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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Some people will disagree with me and think that I am a cruel and disgusting person, but can we just kill them all?
It's ok I think that way sometimes too when I have those devil on one shoulder and angel on other moments. On one side I think doing some of these things makes sense but on the other hand I think we can have some free drugs and boos days and lure them all to a location and unleash like nerve gas on them all or something.
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"back at the line to Babych.... LONG SHOT....Potvin had trouble with it....ADAM SHOOTS SCORES!!!!
The health care costs of drug users would far exceed the cost of free pipes.
Look dude, I am super stoked for ya that you probably got an 'A' on you social studies 10 paper you wrote, but the last time I checked, handing out crack pipes to crackheads ain't "curing" them from their addiction.
You first sentence says it all. What are the health care cost of aiding drug users? Handing them a crack pipe does not take them outta the system....it prolongs it. How can you say that funding crack pipes are going to help addicts stop using and thus cutting the cost of an addict in the health care system?
Also, really excited that SISs have prevent overdose deaths....we need more addicts that are alive and rockin it out.
I get tired of all this hug-a-tree, save a baby whale bullshit attitude that some people throw at the DTES. You see on the news that the gov't is cutting funding for schools, canceling programs for the physically disabled, and seniors living in poverty, all the while funding addicts who have a fucking choice to use.
Look dude, I am super stoked for ya that you probably got an 'A' on you social studies 10 paper you wrote, but the last time I checked, handing out crack pipes to crackheads ain't "curing" them from their addiction.
You first sentence says it all. What are the health care cost of aiding drug users? Handing them a crack pipe does not take them outta the system....it prolongs it. How can you say that funding crack pipes are going to help addicts stop using and thus cutting the cost of an addict in the health care system?
Also, really excited that SISs have prevent overdose deaths....we need more addicts that are alive and rockin it out.
I get tired of all this hug-a-tree, save a baby whale bullshit attitude that some people throw at the DTES. You see on the news that the gov't is cutting funding for schools, canceling programs for the physically disabled, and seniors living in poverty, all the while funding addicts who have a fucking choice to use.
First off, it was a university paper, did you go there?
No, crack pipes and needles won't solve the issue. But not doing anything will make it worse. Drug use will NEVER be eliminated. We don't live in a fucking fairy tale. It's unrealistic. It will never be completely gone, but addressing the related issues is a good start.
As far as InSite, it's been around since 2003 and all studies point to the facility saving YOUR tax dollars that would have otherwise been spent in the health care system. I don't see free crack pipes having much of a different effect.
from the article:
“What this boils down to is it’s about disease prevention,” said Beutel. “It’s about preventing more communicable diseases which land these people in hospital on a frequent basis and clogs up emergency rooms.”
I'd rather they spend 60K on a harm reduction plan than way more than that for the hospital costs of addicts, which will be much higher.
maybe this should be played on a big tv screen in downtown so all the homeless people can see lol
I liked the part about if you don't think you can do it you won't. I had a real hard week today and there has been more then one time I've said I've said to myself I can't do this. I'm going in with swagger tomorrow and doing it, get the fuck out the way.
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The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth. - Rocky Balboa
The facility costs less than a million/year to run, IIRC.
2010-2011 operation budget was $2,969,440.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwy
First off, it was a university paper, did you go there?
Yes, and believe it or not, ONE of my degreeS was in Sociology
I also don't believe that we should treat drug-use as a disease. Cancer is a disease. Diabetes is a disease. It is a slap in the face to those suffering from actually diseases.
Arguing things like Insite is always a fruitless affair.
Supporters will always throw in your face that Insite saves lives, and based on some faux moral high ground bullshit you will never be able to talk to them.
They're totally missing the point. No shit they save lives. If you had a member of the Green Lantern corp sit in every car, then we'd have no accidents. You don't need studies to determine that. It's simple logic.
The point is that they made a CHOICE to do something illegal and detrimental to their lives.
So why is the government condoning this blatant disregard for the law?
Drugs carry consequences, and surprise surprise, one of them is death.
If you're going to do something, you should be prepared to handle the possible consequences of your actions.
I admit that I'm a heartless dbag. I truly believe that these drug addicts who contribute nothing to society don't deserve to live.
There are kids all over our province (through no fault of their own) who have life threatening diseases, who are born into poor families who can't even afford lunches for them at school.
Most of them rely a lot on donations; be it blood, time, food, money, presents during Christmas time.
With all that going on, why the fuck are we spending money giving crack pipes to homeless people.
Research has also shown that InSite has increased client participation in detox programs and addiction counseling. Their budget has grown since '03, but InSite still continues to save taxpayer dollars. It seems logical that their budget would grow as studies prove the facility's effectiveness.
Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.
anyone notice that these crackheads all have similar physical and personality attributes?
i notice most of them have a really fucked up jaw / mouth and its always physically recognizable, and personality wise... they love to go up to random strangers and talk to them with the same happy go lucky attitude
Arguing things like Insite is always a fruitless affair.
Supporters will always throw in your face that Insite saves lives, and based on some faux moral high ground bullshit you will never be able to talk to them.
