Translink Update for 2012

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Again, the issue here is that most people will never manage anything beyond a household in their lives. They don't understand the hard work, the endless strategic thinking, the endless demands, and so on of executive work, particularly in large organizations. They only see something wrong and place the blame on the guys making the large salaries because it's easy.

Couldn't I just turn this around and say that because they are making the large salaries, they should do their job, even if it involves hard work, endless thinking, and unreasonable demands?

I would like to think that these people accepted their executive positions not based on their remuneration, but because they felt they'd be up to the task. And this is where the people kind of lose faith in the entire thing, because they feel that the people making big bucks aren't doing a good job.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

Couldn't I just turn this around and say that because they are making the large salaries, they should do their job, even if it involves hard work, endless thinking, and unreasonable demands?

I would like to think that these people accepted their executive positions not based on their remuneration, but because they felt they'd be up to the task. And this is where the people kind of lose faith in the entire thing, because they feel that the people making big bucks aren't doing a good job.

I think you just made his point for him. The average radio-call-in-show whiner has no idea what work these people are actually doing behind the scenes, what their job actually entails, what hours they are or aren't actually putting in - they just assume that running a massive region-wide transit system is no more complex than running a household and thereby assume that they couldn't possibly be doing anything that's worth anywhere near what they get paid.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

I am not really looking forward to this year winter since I know translink isn't prepare for it and there are going to be huge delays. Is understandable for bus to be late due to road condition but is not acceptable when skytrain is having issue as well. Is not acceptable when people are stranded for 2 or more hours in the skytrain station because skytrain is having issue and it is packed. So why not prevent it from happening? This happens every winter and translink should have learn something by now.

We get one major snowstorm a year, if we're lucky. Is it worthwhile for Translink to spend likely tens of millions on snow removal technology for Skytrain (even if there is such a thing) for one storm a year? Yeah, it does suck if you happen to use the service on the one day every year that results in delays, but it does not make sense economically.

[bing]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

I was a bit confused by his post too, but I think his main point was that Translink gets shitty leadership because the pay sucks (compared to more glorious jobs in the private sector) and the work sucks (after all, who wants to be scrutinized everyday by ill-informed citizens and politicians looking to take cheapshots in order to improve their political careers?)

I get that. He implies that because their "shitty" executives, they should also be paid peanuts yet have all the responsibilities of a large organization. Since it can't go both ways - if we pay them peanuts, then we shouldn't expect much to be fixed either. A better way to judge would be to look at the company's accomplishments given their mandate and resources, but for the average person, that's too much work already.

The thing is that most people work for small to medium sized companies and organizations with shitty corporate cultures, shitty pay, and SOBs for bosses. It's hard for them to have any empathy for executives of large organizations who probably get to see their kids play hockey after a day in the office. In the mind of most people, if you're making 6-10 times the money they're making, then you better do a pretty close to perfect job.

People are paid what their worth and their in those positions because they have no other tangible skills to offer. Whose fault is that?

Doctors provide a valuable service that is tangible to the layperson. Transit executives' work is not tangible and all people see are late buses, higher fares, etc.

True, but they fail to see that these high income earners are the ones funding their medical entitlements in the first place. I guess its a selfish mentality, if it benefits me, then I just won't complain. The majority of the tax money funding these things like transit aren't even from their pockets in the first place. If they actually think they contribute much by paying 3.25 for a 1 zone fare, then they are sadly mistaken. I am not complaining but I spend $15 on gas just to go to school for one day (not including $7-13 parking per day) as I have no choice but to drive. I also did take transit for over half a year for hour and a half long trips daily and I have no complaints about the service (buses were mainly on time and I rarely had to wait for extra trains). For whiners that have no options - their fortunate to even have transit options.

I guess the myth that just because people pay GST/PST, property taxes, and a small amount of income taxes means that all taxpayers are equal. They fail to see how much of that goes back to benefit themselves.

To be fair, educational credentials are not always commensurate with a person's intellect or his ability to perform a job well.

Probably true, but in most cases, the family members I know that had the ambition to get those degrees mastered a lot of other things that made them successful: time management, rational thinking, willingness to learn, adaptability etc.

Again, the issue here is that most people will never manage anything beyond a household in their lives. They don't understand the hard work, the endless strategic thinking, the endless demands, and so on of executive work, particularly in large organizations. They only see something wrong and place the blame on the guys making the large salaries because it's easy.

Which is exactly why they have no right to complain. They are where they are in life because of themselves and the excuses they tell themselves.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by bing

I get that. He implies that because their "shitty" executives, they should also be paid peanuts yet have all the responsibilities of a large organization. Since it can't go both ways - if we pay them peanuts, then we shouldn't expect much to be fixed either. A better way to judge would be to look at the company's accomplishments, but for the average person, that's too much work already.

