Vancouver East / West Price differences

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Originally Posted by Mr.C

I'd rather buy something in Ladner or South Surrey or even frickin' Fraser Heights. When we moved here, we looked at Vancouver, then noted that unless you are living in Yaletown, you need a car for *everything*. And plus, houses that look like crack shacks for 1.5 mil? That's insane. There's nothing in Vancouver, and I mean nothing, that makes a crap house worth that much. If you live at E 22nd and Ontario, there really isn't a lot close by. Nothing that couldn't be found close by in Burnaby or Coquitlam or Surrey or Langley.

Vancouver is very, very overrated. I have traveled quite a bit. You know where everything is close and convenient? Paris. Rome. London, to an extent. Rio de Janeiro, even. Asia, in general, although I haven't been there yet. The Lower Mainland has a big separation of residential areas and commercial areas. That makes it so that you can't feasibly walk anywhere and do your groceries and shopping, unless you happen to live near a "Centre" (Metrotown, Richmond Centre, Lougheed Town Centre, Edmonds Town Centre, etc). Even, say, if you live down on 65th and SW Marine, and work downtown, you're looking at about 45 minutes between buses and train. From here in Surrey, I take a total of 45 minutes to make it downtown.

Except for the postal code, no difference, really.

you might not think the price is justified, but to everyone else that can afford to move there, money isn't an issue. the neighborhood, living in a more "respectable" area (i.e. symbolic capital), less crime (safer?), accessible to richmond and DT. yes it is different, this is the same crappy argument as why you can just drive a toyota instead of buying a mercedez.

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Originally Posted by SiRV

I wonder what kind of jobs the new buyer's have to be able to own/afford a place at these sky high costs.. I was looking at mortgage calculators on some random sites lately and I worked out that for a 3 million dollar house:
- 150,000 down payment
- 30 year mortgage rate (~4%)

You need a gross $510,000 combined family income paying a monthly mortgage rate of $14,000/MONTH

if you can't figure that out, that's the least of your worries...

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by bing

you might not think the price is justified, but to everyone else that can afford to move there, money isn't an issue. the neighborhood, living in a more "respectable" area (i.e. symbolic capital), less crime (safer?), accessible to richmond and DT. yes it is different, this is the same crappy argument as why you can just drive a toyota instead of buying a mercedez.

Money is an issue. Many of the people buying homes are using the increased equity in their condos to leverage themselves into a home and even larger mortgage. I have 3 coworkers who bought in the last month that did exactly this and when I was looking at rentals many of the basement suite landlords did the same, and thus need the basement suite to pay the mortgage.

The price isn't justified, people here are just crazy. I think they only real business in Vancouver is people selling each other stuff over face value, without any added value.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

Vancouver is very, very overrated.

you need a car for *everything*. And plus, houses that look like crack shacks for 1.5 mil?

There's nothing in Vancouver, and I mean nothing, that makes a crap house worth that much. If you live at E 22nd and Ontario, there really isn't a lot close by. Nothing that couldn't be found close by in Burnaby or Coquitlam or Surrey or Langley.

Lifestyle, my friend.

This really hit a nerve, and I couldn't help myself.

Vancouver being overrated is easy for someone who's been all over the place to say. What about people who work/live downtown? People who grew up with all their friends and family in Vancouver? The social angle is a big part of why the prices are what they are.

Doesn't matter where you live.. I think most people would need a car for *everything*

"Crap houses?" how much do you think the cost of renovations is over the cost of the land? Anyone can make a house look pretty. 1.5 Mil for a crack house? Refer to the 2 Mil house page 1. You just need to do your homework about who to ask and where to look.

For me, all my friends and family are in Vancouver. If I lived out in Surrey/White Rock, I sure as hell don't want to drive 45+ minutes there and back every time I get invited to grab a bite or a cup of coffee with some friends. (That's if they even ask, knowing I live all the way out there.)

I live "in the middle of no where" in Vancouver like you said, for arguments sake, near 22nd and Ontario. A cab ride home from the club is ~10-15 minutes. The restaurants and coffee shops I frequent with friends are about 3 minutes away, or a 10 minute walk. Drive to Richmond is ~20 minutes.

It's all about lifestyle choice. Why do you think the prices are what they are? Why do you think Vancouver is the "core"?

Originally Posted by bing

you might not think the price is justified, but to everyone else that can afford to move there, money isn't an issue. the neighborhood, living in a more "respectable" area (i.e. symbolic capital), less crime (safer?), accessible to richmond and DT.

To add to this, aside from status, is lifestyle choice again. Depends where you grew up and/or where your social life lies.

If I had no social life, then hell, it wouldn't matter where I lived. Or if everyone I knew lived in Surrey, then I wouldn't mind living there. But personally, I grew up in Vancouver, all my close friends are in Vancouver, and I'm downtown almost everyday.

