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Old 12-22-2011, 10:08 AM   #1
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The cost to travel across the new Port Mann Bridge

"Cars will be $3, a big semi will be assessed at $9, a smaller truck like a cube van is $6 and the toll for motorcycles will be $1.50,” says Max Logan with Port Mann-Highway 1 Project.

New Port Mann bridge a year away from opening to traffic
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:25 AM   #2
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Fuck them, Fuck the goverment for tolling the main artery for the lower mainland. I take that bridge every day and will be losing 2-3k a year and I'm beyond fucken pissed.

I thought they couldnt toll a #1 hwy but we have no say. Our tax's give the fat cats bonuses and they gas tax and toll us for everything else.........

I'm beyond livid and pissed which I'm sure lots of people are and we could complain but we have no say cause this day and age we dont have any rights...
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:26 AM   #3
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^ ditto.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:28 AM   #4
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$9 for big semi's is ridiculous,as if the drivers don't already pay enough to operate those trucks.

Now we soon will be paying more for stuff for the semi's to offset the cost of the toll.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:29 AM   #5
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by murd0c View Post
Fuck them, Fuck the goverment for tolling the main artery for the lower mainland. I take that bridge every day and will be losing 2-3k a year and I'm beyond fucken pissed.

I thought they couldnt toll a #1 hwy but we have no say. Our tax's give the fat cats bonuses and they gas tax and toll us for everything else.........

I'm beyond livid and pissed which I'm sure lots of people are and we could complain but we have no say cause this day and age we dont have any rights...
Legally a province cannot toll highway 1,but the loophole is,the Portmann bridge is not considered a highway,it's a bridge,that's how they are getting away with it.

Man I feel bad for anyone that takes the bridge everyday for work,as if they don't already pay enough for gas,now they gotta pay more for this bullshit.
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:39 AM   #7
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Legally a province cannot toll highway 1,but the loophole is,the Portmann bridge is not considered a highway,it's a bridge,that's how they are getting away with it.

Man I feel bad for anyone that takes the bridge everyday for work,as if they don't already pay enough for gas,now they gotta pay more for this bullshit.
It's BS fucken loophole and it's a joke plain and simple.

I jsut don't understand where all of our money is going? back in the old days even the 80's with the Alex Fraser no tolling our tax's went towards it with no issues. Now we have more people with higher tax's and we have to pay more then in the past?? I just don't understand where the cash is going can someone explain this???
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:41 AM   #8
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^this is totally just my guess/estimate.... But I think it might have to do with the wage and social responsibility cost... Like yes we get paid a lot more than b4... But our cost of living have risen even higher than our wage.... And come on... We didn't have to pay for druggies/wellfare back then on things like social housing and free clinics and crap....

Don't mean to hijack the thread... But ya I feel bad for the people who needs to cross the bridge everyday... I rmbr a few years back when they jacked up the price of the ferries... Never been to the island since.... Seriously the province is screwing over their own economy...
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Old 12-22-2011, 10:42 AM   #9
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It's BS fucken loophole and it's a joke plain and simple.

I jsut don't understand where all of our money is going? back in the old days even the 80's with the Alex Fraser no tolling our tax's went towards it with no issues. Now we have more people with higher tax's and we have to pay more then in the past?? I just don't understand where the cash is going can someone explain this???
I'll take the random guess and blame... healthcare.

With the amount of immigrants coming in to abuse it, and the baby boomer generation turning into seniors, I'd say a lot of money would probably go to healthcare and then you have Translink's pockets.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:07 AM   #10
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If I still lived on the mainland, I would hate the fact that they're tolling such a major highway (with poor alternative options).

On the other hand they say it will save an average of an hour a day... In reality I don't know how true that is but an hour of my time is worth way more than $6 to me. Not to mention gas & wear and tear on vehicle from stop-and-go traffic everyday.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:07 AM   #11
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Now we have more people with higher tax's and we have to pay more then in the past??
We're actually paying less tax than years ago. BC income tax rate has decreased for over a decade.

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I'll take the random guess and blame... healthcare.
and you'd be correct. Government raids the gas tax coffers to pay for healthcare, cause while our GDP increases 2-4% healthcare has been increasing at 6%+.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:07 AM   #12
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I want to know why it is costing us so much to building these bridges?! I get that it ain't cheap, but these numbers seem a little high:

Alex Fraser Bridge: $58 million
Golden Ears Bridge: $808 million
New Port Mann: $2.4 BILLION
Proposed Patullo Bridge: $1.2 Billion

After 2015, the Alex Fraser Bridge will be the only crossing not tolled.

