Canada to strip 1,800 of citizenship

[StylinRed]

its hilarious reading immigrants (or whose parents are immigrants) bitching about other immigrants

[falcon]

Originally Posted by Manic!

So they don't eat while here?

Paying %12 tax on your food, is not the same as me forking out $20,000 of my annual income to taxes AND my $60.50/mo for MSP.

Get your head on straight.

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by zz

Please elaborate on your conclusions.

Originally Posted by taylor192

Like all those people in Lebanon who we have spent $100M to evacuate even though they were living there.

Canada needs to change its citizenship laws. If you're not living here, you lose it.

According to Taylor people that don't live in Canada should lose their citizenship. Really? Where do you draw the line on residency? If someone is out of the country for 6 months, 5 years, or 10 years, where do you draw the line? You can't, which is why a policy like this doesn't exist anywhere with any nation. Millions of people around the globe live, work, vacation, retire, etc for extended periods of time in foreign countries. No country will axe your citizenship and leave you afloat because, well, that would just be wrong. You can renounce your citizenship and take up another, or you can be one of those "live on the land" people if that's your choice but you will never be stripped of it just because you haven't been home enough. Taylor will back peddle and say "Oh situation X, Y and Z are different" and then try to change the topic because he's been caught making a stupid generalization, but that's just what trolls do.

As for our government spending money to evacuate our citizens out of danger zones we should be thankful they can and will do that! Period! Our government would come to the aid of it's foreign based citizens whether it's Lebanon, Germany, Hong Kong, or anywhere else if the situation called for it. Taylor suggests this is a poor use of our resources and tax dollars These people are Canadian citizens, native born or not we will assist them all the same, because that's what a good country does for it's people.

As for NewGirl, she clearly has no idea what the Department of National Defense does or stands for. Their job is to protect the nation and it's interests both at home and abroad. That includes being part of major international forces (like the UN) that go in and help people who can't help themselves. They do so selflessly because it is the right thing to do. But NewGirl thinks that's all a waste of money. That statement is equivalent to the government's of the world saying "Fuck Europe, let them sort it out" during WWI and WWII because they didn't want to pay for the cost of a war. As I said that is astounding ignorance.

According to these two goofs my family would have been stripped of our citizenship and forced out of jobs because we have lived and worked overseas for many years for a military that we shouldn't waste money on. I guess that's what my parents deserve for going where needed in defense of the country we call home. Nice patriotism guys. If I was the over-sensitive type I'd probably be offended.

The OP posted about people losing their citizenship because it was obtained fraudulently or illegally. This is a good thing, and it shows that our government wants to protect authentic citizens that contribute (mostly) from losing it's true value. If one could obtain citizenship illegally without penalty they might as well get it out of a Crackerjack box.

[gars]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I left that open to anyone who wants to look it up.

The material I've read state the Tutsis are the wealthier of the 2, and when your country is starved of resources, who are you going to attack? Other Hutus with little? or a Tutsi who may not have much either, yet has more than you?

Ontop of that, of those killed there was a lot of Hutu on Hutu killings, showing it wasn't just Hutu wanting to wipe out Tutsis exclusively.

The Tutsi's have held a monarchy in the area which didn't start much earlier than when the Belgiums came during the colonial era. When the Belgiums came, they made it worse by puting the Tusi's in greater power - giving them better jobs, and basically making the Hutu's lower class citizens or slaves.

I believe it was in the 1960's where the Hutu's finally overthrows the gov't, and takes over. There are civil wars, but yes, because of what the Belgiums did, the Tutsis were generally wealthier.

Yes, there was Hutu on Hutu killing - but it was mainly against those who were against the gov't.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by taylor192

I understand a system like this will never be perfect, yet here's an example of how it can be abused:

My sisters both live in the US and work. They can work their entire adult lives in the US, never pay a dime of taxes to Canada, then return and use our healthcare system in retirement. Fair? No way.

What about people who live in Ontario all there lives and don't pay a single sent to BC's MSP and then come here to retire?

[bing]

Originally Posted by gars

The Tutsi's have held a monarchy in the area which didn't start much earlier than when the Belgiums came during the colonial era. When the Belgiums came, they made it worse by puting the Tusi's in greater power - giving them better jobs, and basically making the Hutu's lower class citizens or slaves.