They're totally missing the point. No shit they save lives. If you had a member of the Green Lantern corp sit in every car, then we'd have no accidents. You don't need studies to determine that. It's simple logic.
The point is that they made a CHOICE to do something illegal and detrimental to their lives.
So why is the government condoning this blatant disregard for the law?
Drugs carry consequences, and surprise surprise, one of them is death.
If you're going to do something, you should be prepared to handle the possible consequences of your actions.
I admit that I'm a heartless dbag. I truly believe that these drug addicts who contribute nothing to society don't deserve to live.
There are kids all over our province (through no fault of their own) who have life threatening diseases, who are born into poor families who can't even afford lunches for them at school.
Most of them rely a lot on donations; be it blood, time, food, money, presents during Christmas time.
With all that going on, why the fuck are we spending money giving crack pipes to homeless people.
It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.
It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.
Research has also shown that InSite has increased client participation in detox programs and addiction counseling. Their budget has grown since '03, but InSite still continues to save taxpayer dollars. It seems logical that their budget would grow as studies prove the facility's effectiveness.
Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.
From my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, the Detox portion of Insite is Onsite.
IMO, Insite is a fucking waste of money and any proceeds towards Insite should be given to Onsite.
Ignoring the fact I want them to die, I'll accept your statement on the disease of Drug Addiction. You know what else is? As Dino mentioned earlier, Gambling Addiction. And whereas Gambling Addiction might not lead to death (even though suicides have been documented), Gambling Addiction, IMO leads to MUCH more serious issues. Do you know why? Because most people who have a gambling addiction are contributing members of society with families. Hence the debt incurred destroys not only themselves, but their families. These people have something to lose, and they lose it. Drug Addicts? They start and end on the street. So why don't we hand out free cheques to gamblers?
It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.
It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.
No one said it's easy.
Are all kids who get sexually abused prostitutes?
Are all people with mental illnesses drug addicts?
No.
It's a choice, simple as that. There is no magical gun that follows certain people around forcing them into things.
Will sexual abuse make it easier for someone to go into prostitution?
Probably.
But at the end of the day, it's still a choice.
If mental illness is a big factor in drug use, then we should be putting money into mental illness. Not giving out free crack pipes and places to shoot up.
Will there ever be a perfect system for helping individuals with mental illness or for preventing young girls from being molested? No.
But that's life.
Shit sucks.
But at the end of the day, we all make decisions.
It doesn't matter if its an easy, unconscious decision, or a hard, concious one. It's still a decision.
Life isn't fair, and if you've been dealt the short end, then that's what you need to deal with.
The Government should NOT be condoning the breaking of laws. Period.
Edit: your same logic can be applied to Gamblers. Most gamblers also have a colored upbringing. So why aren't we giving them money?
Edit: victims are only victims because people around them paint them with that brush. Saying someone is unable to make a good choice because they're a victim to something is really knocking them down.
- clean pipes = no unwanted diseases or infections = these junkies don't have to go through our messed up health care system costing us money
- junkies are gonna get high regardless
- "we should put more into anti addiction programs" - no we shouldn't. do you honestly think these programs help a significant portion of the people that attend them? I don't know about crack, but my friend went to a anti smoking one for a month.. guess what it didn't do anything
-- we have enough of these free programs, don't need anymore imo.
- "govt. is cutting back on public programs etc..." umm spending $10k on some needles isn't going to change that. The reason the govt is cutting back on shit is because we don't have money. It has nothing to do with this insignificant program (monetary wise) [this is a completely different issue]
as far as I see it everyone society has bums/mental illness/hookers/druggies. Sometimes you just gotta put money into them. You might not get a return of investment, but I see it as a charity expense. Sometimes you just gotta dump money into shit. And at least this is helping them.
Last edited by TheKingdom2000; 12-29-2011 at 08:32 PM.
Which, by the way, is something that has been considered. Actually, a bunch of older cops I've met support the idea as well. Not saying I support it, just putting it out there.
@dino
Drug use isn't a disease. Drug addiction is. It's a physiological addiction, their bodies depend on a substance or substances. Without it, they can't function or simply die, and we've seen this happen.
No one tells these people to go for drugs, hell i'm guessing eating healthier would be much cheaper than getting on crack/cocaine whatever the hell they're doing..
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwy
It isn't always a choice. A high percentage of the marginalized population of the DTES have mental illness(es). Like I said, many suffered from family issues and abuse at a young age. You can't pull out a blanket statement and say that everyone has chosen drug addiction.
It's the same deal with prostitutes, for example. You should see the stats..it's alarming how the majority of them were sexually abused by family members as children, among other numbers. No one grows up wanting to be a drug addict or hooker.
They become drug addicts to live in their own mental reality because life is scary. Well get used to it, if you don't do anything to save your own life then you will remain knocked down and life is going to keep trampling on you
Now that I think about it... wtf? I can see needle exchange to prevent sti's but.... wtf does a pipe help with aside from smoking a rock?
I think this is a major point to why I am so frustrated with this whole thing.
I am not a fan of InSite, BUT the argument can be made that it aids in the prevention of spreading diseases (like you pointed out)....but a crack pipe?! I don't get it.
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