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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
My co-worker's wife has family in Oslo. His nieces friends wrote a first-hand account of what happened to them. Reposted from Facebook. Pardon the translation errors:
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We had just had an information meeting about the explosion in Oslo. Side delegation to the Oslo and Akershus were affected the most, we had a little meeting in the dining room next to the great hall. We talked and comforted each other, in the hope that our friends and family were not near the accident in Oslo. We called parents, friends and family. We cried. At the time counted ourselves lucky that we were on an isolated island that few people knew about.
After the meeting we went into the great hall again, where we sat with good friends and saw the news on our cell phones. Suddenly we heard several shots. Panic broke out. People screamed and screamed. Many ran to the windows and see what was happening outside. There stood a man, he was dressed in police clothing and waving his arms as he screamed "GET AWAY FROM THE WINDOW AND GET DOWN." We laid down on the ground. Then we heard more shots, closer this time. We were in shock!
I (Tuva) got up, I turned around and stared into the small room. The door was open, and a meter in front of me stood a boy. Then I noticed the man standing in the doorway a meter in front of the boy. I looked at the man with confusion. Three seconds later he shot the boy. I felt my whole body was paralyzed. I felt that someone pulled my arm. It was my girlfriend, Hana who went down to the floor. We sat there and looked at each other. we started laughing, we knew nothing. We told each other that this would be an exercise. One of the chefs came running in and yelled run!
We got up automatically and run out into the hallway, where it stopped up completely. People fell, and many ran right over them, so I scream "I have no shoes!". I have no idea why I thought about that , Hana and I got separated but I found Thianna. We ran out the door and towards the outhouse There we stood with other people who were just as confused as us. People talked about it that it was bullshit until a boy came and turned around.
He had blood all down his back and his pants. He said "I do not know whose blood it is, but it's not mine!" Then a girl came running towards us, she had blood all over her hands and cried. She ran toward the building, but we ran into the woods. Before we reached the water's edge I turned (Tuva) and stopped by a boy. He had been shot in the leg. He was on the ground holding around his leg Under all the panic, we decided to continue to run.
We came down to the waterfront where we met many others who had fled, we stood there and discussed what we should do. We planned how we would run if he came.
Then we heard four shots. And we ran away along the path by the water's edge. So we found the grass and hid behind, we laid down and told everyone to turn off the phone or turn it on silent. We told everyone that we had to take off all the colorful clothes so he would not see us. People took off their jackets, sweaters and put the valuables in the forest inside the grass and behind trees. After having laid on the ground for twenty minutes, we heard many shots. So everyone got up and ran up into the woods among the trees.
We ran over huge logs, rocks and twigs. There was tall grass, if any of us had fallen, we would have been finished. People slipped, but no one fell, we had a real guardian angel . A boy called out that two boys longer behind us had been shot, when we ran even faster. So we found higher grass and laid down. It was then we noticed that we had a eight year old boy with us. We were very afraid for him because he was so young. We told him that he had to run with us and never look behind. We lay there for twenty minutes, we wait.
Throughout the flight we hear helicopters flying over the island. We heard ambulances and police cars on the mainland. And the only thing we are talking about is "WHERE are the police?". Then she says one girl who is with us "is someone jogging?" Said one further back, "it's him!” Then we hear shots again, just behind us. We get up run up the hill and even further into the forest. Then we were divided, and the group we had went from 50 to10 people. Where the others ran we had no idea and we did not have time to look for them!
We laid down immediately again, and did not notice until after a while that we are laying in poo. (We were where they emptied the toilet!) Everyone was completely panicked, many crying and others telling them to hush. We thought that if someone cries, he would hear the noise, and then we would be revealed. We heard some sounds, so we ran to an old skate ramp and hid behind it. When we were not more than ten people standing there. We thought it was over now, and that we were safe! We stood there for ten minutes, we heard more shots and we started to run up a hill!
We spread ourselves even more, now we were only 3 girls. We ran up a rocky hill and cut our feet. I (Tuva) ran barefoot, while Thianna had boots. The stones were smooth and slippery and we could not get a proper grip on the rocks before we stepped on another one. The thought that struck me was that if we fall down now, when we roll down and going to die. it was only a few meters left. When we were up beside the main building one girl ran on. We saw an open door, and Thianna pulled my arm and pulled me into the bedroom. We locked the door, pulled off our jackets and got under the bunk beds that stood there.
