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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 08-09-2011, 02:41 PM   #1
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Data logging ECU as evidence?

I'm curious if data logged from a cars ECU would be admissable (either roadside, or in court) for proving speed?

For example, in my car i can hook up a laptop/tablet to my ECU and have it record logs of just about everything, rpm, boost, knock, speed, etc. If i were to get a carPC and connect things up so that it automatically logs all the time, would PO's even care to look on the roadside if they claim i was doing 45 over, when my logs show 20 over? Keep in mind this is hypothetical, for me anyways.

As well the fact that all the logging is done to excel spreadsheets, doesn't make it very tamper-proof.

I always get concerned when i see posts from people saying their car is impounded and they're positive they weren't doing 40+, but I don't want to spend $600 on a carPC to have a PO tell me 'thats nice, here's your ticket and you can get your car back in a week'.

Depends on the PO I guess?
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Old 08-09-2011, 02:44 PM   #2
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I don't know if a Do It Yourself set up would be admissible. BUT my company does mobile tracking and vehicle monitoring stuff for large corperations and because it's regulated and third party they're allowed to use it to prove compliance with government regulations.
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Old 08-09-2011, 04:38 PM   #3
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Like what TNG said, not too sure about DIY systems. In the US, there was a case last year where a kid was alledgedly caught speeding. His car was installed with a GPS tracker that would email his parents everytime he was over the speed limit. In this case, he was going exactly the speed limit. The kid and his parents disputed the ticket, then had GPS experts testify the accuracy of the GPS tracker and in the end won and had the ticket thrown out.
In the US, speeding is serious business as it affect insurance rates and the ability to purchase car insurance.
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Old 08-09-2011, 05:04 PM   #4
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You would have to have any expert evidence tendered by an acceptable expert. He would have to prove to the satisfaction of the court that the evidence being tendered was from the vehicle in question, that it was at the exact date, location and time in question, that it was accurate and had not been tampered with in any way. He would have to attend court, be sworn in and open to cross examination on the evidence he will be giving. The evidence will have to be presented in writing to the Crown in advance of his testimony and it will be subject to counter opinions by the Crown.

I'm an "expert witness" and have testified in Supreme Court on motorcycle matters. It is a lot of expensive work for the expert in advance and I know what I charge is not as much as some experts. My bill gets paid if I testify or not, if the defendant wins or not. If you have thousands of dollars to spend to attempt to get off a speeding ticket, then go for it. All experts are not created equal and just because you have one does not guarantee a win for you. It does guarantee that you spend lots of money though, win or loose.


As far as a Cop looking at your "evidence" roadside goes, I would be astonished. Court takes place ina courthouse, not at roadside. They are not going to take time from their jobs to look at a computer printout that could say anything that the creator of the programme wanted. Same with GPS. A locked in speed only means somebody locked a speed in. That's it. No pedigree to say that it really represents what you were doing when you said it. The Cop has his own evidence( Laser/Radar/Tracking history/speed estimation/Dooppler audio shift etc) and should not be stopping anyone for speeding unless they are 100% convinced that they have prima facie evidence of the speed you were doing was over the limit.

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Old 08-09-2011, 06:33 PM   #5
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As far as a Cop looking at your "evidence" roadside goes, I would be astonished. Court takes place ina courthouse, not at roadside.
Tell that to the thousands of individuals dinged with impaired driving convictions
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Old 08-09-2011, 09:46 PM   #6
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Tell that to the thousands of individuals dinged with impaired driving convictions
We're discussing a comment made here by the OP, who asked if he should try discussing the readings he made in his roadside computer to convince a Cop that that Cop was wrong in all his observations and training.