I believe it was in the 1960's where the Hutu's finally overthrows the gov't, and takes over. There are civil wars, but yes, because of what the Belgiums did, the Tutsis were generally wealthier.

Yes, there was Hutu on Hutu killing - but it was mainly against those who were against the gov't.

from the version I read (likely from a leftist stance), colonial history, price of coffee, world bank and imf policies, global interests of Western nations, interests of international aid agencies, and Western attitudes also played a role. The whole colonial thing started with the Germans apparently who instilled their racist ideology by making the taller Tutsi's in charge. Later on it was the Belgians and when the Tutsi's began to campaign for independence, the Belgians shifted their support to the Hutu because they thought they would be easier to control. When clashes broke out, they did little to nothing to stop it, even allowing the Hutu elite to engineer a coup and eventually gain independence.

[quasi]

The part I hate is they appeal from here on our dime. They should be deported right away and if they want to appeal they can do it from their Country of origin.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by quasi

The part I hate is they appeal from here on our dime. They should be deported right away and if they want to appeal they can do it from their Country of origin.

If an appeal was legitimate, that persons life would be so completely fucked over for no reason if we sent them back without due process.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

If an appeal was legitimate, that persons life would be so completely fucked over for no reason if we sent them back without due process.

Same argument is used against the death penalty. Slipery slope but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think it should be drawn on the side that favors the Canadian taxpayer.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by JD¹³

According to these two goofs my family would have been stripped of our citizenship and forced out of jobs because we have lived and worked overseas for many years for a military that we shouldn't waste money on. I guess that's what my parents deserve for going where needed in defense of the country we call home. Nice patriotism guys. If I was the over-sensitive type I'd probably be offended.

You are overly sensitive and an idiot if you think I wanted military personnel and their families living abroad to lose their citizen. Yet using your own words

Originally Posted by JD¹³

but that's just what trolls do.

You absolutely knew my comment was over-the-top, you even admit it and ignore my other posts since and my description of how my own family can abuse the system. Happy trolling, dumbass.

Now once you get your military hard-on off, we can discuss what happened in Lebanon. There's a lot of Lebanese in Ottawa, I'm very familiar with what happens. They come here, get their citizenship, then go back. All those "citizens" are not just visiting Lebanon, they are living there. It may be arbitrary to say if they live there 5 years they forfeit their citizenship, yet they are taking advantage of another arbitrary rule to get their citizenship then leave and come back many years later when they need what Canada offers.

Our citizenship shouldn't be a revolving door.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by quasi

Same argument is used against the death penalty. Slipery slope but the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think it should be drawn on the side that favors the Canadian taxpayer.

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.

[anti_rice]

Originally Posted by gars

I agree - I don't usually have problems with any place I go to. But honestly, why should other people care that YOU can't order at the place you want to. The business has a right to run it how they want to. If they don't want to hire people who speak english, it's their prerogative. If they lose business because people can't order in english, it's their own fault.

That's like saying - the government should crack down on restaurants with bad service.

First of all if you are going to run a business you better hope the owner cares how their customers order otherwise their business would go downhill. But that's not the point we are trying to make. The point is if you are going to immigrate to an english speaking country then immigrants should learn some basic english.

If you're saying other people shouldn't care how I order then maybe the government shouldn't care to put chinese on information brochures. Maybe ICBC shouldn't care to write the road sense book in chinese either. Maybe there would be less immigrants on the road that can't drive cause they wouldn't be able to complete their knowledge test.

[gars]

Originally Posted by anti_rice

First of all if you are going to run a business you better hope the owner cares how their customers order otherwise their business would go downhill. But that's not the point we are trying to make. The point is if you are going to immigrate to an english speaking country then immigrants should learn some basic english.

If you're saying other people shouldn't care how I order then maybe the government shouldn't care to put chinese on information brochures. Maybe ICBC shouldn't care to write the road sense book in chinese either. Maybe there would be less immigrants on the road that can't drive cause they wouldn't be able to complete their knowledge test.

But driving - there is a difference. You don't actually need to be able to speak english to drive properly. All you need to do is know the rules and understand the road signs. Whether or not the immigrants on the road actually know how to drive properly is a whole other thing.

I just don't understand why people care how others run a business. If I go into a business and they can't serve me in English - I'll just leave and go somewhere else - I don't think it's my right as a Canadian Citizen to be served in English.