Overpriced? Probably. If you don't mind travelling 45+ minutes both ways to get to Vancouver, that's your call. But I'd rather live in a small place near people I know than in a big house in Surrey by myself. But hey, that's just me. Everyone's different and has different priorities. I'm a very social person and pretty minimalist when it comes to living space. This seems to be trending nowadays, hence the prices.

Though I'm sure priorities will change after starting a family..

[bing]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Money is an issue. Many of the people buying homes are using the increased equity in their condos to leverage themselves into a home and even larger mortgage. I have 3 coworkers who bought in the last month that did exactly this and when I was looking at rentals many of the basement suite landlords did the same, and thus need the basement suite to pay the mortgage.

The price isn't justified, people here are just crazy. I think they only real business in Vancouver is people selling each other stuff over face value, without any added value.

You're right some people probably can't afford to be there or are leveraging their equity. I have a biased version of the homeowners since everyone that I know that lives there is doing pretty good (and my moms a RE agent).

The price might not be justified, but at the moment it seems pretty profitable (as long as there are buyers) for people to buy houses at inflated prices and eventually flip them to other wealthy buyers. Not sure how long it'll last, but since China's economy is expected to grow and eclipse the U.S. sooner than the original 2010 Goldman Sach predictions, it's reasonable to expect more wealthy buyers coming continually for awhile. Any thoughts?

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I'd rather buy something in Ladner or South Surrey or even frickin' Fraser Heights. When we moved here, we looked at Vancouver, then noted that unless you are living in Yaletown, you need a car for *everything*. And plus, houses that look like crack shacks for 1.5 mil? That's insane. There's nothing in Vancouver, and I mean nothing, that makes a crap house worth that much. If you live at E 22nd and Ontario, there really isn't a lot close by. Nothing that couldn't be found close by in Burnaby or Coquitlam or Surrey or Langley.

Vancouver is very, very overrated. I have traveled quite a bit. You know where everything is close and convenient? Paris. Rome. London, to an extent. Rio de Janeiro, even. Asia, in general, although I haven't been there yet. The Lower Mainland has a big separation of residential areas and commercial areas. That makes it so that you can't feasibly walk anywhere and do your groceries and shopping, unless you happen to live near a "Centre" (Metrotown, Richmond Centre, Lougheed Town Centre, Edmonds Town Centre, etc). Even, say, if you live down on 65th and SW Marine, and work downtown, you're looking at about 45 minutes between buses and train. From here in Surrey, I take a total of 45 minutes to make it downtown.

Except for the postal code, no difference, really.

There's someone getting shot or stabbed or whatever every week in Surrey. The worst thing I have to deal with in Richmond is C-lais.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by PJ

Lifestyle, my friend.

This really hit a nerve, and I couldn't help myself.

Vancouver being overrated is easy for someone who's been all over the place to say. What about people who work/live downtown? People who grew up with all their friends and family in Vancouver? The social angle is a big part of why the prices are what they are.

Doesn't matter where you live.. I think most people would need a car for *everything*

I've done a fair bit of travelling outside of North America as well and in Western Europe, at least, there are many places where you could literally live your entire life without needing anything more than a Moped... if even that. But, really, it's all about location and what sort of lifestyle you want to live. Hell, even here you can do it. There are places outside of the major cities where you can get away with not having a car as well, so it's not just restricted to DT Van or along Skytrain routes.

Originally Posted by PJ

"Crap houses?" how much do you think the cost of renovations is over the cost of the land? Anyone can make a house look pretty. 1.5 Mil for a crack house? Refer to the 2 Mil house page 1. You just need to do your homework about who to ask and where to look.

The majority of RE pricing is the land, not the house. You could have a slab of land in the middle of the British Properties with nothing but a rundown crack shack and it will still fetch nearly as much as the multi-million dollar properties on either side of it. Houses don't cost that much to build (relatively speaking, of course) when you consider the overall price of what you're paying for.

Originally Posted by PJ

For me, all my friends and family are in Vancouver. If I lived out in Surrey/White Rock, I sure as hell don't want to drive 45+ minutes there and back every time I get invited to grab a bite or a cup of coffee with some friends. (That's if they even ask, knowing I live all the way out there.)

Why not? I grew up in South Langley and it really wasn't that long of a drive to get into Vancouver. I used to visit friends at UBC all the time during my college days and even now I'll still drive into DT to have lunch or even grab a coffee with people. Yes, it's not as convenient as driving five minutes down the road, but really... there are very few people in the world where an extra 30 minutes spent travelling to see friends is such a large issue that they would stop hanging out with said friends. (Not saying you're one; just stating that an extra few minutes spent driving shouldn't be the determining factor whether you hang out with friends or not.)

