REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

exxoid · 10-27-2011, 05:07 PM

Hello,

I have gotten myself into a dilemma where I was unaware of causing scratches to another parked car, leaving the scene and later in the week receiving a collision report mail and then calling up local RCMP to pickup a ticket regarding "not waiting at the scene" issue.

My car has no visible damage, the report states the damage is minor (I have not seen the other car, but I drive a truck and the car that was scratched was a civic according to the report.. so body construction might be more rebust).

Now I have no problems paying my share of damage for the parked car, however I do have a problem picking up a ticket for not waiting for an officer. Chances are I had my music loud (I do have 2x sub-woofers installed where my seat is always bouncy).

What is the correct course of action here? Do I pay for a ticket I was unaware of, or go to court for it?

exxoid · 10-27-2011, 05:34 PM

The ticket being served to me is "Failed to stop after unattended collision" : Section 68 (2) Fail to stop after collision with unattended vehicle".

Now this is listed in "Offence Act VIOLATION TICKET ADMINISTRATION AND FINES REGULATION" in BC Law.

Is this something that will become an ICBC issue if I settle the damage with the car owner? Or will it not escalate to ICBC if the other party chose not to? So as to say, in the end not affect my insurance since ICBC would not be involved, or being served this are they already?

gc200 · 10-27-2011, 07:48 PM

well if u wer unaware of it u can go to court and if it says minor damage maybe u can contact that person and work something out.(maybe pay for the damage)

exxoid · 10-27-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gc200

well if u wer unaware of it u can go to court and if it says minor damage maybe u can contact that person and work something out.(maybe pay for the damage)

I am already in contact with the person, and they are willing to just settle this outside of the ICBC process.

My only concern now is the ticket that I got, if its wise to dispute so that I don't have this on my ICBC record; if I choose to dispute the ticket.. do I need a lawyer (seeing that this route then would probably cost more than paying the $170 ticket) but this still falls into me paying for a ticket that I was not aware of but is now in my lap to deal with.

However I wanted to bounce it here, to see what others suggest given the situation.

ninjatune · 10-27-2011, 08:24 PM

What do you plan to use as a defense? You are in fact guilty of the offence... you have the right to dispute, however if you show up with no defence the JJP will be pissed for wasting their time.

exxoid · 10-27-2011, 08:43 PM

I am guilty of scratching the car yes, if you read my post I am not defending this. I am however pissed off that I am being served a violation ticket for failing to stop after unattended collision without my knowledge of it.

I cannot possibly be the only person this having happened to, I've witnessed countless shitty drivers that scratch cars without being aware of it because they are tunnel visions in parking lots.

This is my defence for my ticket. A weak one yes, but because the scratch was very minor that mixed with a loud (not illegal also) music environment I did not feel a thing and simply drove off. Shitty Defence? Yes, but it is most definitely realistic as well given the conditions.

So yes I am going to dispute, but what are my chances of getting anywhere with this? Instead of just letting them have their way without a fight, the scratch and the violation (the part I am trying to fight off).

Anyone with some law experience, care to comment?

gc200 · 10-27-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exxoid

I am already in contact with the person, and they are willing to just settle this outside of the ICBC process.

My only concern now is the ticket that I got, if its wise to dispute so that I don't have this on my ICBC record; if I choose to dispute the ticket.. do I need a lawyer (seeing that this route then would probably cost more than paying the $170 ticket) but this still falls into me paying for a ticket that I was not aware of but is now in my lap to deal with.

However I wanted to bounce it here, to see what others suggest given the situation.

dont worry theres a lot of lawyers walking around there willing to help people with their case FOR FREE. buddy of mine had to go to the court few months ago and lawyer just approached him. my buddy didnt wanna talked to him coz he thought it was gonna cost him but lawyer said its for free coz a lot them are doing practice from UBC. so just grab one from there and tell your story.

zulutango · 10-28-2011, 07:20 AM

A practice lawyer still going to university is unlikely to be somebody that I would entrust my future freedom or finances. I would even wonder if they had passed the bar exam and were able to legally appear in court as a lawyer? I have never heard of the situation you gave us where a qualified lawyer trolled a court waiting room looking for clients that he wanted to work for for free? Unless legal aid is involved i can't see them "giving it away for free". Like hookers, they both charges for their services by the hour. (Before you get upset, I have several good friends who are lawyers and judges.)