And I see a lot of this anger on this forum directed towards a lot of Chinese immigrants in Vancouver - and I understand why, Chinese are a big group of visible minorities here.

But there are also double standards. I don't hear people complaining when they go to some of the local Izakayas - where some of the servers don't speak english. People will just write that off as being "authentic japanese". But if you can't order your bubble tea in english, then it's those damn immigrants who don't bother to learn how to speak our national language.

I just view speaking the local language as one of those moral things. Some people have morals, some don't. Some immigrate here, and really try to learn english so that they can fit in, some don't.

[El Bastardo]

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.

We had it, we just got rid of it in the mid-70s.

Originally Posted by gars

I just don't understand why people care how others run a business. If I go into a business and they can't serve me in English - I'll just leave and go somewhere else - I don't think it's my right as a Canadian Citizen to be served in English.

I disagree. Why should I be made to feel as if I have inadequate communication skills if I walk into a shop on Robson and can't buy something because the person serving me only speaks Korean. Why should I have to leave Fruiticana in Surrey to go to another store because the people working there can't tell me if these are Hayden or Atkins mangoes because I can't read the sign.
If you are providing services in a specific language only, please set that expectation. Don't allow the common public speaking the language of the majority to feel out of place because you are far too xenophobic to make an effort to acclimate.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

Good example. Canada doesn't have the death penalty and likely never will.

What I meant was it's a debate that is very controversial like the death penalty and no matter where the coin lands there are going to be huge pros and huge cons. However my opinion is the onus should land on the immigrant and not the tax payer.

[gars]

Originally Posted by Tachycardia!

I disagree. Why should I be made to feel as if I have inadequate communication skills if I walk into a shop on Robson and can't buy something because the person serving me only speaks Korean. Why should I have to leave Fruiticana in Surrey to go to another store because the people working there can't tell me if these are Hayden or Atkins mangoes because I can't read the sign.
If you are providing services in a specific language only, please set that expectation. Don't allow the common public speaking the language of the majority to feel out of place because you are far too xenophobic to make an effort to acclimate.

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by gars

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

I think some people would like to see something like that. People would have to be forced to speak an official language when dealing with someone who doesn't understand that person's native tongue. Under such a law, people would only be permitted to speak their native language only to other people who understand it. It would be an absolute nightmare to enforce however.

its hilarious reading immigrants (or whose parents are immigrants) bitching about other immigrants

I can only speak about the history of Chinese immigrants in this country as I'm Chinese myself. The first wave of immigrants who came here to build the railroads, work in the mines, etc. worked hard. If you look at the history of BC, it was the white majority who didn't want them here. It's not as if the first wave of immigrants didn't want to integrate into Canadian society - they were deliberately excluded. My grandfather came to BC in the early 20th century to work in the mines on Vancouver Island. He eventually was forced to move to the prairies because the environment was more hospitable to Asians. He eventually set up shop in small-town Saskatchewan where he and my grandmother operated a diner for many years. My father was more or less raised as the quintessential Canadian - he hunted game on the prairie, he played pond hockey, he liked white women, etc.

The problem with the current generation of Chinese immigrants is that they have it easy. They didn't have to face adversity like people of my grandfather's generation. I'm not saying that they should have to go through what people like my grandfather went through, but be grateful and humble.

[Manic!]

So Conrad Black gives up his Canadian citizenship so he can be knighted by the queen. Get's in big trouble with the US law and we give him back his citizenship just because he asked for it. What B.S.

We have 1800 Canadians some of who are married and have kids many who are probable hard working citizens and we are going to spend millions to sent them back. That's just stupid.

If the conservatives want to send back people that got there citizenship illegally they should look at there own party first. Many people don't think MP Nina Grewal obtained citizenship legally.

Gurmant Grewal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Meowjin]

i hate the cons so fucking much

[goo3]

Originally Posted by quasi

What I meant was it's a debate that is very controversial like the death penalty and no matter where the coin lands there are going to be huge pros and huge cons. However my opinion is the onus should land on the immigrant and not the tax payer.

Nah, that's too sloppy. You've already given it out. The time to save money is to catch it in the first place.

It's like you getting fired and your paycheque cut cuz someone accused you of such and such, and you didn't have a chance to defend yourself. People make mistakes all the time.

That sounds like lawsuits and negligence.