I also remember some talk about tolling the Knight and Oak St. Bridge.

I think it is complete bullshit that this is happening seeing as we are a "commuter" city. It is so rare that people actually live in the city they work in.

That $850/mth 200 sq.ft. apartment DT is starting to look more appealing...
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:14 AM   #13
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The part I find a little annoying is:

The Evergreen line - a $1.4B project that will mainly benefit Coquitlam/Maple Ridge - is being partially paid through a newly approved gas tax that applies to all metro vancouver residents (that includes Surrey & Langley).

The Port Mann Bridge - a $3.3B project that will benefit those from many communities, truckers, and out of province users has to be paid for by the users. Also keep in mind this project includes the expansion of 37km of Highway 1 roadway from Langley to Burnaby.

I can see the alternative argument that the users should have to pay for what they benefit from. However, Surrey/Langley residents are being hit with taxes for projects that benefit other communities while also being told to fund a project that benefits everyone.

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Old 12-22-2011, 11:14 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murd0c View Post
I take that bridge every day and will be losing 2-3k a year and I'm beyond fucken pissed.
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Originally Posted by dark0821 View Post
But ya I feel bad for the people who needs to cross the bridge everyday...
Ever stop to calculate how much gas you waste in the half-hour-long dead-crawl up to the bridge either way? Might wanna see how much smooth traffic flow will save before you get all self-righteous. What's your time worth?

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I thought they couldnt toll a #1 hwy
Lotta people seem to think that. I've never seen anyone point out explicitly where this is stated.

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I rmbr a few years back when they jacked up the price of the ferries... Never been to the island since.... Seriously the province is screwing over their own economy...
This will probably come as a surprise to you, but... ferries run on petroleum-based fuel. Which has also increased in price. Think of how much more it costs you to fill your car than a few years ago... then imagine how much more it costs them to run those things.

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Man I feel bad for anyone that takes the bridge everyday for work,as if they don't already pay enough for gas,now they gotta pay more for this bullshit.
Okay, time to trot out a real-life example again.

We live in Pitt Meadows. My wife works in Langley. Her commute via the Port Mann was over an hour each way, and our little 4-cylinder Jeep Patriot burned a quarter tank of gas *per day* for this 37km trip. Now with the Golden Ears Bridge, she's to and from work in 20-25 minutes and goes through a quarter tank of gas *per week* for a 15km trip (that's right: half the distance, uses 1/5 the gas... just to give an idea of how much gas you waste idling in traffic).

So let's do the math, assuming gas is $1/liter (as it was when she started this job, plus it makes the math easier). 50l tank = $50. 1/4 tank per day = $12.50 per day, or $62.50 per week.

At 1/4 tank per week, that's $12.50 per week. Add $2.85 toll, twice per day, that's $5.70 per day, or $39.90 per week, for a total of $52.40 per week.

So the toll option, with smooth-flowing traffic rather than utter gridlock, is saving $10/week, and that's with a fairly fuel-efficient small SUV. Increase savings accordingly if you drive a bigger SUV or riced-up car.

You can't put a price on getting home and not being completely stressed out and feeling physically drained from that hour+ fighting traffic.

Will everyone see the same kind of savings? Probably not. But before you get all pissed off about it, you might want to look at how all this is going to help your regular travel (not just the bridge, but all the upgrades).

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even the 80's with the Alex Fraser no tolling
So, take the Alex Fraser instead, and stop fucking whining.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:16 AM   #15
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The part I find a little annoying is:

The Evergreen line - a $1.4B project that will mainly benefit Coquitlam/Maple Ridge - is being partially paid through a newly approved gas tax that applies to all metro vancouver residents (that includes Surrey & Langley).
All metro Vancouver residents, including those of us in Coquitlam/Maple Ridge, have already been paying for the other SkyTrain lines... so how is this any different?
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:16 AM   #16
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Legally a province cannot toll highway 1,but the loophole is,the Portmann bridge is not considered a highway,it's a bridge,that's how they are getting away with it.

Man I feel bad for anyone that takes the bridge everyday for work,as if they don't already pay enough for gas,now they gotta pay more for this bullshit.
Is that seriously true?

The MVA definition of highway is:

“highway” includes

(a) every highway within the meaning of the Transportation Act,

(b) every road, street, lane or right of way designed or intended for or used by the general public for the passage of vehicles

Even if it's a bridge, there's still a road on it...
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:18 AM   #17
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I want to know why it is costing us so much to building these bridges?!
To be fair they aren't building a new bridge, they are replacing an existing bridge and dealing with the difficulties of that - yet I do agree it is ridiculous it costs this much.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:19 AM   #18
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The port Mann costs so much because the cost includes taking down the old one as well

I'm gonna be covering my truck with mud
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:22 AM   #19
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Does anyone know what the argument was to remove the old bridge and not twin it?