Yes, good point, but here's an argument frequently put forward:
If I can't drive a BMW, then why should our public services aim to be the best? The driving operating philosophy behind public services is that they should be merely adequate and that means finding competent if not stellar staff who can do a "good enough" job.

Originally Posted by bing

I guess the myth that just because people pay GST/PST, property taxes, and a small amount of income taxes means that all taxpayers are equal. They fail to see how much of that goes back to benefit themselves.

Bingo!

Originally Posted by bing

Probably true, but in most cases, the family members I know that had the ambition to get those degrees mastered a lot of other things that made them successful: time management, rational thinking, willingness to learn, adaptability etc.

I doing a Master degree part-time right now and I've been surprised by the calibre of students that have been admitted into the program (both ways.)

Originally Posted by bing

Which is exactly why they have no right to complain. They are where they are in life because of themselves and the excuses they tell themselves.

The job market stinks and people are afraid of leaving their jobs for better opportunities elsewhere. There is no doubt that incomes are stagnant (though, I'm not sure why governments should get the blame indirectly for the actions of private companies who don't invest in their employees.) The prevailing mantra is that if we at the bottom suffer then everyone at the top should suffer as well. I can understand this argument, but I also think that everyone is more or less in control of their lives and to make the best of their situation.

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[bing]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

If I can't drive a BMW, then why should our public services aim to be the best? The driving operating philosophy behind public services is that they should be merely adequate and that means finding competent if not stellar staff who can do a "good enough" job.

Are you referring to the general attitude of the citizenry? I think Translink should aim to do the best given the resources they have and unfortunately that may translate to only competency at the moment until they stop losing money. To the whiners, I can only say, "beggars can't be choosers" or maybe an increase in fares should be in order for increased services.

And, the previous contention started because far too many people constantly denigrate the execs over pay when there's only 6 VPs + 1 CEO. It's a paltry sum to pay for salaries compared to their almost billion dollar budget and people don't understand what it takes to be one in the first place.

I doing a Master degree part-time right now and I've been surprised by the calibre of students that have been admitted into the program (both ways.)

First off, good for you I can always respect someone who goes for more education to further themselves. Are you doing your masters program here in BC? I guess it'll depend what school you go to and the program itself since I don't think you could suck in an engineering program or be weeded out easily compared to a master's in history for instance.

The job market stinks and people are afraid of leaving their jobs for better opportunities elsewhere. There is no doubt that incomes are stagnant (though, I'm not sure why governments should get the blame indirectly for the actions of private companies who don't invest in their employees.) The prevailing mantra is that if we at the bottom suffer then everyone at the top should suffer as well. I can understand this argument, but I also think that everyone is more or less in control of their lives and to make the best of their situation.

I have to agree with you. It's far easier to blame someone or something else.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by bing

Are you referring to the general attitude of the citizenry? I think Translink should aim to do the best given the resources they have and unfortunately that may translate to only competency at the moment until they stop losing money. To the whiners, I can only say, "beggars can't be choosers" or maybe an increase in fares should be in order for increased services.

There were people on the BC Ferries thread advocating for a no-frills ferry service. I frequently see this type of philosophy being spouted in the media, on the internet, and so on. There is nothing wrong with this general operating principle; people just need to keep their mouths shut if buses don't come with A/C, or if GPS technology is not available, or if Skytrains run on reduced service in freak snowstorms, for example.

First off, good for you I can always respect someone who goes for more education to further themselves. Are you doing your masters program here in BC? I guess it'll depend what school you go to and the program itself since I don't think you could suck in an engineering program or be weeded out easily compared to a master's in history for instance.

Thanks. I'm doing a Master degree locally and it is in a basket-weaving (i.e. non-technical) discipline.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

We get one major snowstorm a year, if we're lucky. Is it worthwhile for Translink to spend likely tens of millions on snow removal technology for Skytrain (even if there is such a thing) for one storm a year? Yeah, it does suck if you happen to use the service on the one day every year that results in delays, but it does not make sense economically.

When it snows more people opt to use the tranist system. Now you have more ppl using public tansit and because of the shitty weather half of the buses and mass delays of skytrains will only cause more people waiting. I think it was a few years ago major snow (not really much snow). Skytrains was delays for more than 2hours and most of the buses wasn't operating yet my dad shitty 1990 toyota with all season have no issue.