[Brianrietta]

Originally Posted by gars

But under what authority do you believe these immigrants should be forced to speak english to you? Do you actually think a law should be passed that actually makes it illegal to make YOU feel out of place? What do you propose?

I personally would like to see a slightly less stringent set of language laws similar to Bill 101, around since 1977 in Quebec.

"Product labels, their instructions, manuals, warranty certificates as well as restaurant menus and wine lists must be in the official language. Other languages may be used, provided the official language's prominence is at least equivalent."

"Signs and posters must be in the official language and they may also be in another language provided the official language be markedly predominant."

"The right of consumers to be informed and served in French. (article 5)" (replacing French with "English or French")

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages. Sure, I could point at the menu board and communicate my order at a restaurant or as said, a bubble-tea shop, but I personally don't feel that I should have to. Particularly at a BBT shop. Shit. I mean, the number of words required to understand my/possible orders are not even that numerous.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Eugene

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages.

Why not both?

[Supafly]

Originally Posted by tool001

i might get failed for this , but

Canada as a developed nation has responsiblities around the world. $ is set aside for this. Its the same as saying "why donate money to japan during earthquake"

Unlike Africa, Japan has helped the world get ahead in research & development...so rebuilding a country that contributes to technology advancement is more ideal then sending care aid packages to a part of the world that doesnt even apreciate the good will of others...

Africa on the other hand; just takes handouts from the rest of the world...granted we (delveloped nations) go there to do research and development of our medical fields...if they wanted to start developing.....they would have done so already....since the 1940s.

I'll bet that 99.5% that the african population cant even point out where Canada is on the fucking map....

[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by tool001

People in canada are not dying because of hunger like in Africa. Even countries like China,india and other developing nations donate to these causes

And you can atest to this how?....You haven't done enough research to make such a bold claim....theres poverty in our own city; and people are dying left; right; and center. That shit doesn't make it on the news because Vancouver is world known to be in the top5 best places to live...who wants to paint their own shirts with a black brush?....
Venture DTES or outside vancouver into the interior, then comeback.

----------------

People may think I'm the biggest asshole on the planet, but you know what.... I honestly dont care. I would much rather help the 1 kid that comes from an abusive family and living in poverty in my own city then to help out 10kids in africa that cannot climb the ladder due to environment...

You cannot help everybody around the world, we just don't have the resources to do so. We already being taxed enough, and our very own infastructure is lacking....i mean, just look at our roads, parks, transit and sanitary systems....they all suck; yet we send 22 fucking million to africa??!! and then add levies and more taxes to compensate for our losses?...what in the fuck.

How bout taking that 22 million and the next 22 million which is a total of 44 million....and start rebuilding our cities, rebuilding hospitals and transit system.

[gars]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I think some people would like to see something like that. People would have to be forced to speak an official language when dealing with someone who doesn't understand that person's native tongue. Under such a law, people would only be permitted to speak their native language only to other people who understand it. It would be an absolute nightmare to enforce however.

Originally Posted by Eugene

I personally would like to see a slightly less stringent set of language laws similar to Bill 101, around since 1977 in Quebec.

"Product labels, their instructions, manuals, warranty certificates as well as restaurant menus and wine lists must be in the official language. Other languages may be used, provided the official language's prominence is at least equivalent."

"Signs and posters must be in the official language and they may also be in another language provided the official language be markedly predominant."

"The right of consumers to be informed and served in French. (article 5)" (replacing French with "English or French")

In my opinion if somebody wants to operate a business in Canada, I should be able to be served in one of the two official languages. Sure, I could point at the menu board and communicate my order at a restaurant or as said, a bubble-tea shop, but I personally don't feel that I should have to. Particularly at a BBT shop. Shit. I mean, the number of words required to understand my/possible orders are not even that numerous.

Are you guys serious? I'm not a law major - but I'm sure there's something in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms that would stop that law from going into place.

You can't FORCE someone to speak your language. If you deal with the Federal Gov't, you can ask them to serve you in one of our official languages - but that doesn't apply to the rest of the country.

[gars]

Originally Posted by Supafly

How bout taking that 22 million and the next 22 million which is a total of 44 million....and start rebuilding our cities, rebuilding hospitals and transit system.

Do you understand how little 22 million is to a country the size of Canada? that's less than a dollar a person. The budget last year - we spent 280 Billion dollars. 22 million is 0.00785% of our federal budget.