Originally Posted by PJ

It's all about lifestyle choice. Why do you think the prices are what they are? Why do you think Vancouver is the "core"?

To add to this, aside from status, is lifestyle choice again. Depends where you grew up and/or where your social life lies.

If I had no social life, then hell, it wouldn't matter where I lived. Or if everyone I knew lived in Surrey, then I wouldn't mind living there. But personally, I grew up in Vancouver, all my close friends are in Vancouver, and I'm downtown almost everyday.

The thing is there's a social life in every city. Yes, Vancouver may be the "entertainment hub," but really only if you're into hitting up clubs. There are plenty of scenes available to those living in Coq, Langley, Burnaby, etc., etc. But as you said, it depends on your lifestyle.

Originally Posted by PJ

Though I'm sure priorities will change after starting a family..

You have no idea how true that will be.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Ronin

There's someone getting shot or stabbed or whatever every week in Surrey. The worst thing I have to deal with in Richmond is C-lais.

Yeah, 'cause White Rock, Cloverdale, Morgan Creek, and all the rest of those areas are such hot beds for murders...

Besides, Surrey is probably the largest municipality in BC. Of course there's going to be a larger amount of crime in an area that covers nearly triple the square footage of Vancouver and Richmond.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by bing

it's reasonable to expect more wealthy buyers coming continually for awhile. Any thoughts?

Investor class immigrants to BC have fallen 10% over the last 3 years to < 5K this year
Emigration to other provinces is up and now BC is in net loss territory, so all those Albertans with oil money are nolonger coming here.
>70% of Canadians already own a house.
~60% of Canadians live pay-cheque to pay-cheque (ie no saving to buy a house)
~10% of Canadians make > $80K/yr
House prices in the GVA dipped last month, only slightly, yet they actually fell.
House prices are falling in the interior, sales and lucrative construction jobs driving the industry-less interior have dried up.

Draw your own conclusions.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Ronin

There's someone getting shot or stabbed or whatever every week in Surrey. The worst thing I have to deal with in Richmond is C-lais.

You're many times more likely to die in a traffic death than be murdered. Look it up.

[Culverin]

If I was stabbed for my wallet and randomly shot from a botched drive-by shooting, I don't think I'd be as pissed off and angry at the world compared to getting run over by a c-lai because she ran through a red light.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Why not? I grew up in South Langley and it really wasn't that long of a drive to get into Vancouver. I used to visit friends at UBC all the time during my college days and even now I'll still drive into DT to have lunch or even grab a coffee with people. Yes, it's not as convenient as driving five minutes down the road, but really... there are very few people in the world where an extra 30 minutes spent travelling to see friends is such a large issue that they would stop hanging out with said friends. (Not saying you're one; just stating that an extra few minutes spent driving shouldn't be the determining factor whether you hang out with friends or not.)

Yeah.. I'll admit I'm a bit spoiled when it comes to this. My 10 or so closest friends are less than a 10 minute drive away. I mean schedule wise.. I could send out a big text to people to grab a bite, and meet them there within 15 minutes. 5 minute drive + 30 minute meal + 5 minute drive home is 40 minutes.. In that time, someone out in Surrey wouldn't have even made it down into Van yet. For that person, it'd be 45 minute drive + 30 minute meal + 45 minute drive home, you're looking at ~2 hours.

And I'm not saying if you're out of Vancouver, you'll stop hanging out with friends altogether, just maybe not as often as you could. I guess I've seen it happen first hand.. One of our close friends moved out to White Rock, and a lot of the time if my "Vancouver friends" have 1-1.5 hours to grab a quick bite, they don't even bother calling our buddy out in White Rock, because of his travel time. No, this is not a determining factor to buying a house, but again, it really depends on the lifestyle you choose. Like I said, I'm a very social person, I like being out as much as I can.

Originally Posted by Lomac

The thing is there's a social life in every city. Yes, Vancouver may be the "entertainment hub," but really only if you're into hitting up clubs. There are plenty of scenes available to those living in Coq, Langley, Burnaby, etc., etc. But as you said, it depends on your lifestyle.

Of course there is. I'm sure if I grew up in Langley and everyone I knew was there, I'd have no problem staying put. I'm saying for me personally, growing up and living in Vancouver, there's no where else I'd rather be.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by PJ

Of course there is. I'm sure if I grew up in Langley and everyone I knew was there, I'd have no problem staying put. I'm saying for me personally, growing up and living in Vancouver, there's no where else I'd rather be.

I didn't respond to your other post, yet this was the crux of your argument then too. That doesn't explain price differences, as most people tend to settle within a 100km of where they grew up, and prices in other Canadian cities have not blown up like in Vancouver.

