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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 10-15-2011, 10:59 PM   #1
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Proceeding on a Red Light (crosswalk, non-intersection)

During motorcycle school, my instructor mentioned that if there is a red light at a non-intersection (for example, a traffic light that's only for a crosswalk in the middle of a block), you only have to stop, check that it's clear, then you may proceed. Is this true?

The best I could find in the MVA is Section 129 (5)

(5) When a red light is exhibited at a place other than an intersection by a traffic control signal,
(a) the driver of a vehicle approaching the signal must cause it to stop before entering the nearest marked crosswalk in the vicinity of the signal, or if there is no marked crosswalk, before reaching the signal, and
(b) a pedestrian may proceed across the roadway.

A few examples come to mind. All of the examples have a full traffic light, but there are NO roads (for cars) intersecting at this point.

1) No.3 by Richmond-Brighouse station
2) Rupert between Broadway and Grandview (right by Rupert station)
3) W.2nd Avenue right by the Olympic Village station (this is just west of VPD headquarters)
4) 72nd Avenue in Surrey, just E of 113rd Street. It's a long block with an elementary school on one side.

It doesn't say you can go, but doesn't say you can't either. Hopefully one of the mods can clarify this, before I end up with a ticket. Thanks!

Also, do the 4 locations I listed all fall under this? 3) is an especially tricky one. Unfortunately Google StreetView doesn't show the completed section of road.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:44 PM   #2
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I don't know the locations you describe, but as I understand it, a driveway is considered part of the "highway" and as such forms part of the intersection. If there is a driveway at these pedestrian crossings, then I believe they would be considered crossings at intersections.
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Old 10-16-2011, 02:58 AM   #3
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pretty sure stale red means stop and not proceeding until its green
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Old 10-16-2011, 08:22 AM   #4
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Some stand alone red lights always stay red and are intended to get you to stop, proceed when you are sure no traffic is coming, otherwise no vehicle could ever go by the light. These are the ones mentioned in Section 125 above. If they turn green then you should wait until they do. I don't know the places you mention specifically so I can only comment in general terms.
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:42 AM   #5
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Your instructor was correct about red lights not at an intersection.

"intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of the 2 highways that join one another at or approximately at right angles, or the area within which vehicles travelling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict;

"highway" includes

(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,

(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles, and

(c) every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited,

but does not include an industrial road;
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:22 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slammer111 View Post
(5) When a red light is exhibited at a place other than an intersection by a traffic control signal,
(a) the driver of a vehicle approaching the signal must cause it to stop before entering the nearest marked crosswalk in the vicinity of the signal, or if there is no marked crosswalk, before reaching the signal, and
(b) a pedestrian may proceed across the roadway.
I could see this interpreted two ways, I believe this is supposed to apply to those pedestrian controlled lights?

1) If the light is red, you must stop before crossing the crosswalk, allow any pedestrians to proceed, and then you may drive through

2) You must physically come to a stop before the crosswalk, and then ???

I would have to believe 1 is correct, as this seems like an exception to the existing rules of "stop at red lights" and "stop at crosswalks." That's what I do, as I've read this here before and I believe it was stated as legal to proceed through once the crosswalk is clear. I've also had a police vehicle proceed through after me so I'm assuming he saw this the same way.

I do get dirty looks for doing it though...
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
Some stand alone red lights always stay red and are intended to get you to stop, proceed when you are sure no traffic is coming, otherwise no vehicle could ever go by the light. These are the ones mentioned in Section 125 above. If they turn green then you should wait until they do. I don't know the places you mention specifically so I can only comment in general terms.

^aren't those usually flashing red not solid?
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:28 AM   #8
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i have a question about double red lights like the ones on alderbridge at the train xing on shell, and at the intersection of joyce and vaness. under joyce stn there is a double red to let busses pull out of the loop, if you stop at the first light, can you treat it as a stop sign to move forward to the next redlight (providing there is room to do so without blocking the loop at joyce or the tracks at shell)?
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raid3n View Post
^aren't those usually flashing red not solid?
The more common ones are but I have seen both types during my travels. Either way, if you see a red light, stop first then look at how you can proceed safely and legally.
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raid3n View Post
i have a question about double red lights like the ones on alderbridge at the train xing on shell, and at the intersection of joyce and vaness. under joyce stn there is a double red to let busses pull out of the loop, if you stop at the first light, can you treat it as a stop sign to move forward to the next redlight (providing there is room to do so without blocking the loop at joyce or the tracks at shell)?
If you look closely, there's a sign next to the first set of red lights that reads "stop here on red". So i see it as, if you approach the the intersection and the light is red and you haven't pass the first set of lights, then stop there until it's green. else if you have already gone past the first set, then stop at the second set of lights, given your car is not long enough to have the rear stop on the track
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
Your instructor was correct about red lights not at an intersection.

"intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, then the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of the 2 highways that join one another at or approximately at right angles, or the area within which vehicles travelling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict;

"highway" includes

(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,

(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles, and

(c) every private place or passageway to which the public, for the purpose of the parking or servicing of vehicles, has access or is invited,

but does not include an industrial road;
so then are you saying it's ok to proceed after you are stopped? like the no.3 and brighouse station place the OP mentioned? because those set of red lights do turn green
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Old 10-16-2011, 11:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raid3n View Post
i have a question about double red lights like the ones on alderbridge at the train xing on shell, and at the intersection of joyce and vaness. under joyce stn there is a double red to let busses pull out of the loop, if you stop at the first light, can you treat it as a stop sign to move forward to the next redlight (providing there is room to do so without blocking the loop at joyce or the tracks at shell)?
Next time you drive by the intersection of Alderbridge and Shell, take a look at the lines past the railway tracks. There is no stop line, just the crosswalk markings. The stop line is, as indicated by the signs, at the first set of lights, before the tracks.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nsx042003 View Post
If you look closely, there's a sign next to the first set of red lights that reads "stop here on red". So i see it as, if you approach the the intersection and the light is red and you haven't pass the first set of lights, then stop there until it's green. else if you have already gone past the first set, then stop at the second set of lights, given your car is not long enough to have the rear stop on the track
With the timing of the lights, you will either make it through the intersection, or have enough time to stop at the appropriate spot. Especially with the advance warning board warning that the lights will be changing as you come down the ramp from Hwy 91.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:33 AM   #13
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The one on Rupert between Grandview and Broadway is not an intersection. It's just a crosswalk.

You'd have to come to a complete stop first and if there are no pedestrians, then you can go, but the thing is the light is so short, I never bother. Plus, I don't want to do this and have a rookie cop see it and not know and give me a ticket. Not worth the hassle to save a few seconds.

The officer who writes in the Vancouver Sun also mentioned this before in one of her articles. The key is that it must not be an intersection (as per the defiinition by Skidmark), you must come to a complete stop first, and there must be no pedestrians on the crosswalk or about to step on the crosswalk.
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Old 10-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #14
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No.3 by Richmond-Brighouse station

This is an intersection. If you're going south bound there is a driveway coming from Richmond Centre Mall. This is also a very busy cross walk and is only activated when there are pedestrians. Save yourself the trouble and wait 20 seconds for it to turn green.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sho_bc View Post
Next time you drive by the intersection of Alderbridge and Shell, take a look at the lines past the railway tracks. There is no stop line, just the crosswalk markings. The stop line is, as indicated by the signs, at the first set of lights, before the tracks.

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Wow, that's tricky... I never realized that.
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Old 10-17-2011, 01:08 PM   #16
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Another example is on Fraser Street at 37th.

It's for bicyclists only, and it is not an intersection by definition.

You should be able to proceed through the red light after stopping.
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