Then began the wait. Deep down we knew we were safe here, but fear still hanging over us! We had eye contact all the time, while we sent messages to those we loved. It was nerve-wracking . We shook with fear and we were under the beds, and could feel that our bodies were exhausted. We said we loved each other and that this was not the end for us. We also planned what to do if he came. We heard shots outside the wall, and the screams of those who had been shot out on the trail was absolutely terrible to hear. We knew we could not help! We try and contact those on the mainland, we called the police and all that could have helped us.
After two hours, we received a message from a friend, she said there were police officers in the main building, but she did not know if they were real! We were terrified. "Are there more ???!" we whispered to each other! So we got another message that said the police would come for us. We told them where we were and were told that the police would come and rescue us. So there was a knock on the door, and the police shouted to us.
They asked us and keep your hands above our head, but since my hip was out of its socket I could not get up! Before we opened the door Thianna screamed repeatedly "ARE YOU A REAL POLICE?". They said yes, and we took the chance. We opened the door, they came in with heavy weapons and armored suits. They asked us to look down, or against the wall while they were going to carry us to safety. They wanted us not to look at the dead that lay beyond. There were five police officers who went with us, they covered us with shields and weapons. I couldn’t help it and I looked over campsite. There were dead people everywhere! Inside the tents, on the trail, and many of the tents were completely destroyed. When we got to the entrance we stopped and looked out before we went inside.
2 meters from the entrance was a girl who was shot in the chest. I closed my eyes and walked into the room that contained several survivors! There we sat and waited, we got shirts and talked with the others. All agreed that this seemed completely unreal. I fell into conversation with one policeman who told me that they think about fifty people have died. I then asked if they had been in the woods. He said no and looked at me strangely. I said that where there are many more.
After a while we would be transported through the great hall and into the hallway. They said we had to look towards the wall as we walked. They recommended strongly it! It smelled blood in the entire building. But again I had to look, and there were dead people everywhere. Some of those lying next to their mobile phones and there were huge puddles of blood under them and over the floor. We sat in the hall where we got Snickers, soft drinks, slush, nuts and chewing tobacco. Everything we needed to help us calm down! We were on edge as one person read the news on his phone to tell what had happened.
He also called out the names of some of those who were safe. We became one very fast especially under a situation like this. People you'd never talked to or spent time with before quickly became very close.We spent time in the hallway and called family and friends. Many had to recharge the mobile phones and tried desperately and get them to work. After much crying were we told that we should evacuate! We got in line and we went down to the boat. Because of my hip I went first in the row with two other people. I remember that I compared the last hours of an episode of Criminal Minds. "This only happens on TV!" I thought to myself. When we had finally come down to the boat as we were greeted by several police officers. We looked around us at the beach and the hills along the water's edge. There were so many dead there! We were helped aboard and drove off on the ferry.
Me, Thianna Mamie og Hana hugged each other We cried and screamed, We were extatic that we survived The first time I truly felt safe was when we had gotten over to the other sideWe were driven to Bærum hospital and from there were picked up by my parents and uncle
Not a single fuck was given, going to wear my favourite Lacoste shirt
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Originally posted by Girl ^ Yes it's sad when you stare at the shape of my penis through my overly skin tight jeans and not help but feel like a shameful little boy compared to me.
he might have to stay in this horrible shithole prison for 21 years max
highlights
- Swimming
- 18 days Vacation from jail
- 6 hour work day
- Flatscreen TVs
- Horses
- Bikes
- Chainsaw murderer, now works with a chainsaw
- pretty sure this event skewed their murder rate a fair bit
Norway has surprisingly low incarceration rates – very low if you compare them to our own penal system. I say surprisingly because at least some of Norway’s prisons sound sort of like a vacation resort. Take Bastoey, one of Norway’s “open prisons”:
It is home to about 115 detainees, including murderers, rapists and other felons, who enjoy activities not usually associated with prisons.
In summer, they can improve their backhand on the tennis court, ride a horse in the forest and hit the beach for a swim. In winter, they can go cross-country skiing or participate in the prison’s ski-jumping competition.
