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Old 01-28-2012, 10:57 AM   #1
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Dealing with ICBC's Total Loss Department. Help.

Here's my situation. Hopefully someone can suggest other ways to deal with it. I'm aware that my claim can still be discussed for another 2 years. My only goal is to be reimbursed close to what I paid for. No lawyers have been involved yet.

Bought a used 2005 Jeep from a dealership for $17,000, paid just under $20,000 after taxes. 12 days later got into a collision with another Jeep, the other driver was deemed at fault by ICBC & witnesses.

Both my airbags (driver & passenger) went off and the front end driver side corner was punched in but was still drivable and drove home. Apparently its illegal to drive with activated airbags... did not know at the time.

I called 911 asking for a police officer to come and do a police report. They never showed & was told to just contact Dial-A-Claim after my 3rd attempt at an officer request.

The next day, dropped my Jeep (yes drove it down myself, despite airbags hanging out) off at Carter Dodge Body shop off Tupper in Coquitlam, across from the claim center.

Got a call 3 days later saying Jeep sustained $16,000 damage and was written off. $4G per airbag x2 + $8,000 structural damage.

Got a call from the Total Loss Dept and their best offer was $13,500 +HST.

They sent me the Autosource report. The report averaged out a total of 10 vehicles to come up with their result minus 4% from the total for their "best offer", but only showed 6 vehicles with costs & details included. I asked about the other 4 missing vehicles and TLD had no idea. They asked me to collect ad's myself and submit what I found.

I collected all the ads for similar vehicle from buysell, driving.bc, autotrader, craigslist and kijiji all within the province of BC. Contacted all the sellers both dealership and private sellers to confirm each advertisement.

I did the calculations and averaged each vehicle just like the Autosource report. Grouped all the ads closest to my vehicle and another within the MetroVancouver area. I also included the invoice to my vehicle which was purchased 12 days prior to the accident. Then submitted that to the Total Loss Dept. The average cost of all the vehicles used came to around $17,587 +HST = $19,697

Got a call back a few days later and was told that only vehicles within the MetroVancouver area qualified, because we live & work within that area and in the end; NONE of the ads were used. W.T.F!

Their reasoning why the ad's weren't used because it had a higher engine size, a 5.7 HEMI. My jeep had a 4.7L. The Autosource report used a typical vehicle with a 5.7L engine that was compared against my own vehicle, but with -$95 for the engine size for auto adjustments.

Instead they used my original invoice for the 2005 Jeep -10% due to use and wear. Its only 12 days old.

This has been on going for a month now and today picked up my chq and signed off on the vehicle. It's the only document I've signed for ICBC regarding this claim which has for the most part been via telephone.

Next week I plan on going to ICBC in North Van and filing a complaint with customer relations for how my claim was handled and if nothing comes with that then dealing with the Fairness Commissioner.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #2
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I personally wouldn't sign off the vehicle to ICBC if I wasn't happy with the claim amount. Your signature is the agreement that the vehicle value has been agreed on and transfers the property to ICBC.

The fact that you paid $17,000 for the Jeep doesn't set market value for the vehicle. It was what you thought the car was worth. Imagine if you paid $20,000 for the jeep, ICBC would still pay you $13,500.
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:19 AM   #3
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yea I think its too late now since you got the CHECK and SIGNED it...
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Old 01-28-2012, 11:29 AM   #4
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I went through the same thing last year. My 2008 GTI was vandalized on the night of the riots.

Original damage estimate was $5200. Somehow the completed repair was $14000. I demanded the car be written off as it was very close to the write-off threshold.

They produced an Autosource report that said an '08 GTI is worth $25k. I had my car listed for $21k for 2 months prior to the incident and it wouldn't sell. Provided proof of advertisements on Craigslist/Buy & Sell & Autotrader.

They stuck with their $25k valuation which was totally unfair. I work in the dealership industry and know that actual transaction prices for used cars are far below the orignal asking price a dealership will put up. As well, I had actual sales of '08 GTI's from within our group that supported my valuation. They claimed the difference in market value was a result of "seasonality". I didn't realize cars can appreciate in value $4-5k depending on the season. FYI I had listed the vehicle from April-June.

Was forced to take the car back and after 4 months of people walking away from the car because of the huge claim, I finally sold it for $15k.

I went to the North Van office and filed a complaint providing all my documentation. They reasoned that their Autosource valuation was more accurate. It's a complete fucking joke.

I will be filing a complaint with the ICBC Fairness Commissioner next. However, my case also has issues with how the estimator handled my case:

1. Inaccurate damage estimate ($5200 vs $14000)
2. Failure to respond to phone calls inquiring about the rise in damage value (over a two week period)
3. My estimator was a former employee of the body shop that I had taken my vehicle to, which I feel is an enormous conflict of interest.

Best of luck trying to fight ICBC. They are a heavy-handed and unreasonable organization. It shouldn't take a lawyer for the average citizen to be treated fairly.

And my advice to anyone... even if you are in a not-at-fault insurance claim and ICBC is bending over backwards for you... be careful. They are NOT looking out for you.

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Old 01-28-2012, 11:59 AM   #5
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icbc is total bull lol my car was written off, and before i had it written off i had gotten a hit n run from someone and i took the car to AK autoworks, they said itll cost me roughly 850$ to fix the dent. So im like ok sounds reasonable, but i never got it fixed. So then when i got into the accident and icbc took damage off for the dent, they said the repair cost was 2000$ + and even tho i argued that i took the car to an icbc-approved facility (AK) they wouldnt budge.

