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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 09-21-2011, 12:18 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by SumAznGuy View Post


My first instinct tells me that there is less red light tickets because those people who should have gotten the tickets are now running yellow lights because of the increased 1.5 seconds.

It is just a matter of time before those people realize the delayed yellow light and start running red lights again.
That's just speculation.

Also in that article:

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There are various studies that have shown that drivers do not negatively adjust to longer light times. You can find a list of these studies by clicking here.
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:41 PM   #27
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Just like increasing the speed limits because people choose to speed. Limit goes up, speeds go up.
Sure the speeds went up, the speed limit went up. But crashes don't necessarily go up:

Page 23 - Review and Analysis of Posted Speed Limits and
Speed Limit Setting Practices


Perhaps raising the speed limits so that more people are in compliance with the limit will result in fewer speed differentials between vehicles.

Everyone wants to praise photo radar for reducing collisions through speed reduction, but let's not forget that it also improves consistency of speed between vehicles. When more vehicles travel at or near the same speed as eachother, there are fewer opportunities for interaction as well as an improved ability for drivers to see other problematic drivers.

Setting speed limits to more accurately reflect actual travel speeds will also allow drivers who feel the need to putter along at the posted limit to drive at a speed more consistent with the vehicles around them.


Let's look at Blanshard St in Victoria - 6 lanes of traffic with a 50kph posted limit. In my experience, most of the time drivers find the safe travel speed to be in the 60-65kph range. Even in light traffic where one could easily travel at 80kph the majority of drivers choose to travel at 60-65kph.

Why do drivers pick that speed? They find it to be a safe speed given the design of the road, visibility, etc.. I would be willing to bet that if you raised the speed limit to 60kph you wouldn't see too many drivers exceeding the speeds they currently find to be safe. Why? Because even when they can, they generally don't.

Let's take 3 lanes of traffic moving at 65kph and stick some daft twit in the right lane who insists on doing the posted 50kph. You can't tell me he feels more comfortable at 50kph while being constantly tailgated and passed. He's doing 50kph simply because that's the law, not because it is safe or comfortable for him to do so.

Now that same twit decides he needs to make two lane changes so he can prepare for a left turn up ahead. How is he able to safely keep pace with open space to the left of his vehicle as he prepares to make that lane change? Furthermore, how is he able to keep an eye on cars in the far left lane as he moves into the center lane?

It's much easier to remain aware of the location of various cars around you when you keep up with the flow of traffic.

Now Zulutango, I know in YD the importance of maintaining safe space margins around your vehicle is taught to students. This is to make it safer to make lane changes or to swerve around a pedestrian who has stepped into your path. How can you safely maintain adequate space to the side of your vehicle when you're travelling 10kph slower than everyone else?
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Old 09-21-2011, 01:43 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Sure the speeds went up, the speed limit went up. But crashes don't necessarily go up:

Page 23 - Review and Analysis of Posted Speed Limits and
Speed Limit Setting Practices



When more vehicles travel at or near the same speed as eachother, there are fewer opportunities for interaction as well as an improved ability for drivers to see other problematic drivers.

Same thing would happen if everyone followed the speed limit!

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Why do drivers pick that speed? They find it to be a safe speed given the design of the road, visibility, etc.. I would be willing to bet that if you raised the speed limit to 60kph you wouldn't see too many drivers exceeding the speeds they currently find to be safe. Why? Because even when they can, they generally don't.
Yes, why do they pick that speed? Perhaps one person tends to speed, the next person gets the idea..the next person gets the idea....etc. I don't think it has anything to do with "safe speed" of the road. The speed of the road is what the speed limit signs say........according to the law. Why do they speed? Because it will get them to their destination 2 minutes earlier? Why do they speed? Many drivers out there ....and we all know who we are....hate to be passed by someone...or hate to be behind a particular kind of vehicle. There are many reasons why people speed...and I don't think many speed with the thought "this is good...this is a safe speed for this road". No....they speed because they are in a hurry or impatient.

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Perhaps raising the speed limits so that more people are in compliance with the limit will result in fewer speed differentials between vehicles.
And where would you draw the line? There will ALWAYS be drivers that think the speed limit is too slow. It's simple, just do the speed limit!

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Setting speed limits to more accurately reflect actual travel speeds will also allow drivers who feel the need to putter along at the posted limit to drive at a speed more consistent with the vehicles around them.
You mean the drivers that obey the law?

Last edited by Simnut; 09-21-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 09-21-2011, 02:47 PM   #29
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Yes, drivers "should" pay attention to the side lights, but sometimes for whatever reason some drivers don't.

This is why with proper light timings we can allow for mistakes to happen without the potentially drastic consequences.
You're an idiot. You're justifying following so closely you cannot see the signs of the road by arguing the lights should stay lit longer.

How about accepting that some people will just drive badly, and we cannot nanny state everything to deal with them. if we could, I'd take your license away for being paranoid about approaching red light cameras, we don't need paranoid drivers on the road.
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:44 AM   #30
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There should be NO reason for someone to run a yellow or red light. If drivers were driving according to todays "standards and regulations" (as brought up by someone) then defensive driving should kick in.