You increase fare prices people are going to expect better service.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

When it snows more people opt to use the tranist system. Now you have more ppl using public tansit and because of the shitty weather half of the buses and mass delays of skytrains will only cause more people waiting. I think it was a few years ago major snow (not really much snow). Skytrains was delays for more than 2hours and most of the buses wasn't operating yet my dad shitty 1990 toyota with all season have no issue.

You increase fare prices people are going to expect better service.

So what would you suggest? The purchasing of snow tires for all of the 1462 busses in the fleet? Snowplows on the skytrains?

I agree that there are some flaws for sure. There are certainly some things which should be dealt with. But some problems are unavoidable unless we are willing to spend a disproportionately large amount of money to solve a relatively rarely-occurring problem. The last big snowstorm we had, IIRC, was accompanied by a windstorm. Many of the delays on the Skytrain were from ice or branches that had been blown or fallen on to the tracks; for the most part the Skytrains were running smoothly.

While the trolleybusses really don't do well on slippery hills, I think that's something that needs to be looked at in general; I think if we got rid of the trolley lines it would be beneficial in general, especially if we switched those busses to CNG which are lower cost to run and maintain than diesel, and would allow the maintenance costs to be less split between the various bus types.



This is the kind of thing we should be doing: looking at problems, analyzing the needs and resources we have, and making suggestions that improve overall efficiency to the system and to the problem at hand, rather than simply throwing money at things we don't like. It seems to me that many of the largest complaints people have about Translink is that it throws money down pits, yet people insist that "X problem be solved" without a thought for the costs.

[melloman]

Got to bump this again with more of Translink's AWESOME ideas:

15-month renovation project

TransLink is considering closing Metrotown SkyTrain Station for a 15-month renovation project because the station is due for an upgrade, starting in 2014. It’s going to be a big project and the options under consideration are the 15-month renovation project or one that would involve 28 months of construction.

This is the cheaper option; however, Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan says the cheaper alternative may not be the better choice.

“I think our community is going to react fairly negatively to that kind of impact on a transit station that is taking the most passengers in our city,” Corrigan states.

TransLink employee Jennifer Siddon says no final decision has been made about the renovation project.

Siddon says, ” We are just beginning the discussions with our stakeholders, including the City of Burnaby about how best to proceed with this important upgrade project.”

She says safety during the upgrades will be the top priority.

If Metrotown Skytrain Station is closed, a temporary station would be built nearby.

Image Credit: News1130


Sauce: TransLink considers renovations at Metrotown Skytrain Station | Vancity Buzz | Vancouver Blog

Discuss.

[Graeme S]

Well, it says "they'll build a temporary station nearby". I think it's pretty nuts that they can build a second station, then close the first one, rebuild it, then demolish the replacement all in 15 months for less than it takes to fix the first one.


So, we have our choice on what to make people bitch about: "I can't believe they're making us walk an extra block to get to metrotown--and for more than a year!" or "Can you believe that this construction is taking more than two years to finish? It must be all the unions!"

My big concern is what they're going to do with the Canada line. Most of the stations are at capacity already during rush hour if I remember correctly. And yet Vancouver is building up more along the lines, and the stations have no upgrade capacity. That's gonna be a whole 'nother gong show a decade from now.

[inv4zn]

^sometimes it's inevitable to inconvenience, and inevitably frustrate the public.

This is an instance where I "agree" with Translink's foresight to upgrade the station.

I really don't see any other way to upgrade the station without doing what they said they'd look into doing.

What I would like to see is how well they can convince the public that this is necessary, and reduce any (hardly likely, I know) backlash and mindless complaining.

[melloman]

My issue is the same as Graeme's... How the fuck can you find it CHEAPER and QUICKER to build a temporary station..

Cheapest solution is to close Metrotown and tell everybody to fucking walk from Patterson. Which would have MASSIVE backlash from the public.

[Graeme S]

I'm surprised they didn't propose a bus bridge. Wouldn't that be cheaper? A bus bridge from Royal Oak and Patterson running in just constant cycles. I mean, it'd be chaos, but wouldn't that be cheaper than building and demolishing a whole new station?

[UFO]

Originally Posted by melloman

My issue is the same as Graeme's... How the fuck can you find it CHEAPER and QUICKER to build a temporary station..

Cheapest solution is to close Metrotown and tell everybody to fucking walk from Patterson. Which would have MASSIVE backlash from the public.

When I read this in the paper the other day, I understood it as they are rebuilding the bus loop, not the whole skytrain station. Temporary bus loops/stations are easy and cheap to build/take down. Maybe I read it wrong

[Mr.HappySilp]

THEY could shorten it a good 30% if they have people working 16hours a days even on holidays......

Is going to be a gong show for sure.