Thus your point is moot, unless you're arguing that all people who grew up in Vancouver are insane and will buy houses at any cost.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by taylor192

Thus your point is moot, unless you're arguing that all people who grew up in Vancouver are insane and will buy houses at any cost.

Close. Money aside, people who grew up in Vancouver, have their work and social life in Vancouver, will strive to stay in Vancouver. There's no argument here.

Now when money comes into play, that's when their lifestyle choice comes in. Take that "Vancouverite" and ask, do you want to pay more to live in Vancouver (or live in a smaller place), or do you not mind the 45+ minute drive both ways and live out in Surrey?

And it seems to be trending now that people are preferring to still live in Vancouver, either in a smaller place, or paying more for an average place. So I guess to some extent, yes, people who are from Vancouver are "insane." I even asked my mom, the most typical cheap Asian person, if she would get a bigger, less expensive place in Surrey, and she gave an immediate, astounding "no way."
Why do you think Vancouver property is in such high demand, and Surrey places are a dime a dozen?

Of course this isn't as big of a choice for people who didn't grow up in Vancouver. But for people who did, are they willing to pay x amount more to stay in Vancouver? That's lifestyle choice.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by PJ

Of course this isn't as big of a choice for people who didn't grow up in Vancouver. But for people who did, are they willing to pay x amount more to stay in Vancouver? That's lifestyle choice.

Exactly, and that was my point. Prices in Vancouver are insane for no valid reason, really, other than postal code. For people who didn't grow up in Vancouver, it makes no sense really whatsoever, especially people that, say, live in Vancouver and work in Langley. There's no real reason, like infrastructure, or better commerce, or cheaper property tax (lol).

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

Exactly, and that was my point. Prices in Vancouver are insane for no valid reason, really, other than postal code. For people who didn't grow up in Vancouver, it makes no sense really whatsoever, especially people that, say, live in Vancouver and work in Langley. There's no real reason, like infrastructure, or better commerce, or cheaper property tax (lol).

Personal preference aside. The numbers probably won't make sense. I'm really pressing on this lifestyle choice because its the only thing that seems to make sense. I mean, it must be the way it is for a reason. If on paper, Coq/Langley/Surrey are the places to be, why hasn't everyone gone out there already?

The only "real reasons" I'd imagine is Vancouver's developed downtown core (more high-end jobs maybe..?), proximity to downtown, transit (stops are like 30 seconds - 2 minutes away on the skytrain in Vancouver..), all the "happenings" (festivals, parades, etc.) are usually in Vancouver, and I guess status/convenience of living in the popular landmark of Vancouver.

[vitaminG]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

Just buy in White Rock. Living in Vancouver is overrated.

the city of white rock is this tiny little rectangle, houses arent exactly cheap there either. Everything surrounding that little square is called SURREY.

FYI POCO has more shootings and murders than surrey

[t8v6]

Vancouver real estate market has pretty much peaked at this point. There's not a lot a lot higher that prices can go. I'm predicting value of housing will drop significantly over the next 10 yrs.

[Death2Theft]

All the stores on main street, king ed skytrain station, all the stores on cambie. Those are all within 5 blocks walking I guess your fat lazy ass just needs to walk abit more. Theatre on cambie, swimming pool/gym/ice rink at nat bailey, vancouver raquet club, queen elizabeth... just off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by Mr.C

If you live at E 22nd and Ontario, there really isn't a lot close by. Nothing that couldn't be found close by in Burnaby or Coquitlam or Surrey or Langley.

Vancouver is very, very overrated. I have traveled quite a bit. You know where everything is close and convenient? Paris. Rome. London, to an extent. Rio de Janeiro, even. Asia, in general, although I haven't been there yet. The Lower Mainland has a big separation of residential areas and commercial areas. That makes it so that you can't feasibly walk anywhere and do your groceries and shopping, unless you happen to live near a "Centre" (Metrotown, Richmond Centre, Lougheed Town Centre, Edmonds Town Centre, etc). Even, say, if you live down on 65th and SW Marine, and work downtown, you're looking at about 45 minutes between buses and train. From here in Surrey, I take a total of 45 minutes to make it downtown.

Except for the postal code, no difference, really.

[fsy82]

I've lived in New Westminster all my life and I am now moving to Surrey. The two reason are one both my wife and I work in Surrey and hate commuting in the morning and evenings. Secondly the prices are much more affordable in Surrey then in New West or Burnaby. We got a 1500 square foot Townhome for under 350,000 brand new. Its out of the main Indian sector of Surrey. Its located very close to HWY 10 near city of surrey. Community to downtown Vancouver during weekends takes about 25-35mins which isnt too bad. Again its a lifestyle choice. I prefer being close to my home and not sitting in traffic for an hour.