It would be the same as you supplying your own ASD at roadside, showing what you say was your breath sample ( not observed by the Cop) and expecting him to take that over his own calibrated instrument and trained observations.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:02 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by SumAznGuy View Post
In the US, speeding is serious business as it affect insurance rates and the ability to purchase car insurance.
Slightly related question. Why isn't it here?
How much more "serious" are they about it? Why aren't we more serious about it?
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:09 AM   #8
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Slightly related question. Why isn't it here?
How much more "serious" are they about it? Why aren't we more serious about it?
ICBC tried to create a greater penelty for speeding tickets recently and everyone freaked out.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:09 AM   #9
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Think of it this way. Right now, ICBC gives the same insurance rates to everyone, given the same accident history. No one is denied insurance.
In other areas of Canada and the US that run private insurance, no one has to cover you. If you get a speeding ticket, then you become a "high risk" policy. Get a couple more or a DUI and you are now uninsurable.
If you are under 25, your rates will be higher. If you are under 25 and drive/ride a high risk vehicle like a sport bike, then you will pay through your nose for insurance.
It is crazy how cheap insurance is in Washington state for someone who is over 55 and riding a Goldwing.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:06 AM   #10
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One thing to always remember about US insurance coverage...look at what coverage you are actually buying. You can buy as low as $10,000 coverage, for a few bucks a year. If you compare apple to apples you might find that there is not as much difference.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:17 AM   #11
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One thing to always remember about US insurance coverage...look at what coverage you are actually buying. You can buy as low as $10,000 coverage, for a few bucks a year. If you compare apple to apples you might find that there is not as much difference.
^ is something everyone seems to forget. Also a lot of people buy insurance in the states that is only liability or what ever (so it doesn't cover their own vehicle if they are at fault in an accident).

Our insurance forces us to buy a liability level that will cover all but the worst accidents. This rather sucks if you don't ever get in an accident but if you ever are at fault for ANYTHING you'll be greatful for it.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:38 AM   #12
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In other areas of Canada and the US that run private insurance, no one has to cover you. If you get a speeding ticket, then you become a "high risk" policy. Get a couple more or a DUI and you are now uninsurable.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:08 PM   #13
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Ah yes...Vern. The man has established a very profitable business based on public humiliation, shameless self-promotion and showing that it is OK to be severely off your meds as long as you have a TV advertising contract. He makes our own Gordie Dodd look like a nice normal guy.
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:21 PM   #14
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Gotta give him points for creativity, though, especially some of the shows/movies/etc. that he rips off. Vern is the Weird Al of the low-budget advertising world
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:58 PM   #15
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The real bad taste kingship is a tossup between LA car dealer Cal Worthington and a guy from Bangor Maine by the name of Dick Stacey. He used to sponsor and star in a late Saturday night country music live TV show called the "Stacey's Fuel Mart Jambouree. Imagine broad Maine accents, terrible musical abilities ( more accurately a lack of any form of it) and redneck hilbilly Maine lobster fishermen and farmers masquerading as real Texas cowboys singing Wilf Carter, Hank Snow and Sons of the Pioneers 1930's style country and western music. Wrap it all in the production values of the worst kindergarten play you were ever forced to sit thru...and you have some idea of a good night's show. Dick used to do his own commercials..."see these hands, they stink because they pump gas"....and my personal favourite... 'Throw me another one Charlie"...as Charlie, off camera, rolled a tyre out at Dick, which he usually missed catching, with resulting scenery and electrical equipment damage. That was only topped by Jenny's rendition of "on the wings of a dove" in a manner that can only be described as...unbelievable!

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Old 08-10-2011, 04:58 PM   #16
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Tell that to the thousands of individuals dinged with impaired driving convictions
And the 4,000+ drivers who have had their car impounded on the spot for excessive speed.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:05 PM   #17
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And the 4,000+ drivers who have had their car impounded on the spot for excessive speed.
99% of whom were actually going stupidly fast and were real dangers on the road.

I know Mr. Safety always-follows-the-law-religiously Sebberry doesn't mind sharing the road with these folks, but the rest of us have serious issues with it.
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Old 08-16-2011, 04:35 PM   #18
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im not 100% sure on this , please correct me if im wrong,

but doesnt nissan do ecu data logging checks for the new gtr? if things break and nissan can prove you voided warrenty buy abusing the car , couldnt you get them to run a data log on your blackbox ?

2010 GT-R Warranty Voided For Denying Nissan Access To Your Black Box Data
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