[tgill]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

I'm surprised they didn't propose a bus bridge. Wouldn't that be cheaper? A bus bridge from Royal Oak and Patterson running in just constant cycles. I mean, it'd be chaos, but wouldn't that be cheaper than building and demolishing a whole new station?

Quite simple actually, a storage or pocket track exists just east of the current station, setup some temporary stairs, some scaffolding for shelter, and a temporary platform and your done.

The RFP for the design of Metrotown Station upgrade is issued here

The estimate time for construction begin early 2014, and complete early-mid 2016.

Description of the works:
(a) Modifications to the existing Metrotown Station
(i) New east entry
(ii) Addition of a new west entry
(iii) Addition of a central entry at the elevators/central stair
(iv) Addition of new vertical circulation elements that improve access to/from the platform:
a. A new down escalator descending from the platform to the mezzanine.
b. Removal of the existing elevator
c. New stair and escalators from mezzanine to grade at the west entry
d. New stair and escalators from mezzanine to grade at the east entry
e. Two new elevators located near the middle of the platform, accessible via the new central entry
f. A new stair provided mid-platform, connecting to mezzanine and grade level (central entry).
g. New stairs and up escalator provided at east end of the platform to replace existing ones
h. New stairs and up escalator at the west end of the platform
(v) Addition of a full length mezzanine connecting all entries and providing rain protection for passenger island at grade, with each of the three entries containing fare gates and ticketing equipment.
(vi) Bike facility and additional auxiliary spaces at grade level
(b) An expanded transit exchange and a proposed passenger island under the station, including:
(i) Design of the bus exchange, including a traffic impact analysis
(ii) Several direct pedestrian connections between the exchange and the station, as well as connections between the exchange and adjacencies.
(iii) Landscape design at grade level
(c) New hoop trusses and extension of the platform roof at the west end
(d) Design to provide for faregates and equipment implementation
(e) Replacing mesh panels with glazing at platform level of existing Metrotown Station

The cost review recommend a complete shutdown of Metrotown station to decrease construction. An option considered for this is to build a temporary "Metrotown East" station at the current pocket track area. Other options include modification of bus routes and temporary bus bridge.

[tiger_handheld]

what I would do:

shut down the station

have 4 99 b line busses operating as a bus bridge from Patterson
have 2 99 b line busses operating as a bus bridge from Royal Oak
have car 2 go / modo / car coop cars at Patterson / Royal Oak

Free rides from Royal Oak to Patterson (can be done with Compass card) to subsidize the extra walking / commute.

[Not really racist!]

One thing I have to agree with is that the Metrotown station is long overdue for an upgrade.... it gets pretty chaotic having that one entrance and one exit

[Tapioca]

They should just shut the station down and make people walk, or at the very most, set up a bus bridge. Part of the reason why the province created Translink was so that sound, but politically unpopular decisions could be made without opposition from the frothing mouths of the public.

15 months of inconvenience for 20 years of improved service. Sounds like a pretty good trade-off to me.
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[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

15 months of inconvenience for 20 years of improved service. Sounds like a pretty good trade-off to me.
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What you forget is most people in Vancouver are selfish and couldn't give two fucks about benefits in the future if it inconveniences them today.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

They should just shut the station down and make people walk, or at the very most, set up a bus bridge. Part of the reason why the province created Translink was so that sound, but politically unpopular decisions could be made without opposition from the frothing mouths of the public.

15 months of inconvenience for 20 years of improved service. Sounds like a pretty good trade-off to me.
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You also have to think about tons and tons of people get off at Metro station to take other buses. There is no49, 130 (Goes to BCIT, HASTING), 430(goes to richmond), 144(SFU), 106 (New West) just to name a few and these are very very popular buses.

Not to mention what about people with disability who lives near Metrotown and needs to use the skytrain.

Have you been to the New West station when they shut it down(at least shut down partway) so new bus loop, apartments and shopping centers can be built around it? It was chaos and New West is not as big as a station as Metro so I expect this to be worse.

What tgill pointed out I don't think it will work, there is simply too many passenger and during rush hour it will slow the heck of the whole system down.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by melloman

My issue is the same as Graeme's... How the fuck can you find it CHEAPER and QUICKER to build a temporary station..

Cheapest solution is to close Metrotown and tell everybody to fucking walk from Patterson. Which would have MASSIVE backlash from the public.

first thing that came to mind was to just walk from patterson.


second would be to phase the construction to allow partial access like they did at broadway/commercial a while back?

[Graeme S]

As they mentioned; shutdown, 15 months. Phased, 28 months. That's almost double the time.

[Phozy]

Man fuck translink. Major delays right now.

Getting shittier and shittier by the day.
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