Though the new bridge is HUGE, I think it would have been beneficial to keep the old one as well and use it for truck traffic.

Was there not enough room?
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:23 AM   #20
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There are two things that will be interesting to watch and see how they play out:

1) How much traffic that is currently using the Port Mann (because it's currently free) switches over to using the Golden Ears

2) How long it will take before growth east of the fraser makes turns the new Port Mann into gridlock again.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:23 AM   #21
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I can see the alternative argument that the users should have to pay for what they benefit from. However, Surrey/Langley residents are being hit with taxes for projects that benefit other communities while also being told to fund a project that benefits everyone.

Kev
Public transit will always be paid by everyone, roads will be paid by those who use them.

You could apply your same logic to roads in rural areas. Why should the 80% of people that live in urban areas pay for the vast amount of rural infrastructure that only the 20% of people that live in rural areas use.

Everything is unfair to a point, at least with this toll you have a choice to avoid paying it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:24 AM   #22
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I want to know why it is costing us so much to building these bridges?! I get that it ain't cheap, but these numbers seem a little high:

Alex Fraser Bridge: $58 million
Golden Ears Bridge: $808 million
New Port Mann: $2.4 BILLION
Proposed Patullo Bridge: $1.2 Billion
Keep in mind, that $2.4B includes all the highway upgrades, including widening, and replacing almost all the existing overpasses because the old one weren't built to accommodate a wider highway. It also includes things like fixing the Cape Horn Interchange, which has been an utter clusterfuck for DECADES because "improvements" were always pieced together and done half-assed.

I don't doubt that a lot of the extra cost is because they have to keep the existing highway flowing by constantly moving sections of road while working on other sections... that's a lot of extra time and labor. That's something they didn't have to do with the Alex Fraser or the Golden Ears bridges.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:26 AM   #23
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Does anyone know what the argument was to remove the old bridge and not twin it?

Though the new bridge is HUGE, I think it would have been beneficial to keep the old one as well and use it for truck traffic.

Was there not enough room?
It's because the bridge is OLD and the maintenance costs are increasing.

The alternate plan to a big new bridge was a smaller "twin" bridge for the old one, but the costs of maintaining and repairing the old one are only going to keep going up as it ages. Replacing it and getting rid of it is the best long-term option.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:27 AM   #24
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I want to know why it is costing us so much to building these bridges?! I get that it ain't cheap, but these numbers seem a little high:

Alex Fraser Bridge: $58 million
Golden Ears Bridge: $808 million
New Port Mann: $2.4 BILLION
Proposed Patullo Bridge: $1.2 Billion

After 2015, the Alex Fraser Bridge will be the only crossing not tolled.

I also remember some talk about tolling the Knight and Oak St. Bridge.

I think it is complete bullshit that this is happening seeing as we are a "commuter" city. It is so rare that people actually live in the city they work in.

That $850/mth 200 sq.ft. apartment DT is starting to look more appealing...
The 2.4 Billion also includes the cost of the upgrades along Highway #1...

Every On/Offramp that they are upgrading etc... I imagine that portion is a pretty huge part of the cost itself.

Edit: Soundy beat me to it.
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Old 12-22-2011, 11:37 AM   #25
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Legally a province cannot toll highway 1,
Trans-Canada Highway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Nova Scotia

Highway 104 in Nova Scotia near Westville
From the New Brunswick border, the main Trans-Canada Highway route continues east into Nova Scotia at Amherst, where it follows the designation of provincial Highway 104. The highway then passes by Truro, where it links with provincial Highway 102 to Halifax, 117 km (73 mi) east of the New Brunswick border. Halifax, like Toronto, is a provincial capital not serviced by a Trans-Canada Highway. There is a 30 km (19 mi) stretch of highway with a toll of $4 per automobile (different rates for other vehicles).
The Confederation Bridge connecting PEI is also part of the TCH and has a $50 one-way toll.

The Nanaimo/Horseshoe Bay ferry route is also considered part of the Trans Canada Highway.

BTW, according to British Columbia Trans-Canada Highway Route: Hope, BC and Kamloops via the #5 Coquihalla (toll) Highway, the Coquihalla is considered a part of the TCH system... it had tolls until just recently as well.
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