Inmates work between 8:15 a.m. and 2:30 p.m. The island is a farm, so there are cattle to tend, timber to cut and organic crops to grow. Inmates also work at a sawmill, using axes, knives and saws. Another job is to restore wooden houses dotted around the island. Based on their time in Bastoey, many men will obtain professional qualifications.
After work, inmates retreat to their homes: comfortable wooden houses shared between four to six inmates.
Bastoey is based on the idea that traditional, repressive prisons do not work.
It is unlikely that the Oslo mass-murderer Anders Behring Breivik would find his way into quite so cushy a prison, but even if he ends up in a maximum security facility he won’t face either death penalty or life in prison. This is because the maximum sentence for any crime in Norway is 21 years.
The American penal system is deeply flawed. We place far too many nonviolent offenders behind bars. We simply incarcerate far too many citizens and call it justice. We put them in dangerous facilities where there is a startlingly high rate of rape and assault and then turn a blind eye to their fate. And again, we call that justice.
But on the flipside, Norway’s “open prison” system strikes me as quite a bit too comfortable for violent offenders like murderers and rapists. I can’t help but feel that there must be some middle ground. Open prisons make sense for nonviolent offenders and perhaps especially for juvenile offenders (though I think there’s a strong case to be made that most juvenile offenders should not be imprisoned at all).
Furthermore, while I oppose the death penalty, it’s hard for me to stomach the idea that a man who killed nearly one hundred people, many of whom were teenagers, ought to be freed in 21 years. How can a man like this ever be allowed back into society?
I don’t have the answers. I don’t think anyone does.
But it is interesting to look at the differences between the Norwegian and American prison systems. They represent such starkly different visions of what the purpose and end-goal of imprisonment ought to be. No prison system will be perfect, obviously, but we can always work toward a more humane criminal justice system, even if there are times when such a system may not be adequate to the crime.
I doubt America could imitate Norway’s system, and I’m not sure it should. But we could certainly work toward policies that would put fewer people behind bars and save those prison beds for actual criminals.
Update: It has been brought to my attention that after the 21 year sentence a prisoner can have their term extended by a judge if they are deemed a threat to society. This makes a great deal more sense.
And just for clarification purposes, I think the Norwegian system is much better than the American system when it comes to humane treatment of prisoners. Indeed, I think we could learn a lot not just about prisons from Scandinavian countries, but also on how to prevent crime in the first place by seriously combating poverty.
Norwegian mass killer Breivik gets 21-year prison term
Sentenced to 21 years in jail with likely extensions
Balazs Koranyi, Reuters
OSLO - Norwegian mass killer Anders Behring Breivik was jailed for a maximum term on Friday when judges declared him sane enough to answer for the murder of 77 people last year, drawing a smirk of triumph from the self-styled warrior against Islam.
An unrepentant Breivik, 33, gave the Oslo court a stiff-armed, clench-fisted salute before being handed the steepest possible penalty, 21 years. His release, however, can be put off indefinitely should he still pose a threat to a liberal society left traumatised by his bomb and shooting rampage last July.
Justifying blasting a government building and gunning down dozens of teenagers at a summer camp as a service to a nation threatened by immigration, he had said only acquittal or death would be worthy outcomes. But his biggest concern was being declared insane - the sole verdict he had said he would appeal.
Judge Wenche Elizabeth Arntzen dismissed a prosecution call for her to label Breivik mad, a ruling that would have seen him confined indefinitely to psychiatric care rather than prison.
Some survivors of the slaughter at the Labour party youth camp on Utoeya island had been keen to see Breivik held clearly responsible for his actions - and to avoid the insanity verdict that would have triggered lengthy and traumatic appeal hearings.
For many Norwegians, still shocked by their bloodiest day since World War Two, the details were academic, however.
“He is getting what he deserves,” said Alexandra Peltre, 18, whom Breivik shot in the thigh on Utoeya. “This is karma striking back at him. I do not care if he is insane or not, as long as he gets the punishment that he deserves.”
Breivik, who had surrendered to police on the island without a fight, admitted blowing up the Oslo government headquarters with a fertiliser bomb, killing eight, on Friday, July 22, 2011, then shooting 69 at the ruling party’s summer youth camp.