Traffic law is so specific and pays so little when compared with criminal law, that very few fully qualified lawyers know their way around even a simple speeding charge. It just doesn't make financial sense. In my experience, crown would have to prove that you were aware, or a reasonable person would have to be aware, that you hit the car. Damage and circumstances would have to be substantial enough that you must have been aware of the impact. If you raise reasonable doubt to the JP then you walk. Mentioning that you had the music cranked in a tight parking lot where,as you stated...people had tunnel vision, might be used by the crown as an indication that you chose to drive without paying full attention in circumstances you yourself described as requiring more attention, not less.

gc200 · 10-28-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

A practice lawyer still going to university is unlikely to be somebody that I would entrust my future freedom or finances. I would even wonder if they had passed the bar exam and were able to legally appear in court as a lawyer? I have never heard of the situation you gave us where a qualified lawyer trolled a court waiting room looking for clients that he wanted to work for for free? Unless legal aid is involved i can't see them "giving it away for free". Like hookers, they both charges for their services by the hour. (Before you get upset, I have several good friends who are lawyers and judges.)

Traffic law is so specific and pays so little when compared with criminal law, that very few fully qualified lawyers know their way around even a simple speeding charge. It just doesn't make financial sense. In my experience, crown would have to prove that you were aware, or a reasonable person would have to be aware, that you hit the car. Damage and circumstances would have to be substantial enough that you must have been aware of the impact. If you raise reasonable doubt to the JP then you walk. Mentioning that you had the music cranked in a tight parking lot where,as you stated...people had tunnel vision, might be used by the crown as an indication that you chose to drive without paying full attention in circumstances you yourself described as requiring more attention, not less.

yah i hear meng, but im just throwing some ideas for him. my buddy of mine got away with 1yr liscenes suspension and he didnt have to pay 600+ instead he paid only half of that.haha. in terms of thousands of $$$ bill then defenitely i would spend $100-120/hr for the lawyer to defend,etc.

zulutango · 10-28-2011, 03:55 PM

Most real lawyers charge at least a grand an hour for court time and close to that for prep time. I get hired as an expert these days and I charge per hour for research, report prep, travel time, waiting room time and time on the stand. All the lawyers I know do the same.

Soundy · 10-30-2011, 08:56 PM

I think everyone is overlooking a basic issue here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by exxoid

Hello,

I have gotten myself into a dilemma where I was unaware of causing scratches to another parked car, leaving the scene and later in the week receiving a collision report mail and then calling up local RCMP to pickup a ticket regarding "not waiting at the scene" issue.

My car has no visible damage, the report states the damage is minor (I have not seen the other car, but I drive a truck and the car that was scratched was a civic according to the report.. so body construction might be more rebust).

Now I have no problems paying my share of damage for the parked car, however I do have a problem picking up a ticket for not waiting for an officer. Chances are I had my music loud (I do have 2x sub-woofers installed where my seat is always bouncy).

What is the correct course of action here? Do I pay for a ticket I was unaware of, or go to court for it?

First question that comes to mind is, what proof is there that OP actually caused the damage? A single statement from the other car's owner? Any other witnesses? Photos? Video?

I'd say the first thing to do is to contact the issuing officer (who it would seem did not witness the incident) and ask for disclosure on the charge - that would let you know why someone thinks why it was your truck that caused the damage, as well as why they think you knew about the hit and left anyway, because it seems to me (zulu can confirm) that such a charge would presume you knew that you hit the other car and left anyway.

Because think about it... if you DIDN'T KNOW that you hit this car, then HOW WOULD YOU KNOW TO STICK AROUND?

If you can make the case that you didn't know you'd hit the car, then you may be able to get the cop to simply cancel the ticket...