hee

[RFlush]

It's quite sad seeing people say they will live in Vancouver for the rest of their life since they grew up here and love it.

People should explore the world, or at least their own country and see things from a different perspective before making such a judgement. But that's typical Vancouver mentality. Live in a bubble, die in a bubble.
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[taylor192]

Originally Posted by RFlush

It's quite sad seeing people say they will live in Vancouver for the rest of their life since they grew up here and love it.

People should explore the world, or at least their own country and see things from a different perspective before making such a judgement. But that's typical Vancouver mentality. Live in a bubble, die in a bubble.
Posted via RS Mobile

That's not sad, and its not just Vancouverites, its human nature. Most of the world will settle within a few kms of where they grew up. Its where their family and friends are, and these support systems are often a good reason to stay.

[Jermyzy]

Originally Posted by AWDTurboLuvr

Quebec City (outside the tourist areas) are noticeably not very nice to minorities, especially if you do not speak French-Canadian. However, using rudimentary French-Canadian, you will be in fine in Montreal. As long as you try to speak the language, they will be okay with you...especially amongst the younger generation there.

I found this to be the case when I went to Montreal a couple of years ago. Started with a couple basic french phrases before excusing myself to using English. Had no problems with service whatsoever.

[wouwou]

Originally Posted by RFlush

It's quite sad seeing people say they will live in Vancouver for the rest of their life since they grew up here and love it.

People should explore the world, or at least their own country and see things from a different perspective before making such a judgement. But that's typical Vancouver mentality. Live in a bubble, die in a bubble.
Posted via RS Mobile

easy access to friends and family aside, Vancouver has one of the most comfortable lifestyle that I've seem as long as you have a steady income.

Weather is nice (imo anyways), a great variety of cuisine choices, people are friendly, streets are safe (yes it is, even after you factor in C-lai driving) etc.

Overall it's a great place to raise a kid

[EndLeSS8]

Originally Posted by RFlush

It's quite sad seeing people say they will live in Vancouver for the rest of their life since they grew up here and love it.

People should explore the world, or at least their own country and see things from a different perspective before making such a judgement. But that's typical Vancouver mentality. Live in a bubble, die in a bubble.
Posted via RS Mobile

IMO this is the truest post in the entire thread.

[RFlush]

Wouwou, you are correct, Vancouver is a great place to raise a kid depending on what you want. For you, you are at that stage where you need to consider this for family planning and from what I gather, you have been working in China and can understand different culturues and cities and see what suites your needs.

My post was more directed to those who are in their early stages of life (majority of RS) who have the mentality to stay here only because that is all they know. They are afraid to take risks and leave their sheltered lives just because they lived here for the first quater of their life. Vancouver is no doubt a beautiful city, but people need to go out to compare first, not just make irrational judgements. But like I said, typical Vancouver mentality; feel entitled to things and never live outside their buble.

Originally Posted by wouwou

easy access to friends and family aside, Vancouver has one of the most comfortable lifestyle that I've seem as long as you have a steady income.

Weather is nice (imo anyways), a great variety of cuisine choices, people are friendly, streets are safe (yes it is, even after you factor in C-lai driving) etc.

Overall it's a great place to raise a kid

Posted via RS Mobile

[twitchyzero]

I guess if you do a lot of outdoor activities, then yes Vancouver is great for that. But for those that are saying there's lots to do within few hours of driving...I disagree...it always seem to be either the island, bellingham/seattle, or whistler. If you live in the states, roadtrip possibilities are so much better (thanks to their vast network of freeways).

The only other place I would considering living for more than a year within this country other than Vancouver would probably be Montreal. For a smaller city feel I would definately wanna try out the places in maritime like charlottetown

[SkinnyPupp]

I spent a week in New Brunswick before. The people seem nice, but man if you think Vancouver or Edmonton or Calgary are boring....

[Tapioca]

There's opportunities to make money in Vancouver if you're willing to be shady about it. I don't mean the obvious ways like dealing drugs or other illegal goods. For example, a lot of mining companies make their home in Vancouver. I used to work for a major bank and I used to process wire transfers for these companies. Lots of money moving around based on false premises.

Sometimes I do lament what Vancouver has become... I grew up in the 80s so I remember when Vancouver was a great place to raise children for families on modest incomes. Then Expo 86 happened and Vander Zalm sold False Creek for a penny to Concord Pacific and the rest is history. Condo disease and real estate speculation, offshore money, immigration (from overseas and within Canada) and this myth that we're world-class.