Dressed in a black suit with a tie and still sporting the under-chin beard familiar from the 10 weeks of hearings that ended in June, Breivik smirked when he entered the courtroom and gave his now familiar, far-right salute when his handcuffs were removed. He smiled again as the judge read out the verdict.
He will not appeal, his lawyer said. “He told me he will accept this verdict,” Geir Lippestad told Reuters.
A lawyer for some victims and their families said they, too, were satisfied: “I am pleased, although that’s not really the right word, and relieved. This is what we hoped for,” said Mette Yvonne Larsen, who represented some of those affected in court.
“I have already received many messages from clients telling me this is justice served and they are happy it’s over and will never have to see him again.”
The killings shook the nation of five million which had prided itself as a safe haven from much of the world’s troubles, raising questions about the prevalence of far-right views in a country where oil wealth has attracted rising immigration.
Breivik will now be kept in isolation inside Ila Prison on the outskirts of Oslo inside relatively spacious quarters that include a separate exercise room, a computer and a television.
He had described an insane verdict as “a fate worse than death”. Were he to have been found insane and decided to appeal, the entire trial would have had to be repeated.
Breivik justified his killing spree arguing that the centre-left Labour party is deliberately destroying the nation by encouraging Muslim immigration. His views, spread over the Internet and aired during the trial, drew support from a few in Europe but even most of the hardest right-wing fringe groups kept their distance from the self-confessed mass killer.
Although his victims were mostly teenagers, with some as young as 14, he rejected being called a child murderer, arguing that his victims were brainwashed “cultural Marxists” whose political activism would adulterate pure Norwegian blood.
He stalked his victims dressed as a policeman, tricking them into thinking he was the help sent from the shore after the initial attack. He then shot them from close range before finishing them with a shot to the head.
“I stand by what I have done and I would still do it again.” he said during his court testimony.
Some Norwegians now believe their country must draw on the experience to debate issues like immigration as their oil wealth attracts large numbers of foreign workers.
These are being discussed more openly after the killings by Breivik, who believed the government’s immigration policies were adulterating “Norwegian blood” and leading to war with Muslims.
One team of court-appointed psychiatrists concluded he was psychotic while another came to the opposing conclusion. To make the ruling more difficult, several other experts who testified described a slew of mental conditions Breivik probably suffered.
Still, polls showed that around 70 percent of Norway’s public thought such a complex attack could not have been carried out by a madman and Breivik had to bear responsibility
Breivik has said he would accept a sane verdict, but derided a jail term as “pathetic”, and said acquittal or execution were the only reasonable outcomes.
A commission investigating the attack earlier this month concluded that all of part of it could have been prevented and intelligence, police and government blunders likely cost lives.
He should have been acquitted due to insanity. And then led to a room to sign his release papers. And then led to a third room where family members of his victims were waiting for him with an assortment of different weapons.
I don't know if it's just me but I don't think 21 years is enough even though it was the maximum. Maybe 21 years per person = 1617 years and never see the light of day again. Just my opinion.
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2017 Jeep Wrangler JKU
Canon 5D MKIV w/ a bunch of L's
His moves were obviously calculated, he wanted to send a message to the government and he is still reasonably young, this event will hang in the minds of Norwegians forever and he'll be out in 20 years, I'm sure it all went exactly as he planned
he'll be out in 20 years, I'm sure it all went exactly as he planned
Not necessarily.
Quote:
An unrepentant Breivik, 33, gave the Oslo court a stiff-armed, clench-fisted salute before being handed the steepest possible penalty, 21 years. His release, however, can be put off indefinitely should he still pose a threat to a liberal society left traumatised by his bomb and shooting rampage last July.
I really like the planned memorial. They're going to cut a slice through a piece of land jutting out into the water and engrave the names of those lost on the far side from the observation area.
__________________ nabs -Brianrietta are you trying to Mindbomber me? using big words to try to confuse me jasonturbo -Threesomes: overrated - I didn't really think it was anything special, plus it was degrading, marching to the bathroom to fart all that semen out Babykiller -And next to that, there's a little dot called a period. It's not the stuff you eat out of your sisters gash, it's a handy little tool for breaking up sentences so they don't look like nonsensical retard garbage.
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