- Don't follow the vehicle ahead too close
- Pay attention ahead....LOOK for stale lights (as mentioned)
- Look for vehicles or pedestrians that will "trip" the light to change
- Only proceed when you KNOW it is safe to do so, not when you ASSUME it is safe to do so!


Hang on...this is called defensive driving! Isn't that today's standard?
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:34 AM   #31
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It's called "point of no return". Young Drivers teaches it to new drivers, even some old experienced expert drivers could benifit from the technique. All green lights are "stale" unless you just saw them turn green...if the light turns yellow can I stop?....traffic behind, your speed and roadway condition decide that point. If any of these three are less than ideal then your stopping point increases and you slow down before to compensate. It's called being a proactive driver.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:27 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Simnut View Post
There should be NO reason for someone to run a yellow or red light. If drivers were driving according to todays "standards and regulations" (as brought up by someone) then defensive driving should kick in.

- Don't follow the vehicle ahead too close
- Pay attention ahead....LOOK for stale lights (as mentioned)
- Look for vehicles or pedestrians that will "trip" the light to change
- Only proceed when you KNOW it is safe to do so, not when you ASSUME it is safe to do so!


Hang on...this is called defensive driving! Isn't that today's standard?
Some lights stay green for a long time. If you treat every green as stale, you're focusing on the light too much and not on other things. There's a reason why they're colour coded and in different locations.
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:50 PM   #33
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So, following your logic, because some lights stay green for a long time it's Ok to not look at them to see if they might actually change, causeing you to have to stop? If you don't treat them as stale and are not prepaired to safely stop, get rear-ended or get hit while running the light, panic and make the uninformed wrong choice are you better off? If you move your eyes every 2 seconds and glance ( 1/2 second's time) at the light you will be able to see the change. Nobody said you should be driving, staring zombie-like at only the green light. There are many important things you should be focusing on as you drive, a potential high-risk situation ahead of you should be one of them. Most crashes happen at intersections, I want to be driving towards one paying full attention to something in them that may demand I stop suddenly and safely. That's the way I drive and what I teach. Your driving may vary, not vaild in all provinces and States...void where prohibited by law, contents may shift while in transit

Last edited by zulutango; 09-25-2011 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 09-25-2011, 01:06 PM   #34
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Zulu: Do you know of any statistics, or have first hand experience that would suggest when most red lights are "run"?

i.e. If someone runs a red light and causes a collision, is that more likely to be in the first 1-2 seconds of the light turning red or some time after?
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:51 PM   #35
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Most crashes happen at intersections, I want to be driving towards one paying full attention to something in them that may demand I stop suddenly and safely.
This. I always cover the brake pedal and check my left for traffic coming through an intersection with or without lights. Save me a lot of time from idiots who refuse to yield and what not. I don't get people sometimes. They wait until your car come really really close and make a dangerous move, instead of safely make a move while traffic is still far away.
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #36
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I don't get people sometimes. They wait until your car come really really close and make a dangerous move, instead of safely make a move while traffic is still far away.
Probably because they're feeling the pressure from people behind them...

I've been waiting to make a left turn at large intersections and have had the driver behind flap their hands about trying to tell me to go, go, go!!!

That was at a major intersection known for lots of crashes with questionable visibility and train tracks. Yeh, sure, I'll just sit way out in the middle so you can get to your hair appt 30 seconds earlier...
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:47 PM   #37
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to add to that

When making a left turn at an intersection without left turn lanes, if there's an oncoming vehicle making a left turn as well, say a truck, then they completely block your view of oncoming traffic. In this situation we are taught to NOT turn our wheels/lean out as this is extremely dangerous and if you get rear-ended you'll be pushed into oncoming traffic.

Well, if you follow this chances are you'll encounter the impatient asshat behind you who honks and waves his hands wondering why you aren't turning despite there being a huuuuuge gap in traffic.
It's just amazing how these morons don't seem to realize that THEY are further back so obviously they have a better/clearer view unlike me who's view is blocked by the truck diagonally across to my left...too bad for you I'm gonna wait for the red and you're gonna have to wait for the next green.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:56 PM   #38
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^
to add to that

When making a left turn at an intersection without left turn lanes, if there's an oncoming vehicle making a left turn as well, say a truck, then they completely block your view of oncoming traffic. In this situation we are taught to NOT turn our wheels/lean out as this is extremely dangerous and if you get rear-ended you'll be pushed into oncoming traffic.

Well, if you follow this chances are you'll encounter the impatient asshat behind you who honks and waves his hands wondering why you aren't turning despite there being a huuuuuge gap in traffic.
It's just amazing how these morons don't seem to realize that THEY are further back so obviously they have a better/clearer view unlike me who's view is blocked by the truck diagonally across to my left...too bad for you I'm gonna wait for the red and you're gonna have to wait for the next green.
I was always taught....yes....waaaaaayyyy back....that ------> I <------ was in control of MY vehicle, not someone else. If the guy behind you is like that..it is THEIR problem...not yours!

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too bad for you I'm gonna wait for the red and you're gonna have to wait for the next green.
Exactly the way you gotta think!!
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