The city has changed, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Still, I wouldn't live anywhere else in Canada though unless they paid me double.

[wouwou]

Originally Posted by RFlush

Wouwou, you are correct, Vancouver is a great place to raise a kid depending on what you want. For you, you are at that stage where you need to consider this for family planning and from what I gather, you have been working in China and can understand different culturues and cities and see what suites your needs.

My post was more directed to those who are in their early stages of life (majority of RS) who have the mentality to stay here only because that is all they know. They are afraid to take risks and leave their sheltered lives just because they lived here for the first quater of their life. Vancouver is no doubt a beautiful city, but people need to go out to compare first, not just make irrational judgements. But like I said, typical Vancouver mentality; feel entitled to things and never live outside their buble.

Posted via RS Mobile

My apology for my "half" post, I was on a conference call when I saw your post replied without much thought.

You are right, if you are single, young, Vancouver is PROBABLY not the place for you to spend your 20s-30s. The world is full of wonders and people should really get out more to experience everything.

I have been to Europe, South East Asia, and recently been working in HK and China. I can say that for a single man who is willing to work, Vancouver is pretty lacking in terms of opportunities and the return is similarly bad.

For someone in their 20s that's MURDER, since this is the age where you are able to take risks and can afford to lose it all.

Not taking risks when you are young pretty much = driving a Taurus in your 30s one day and realize you fucked up your life for good. 4 years ago I was able to play options and margin (on a fucked up level) which yielded a sizable profit. There is no way I can do that because I have a lot more responsibilities as a husband and a father to take that risk.

So in short, if you are young and single, GTFO and live a little, since your family and friends are already in Vancouver, the worst you can get is to get back to where you are.

[wouwou]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Sometimes I do lament what Vancouver has become... I grew up in the 80s so I remember when Vancouver was a great place to raise children for families on modest incomes. Then Expo 86 happened and Vander Zalm sold False Creek for a penny to Concord Pacific and the rest is history. Condo disease and real estate speculation, offshore money, immigration (from overseas and within Canada) and this myth that we're world-class.

On the immigration topic, personally I consider it a positive factor for me because there's a lot more dumber people (C-lais), a lot more customers (again, C-lais), and a lot more high-quality cheap labor (what, you have a PHD from India? You qualify as my admin assistant for 30k a year, congratz!)

Sure they drive up the real estate prices and I hate them for that, but without the proper knowledge to utilize the money they bring in, they are just a really good potential market segment, nothing more.

[SFUguy]

Okay slightly off-topic but still applicable:

Would you raise your kids up in Vancouver?

Looking at the kids now, it seems to get worse and worse. They don't seem to have any direction in life except trying to be hardcore. All they know is Gucci murses, crooks & castles, nammer squats, and hoodrat bitches with right-angled eyebrows? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE KIDS IN VANCOUVER NOWADAYS?!!!!!!!


Man... I grew up in the Vancouver East side and I picked up so much negative influence as a youth it was scary! I'm still trying to weed out some of the bullshit out of my system as I type this right now.

[goo3]

^ Stop being a pussy.

[JV6]

Been around the world and landed on almost every continent, amazing experience I will never forget! Vancouver will always be home, born here and will die here.

[spoon.ek9]

Originally Posted by SFUguy

Okay slightly off-topic but still applicable:

Would you raise your kids up in Vancouver?

Looking at the kids now, it seems to get worse and worse. They don't seem to have any direction in life except trying to be hardcore. All they know is Gucci murses, crooks & castles, nammer squats, and hoodrat bitches with right-angled eyebrows? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE KIDS IN VANCOUVER NOWADAYS?!!!!!!!


Man... I grew up in the Vancouver East side and I picked up so much negative influence as a youth it was scary! I'm still trying to weed out some of the bullshit out of my system as I type this right now.

kids are a product of the parenting they receive. there are still plenty of people who teach their kids properly and spend enough time with them to prepare them for these challenges. has it become worse in recent years? i'd say yes, but a large part of it comes from parents who are either too busy to spend the needed time parenting or parents who are too lazy and stupid to actually raise the children they should have never had.

the parents that are too busy are either too concerned with becoming rich or simply have to over work themselves to keep the family afloat.