Good luck getting anywhere near what you paid for it. But i must say keep looking for ads if you haven't signed the papers yet. And you need to look for something like your car. so if yours is a 4.7 dont send them a 5.7
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Old 01-28-2012, 01:31 PM   #6
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This is why all of you should have a got a lawyer to help you out. Anytime I dealt with ICBC i always had my lawyer to represent me. The one time I got rear ended I was offered a very small amount but when I got my lawyer involved everything changed. If you deal with them yourself they will take advantage of that.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:02 PM   #7
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hmm thanks everyone.

The only form I signed was a Salvage Release form. It does not relate to agreeing or accepting the settlement amount of said vehicle.
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Old 01-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XplicitLuder View Post
icbc is total bull lol my car was written off, and before i had it written off i had gotten a hit n run from someone and i took the car to AK autoworks, they said itll cost me roughly 850$ to fix the dent. So im like ok sounds reasonable, but i never got it fixed. So then when i got into the accident and icbc took damage off for the dent, they said the repair cost was 2000$ + and even tho i argued that i took the car to an icbc-approved facility (AK) they wouldnt budge.

Good luck getting anywhere near what you paid for it. But i must say keep looking for ads if you haven't signed the papers yet. And you need to look for something like your car. so if yours is a 4.7 dont send them a 5.7
But 4 out of the 6 vehicles used in the Autosource report were of a 5.7. They just adjusted the cost minus $95 for the bigger engine.

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Old 01-28-2012, 02:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82 View Post
This is why all of you should have a got a lawyer to help you out. Anytime I dealt with ICBC i always had my lawyer to represent me. The one time I got rear ended I was offered a very small amount but when I got my lawyer involved everything changed. If you deal with them yourself they will take advantage of that.

not everyone can afford a lawyer. the op is trying to get more for his car so unless he found a probono lawyer he wouldve ended up spending all the extra money he got on paying the lawyer.

on the other hand you should never sign off and take a cheque if you dont think it is fair. now that you have the case is closed and you can complain all u want but in the end an apology is all that will come. apologies mean a lot but not from icbc. good luck on finding another vehicle but i would totally buy one privately to save the most money possible.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:23 PM   #10
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Lawyers won't help in determining the value of the vehicle other than the intimidation factor. The fact is ICBC hasn't violated any procedures.



Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82 View Post
This is why all of you should have a got a lawyer to help you out. Anytime I dealt with ICBC i always had my lawyer to represent me. The one time I got rear ended I was offered a very small amount but when I got my lawyer involved everything changed. If you deal with them yourself they will take advantage of that.
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Old 01-28-2012, 04:38 PM   #11
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I got paid $19,000 for a car I paid $12000 for (bought in U.S. for a deal, but still.........) and I was nervous I would only get the $12k back so I can't complain................... but I think that it had something to do with the fact it was a head-on collision writeoff and I wasn't claiming ANY injuries (I flat out wasn't hurt and I'm an honest guy... so I wasn't going to spend years faking it like some losers do), I think they wanted me out of there before I changed my mind so maybe they were just generous to me because of that?!

That said, my experiences with ICBC have never ever ever ever been positive even when they do work out... so horrible to talk to them about anything... they're always looking for a way to screw you over and use your words against you!
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:07 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by schw4 View Post
I did the calculations and averaged each vehicle just like the Autosource report. Grouped all the ads closest to my vehicle and another within the MetroVancouver area. I also included the invoice to my vehicle which was purchased 12 days prior to the accident. Then submitted that to the Total Loss Dept. The average cost of all the vehicles used came to around $17,587 +HST = $19,697
There is not a single 2005 Jeep currently listed on Craigslist for above $17,500.
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Old 01-28-2012, 05:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
There is not a single 2005 Jeep currently listed on Craigslist for above $17,500.
Craigslist Search Results

Autotrader Search Results


Buy & Sell Search Results

Check mate.

My window to find vehicles was from Dec - Mid Jan.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:44 AM   #14
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I think once you accept the cheque you accept the payment amount. You never take the first amount ICBC offers you. They know most people need the money to go buy a new vehicle.
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schw4 View Post
Craigslist Search Results

Autotrader Search Results


Buy & Sell Search Results

Check mate.

My window to find vehicles was from Dec - Mid Jan.
A single Jeep with a bigger engine and a navigation system listing for just barely the amount you want to get can't really be considered 'check mate'
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:32 PM   #16
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I think once you accept the cheque you accept the payment amount. You never take the first amount ICBC offers you. They know most people need the money to go buy a new vehicle.
Not true... I just dealt with this same situation and my adjuster offered payment many times before I signed the release form if I ever needed the money. She stated repeatedly that accepting the $ doesn't mean the case is closed, it would just be part of a payout that you and ICBC ultimately agree to.

OP's situation is unfortunate, but you really don't have a leg to stand on without seeking professional assistance. I spent 2 months arguing with ICBC over my total loss. First the adjuster (who has no power), then the claims manager, then finally the manager of centralized estimating.

Long story short, they gave me $400 value on $5k of upgrades (I know ICBC doesn't care about this but it's a sham nonetheless), and came down from $2500 to buy the car back for parts to $800. But they never budged on the value of the vehicle itself.

Before you say I spent $5k on useless crap like big wheels and stereo, this was outside of that. I upgraded to from OEM 2 piston to 4 piston supra tt calipers, cross drilled rotors/performance pads, backup sensors/camera, side marker mirrors, stronger suspension, etc. that were all improvements over OEM, and would have normally added value to the car had it been an option for the vehicle at the time. Just the fact that it's not OEM made my upgrades worthless.

I also sympathize with Roach's experience about his car valuation and difficulty talking to anyone of use. They utilize two sets of 'values' to assess claims in their favour, and if you want to talk to someone other than the front line, they basically do not exist. It took me 2 weeks and repeated voicemails and wholesale harassment of the poor adjuster assigned to me to finally speak with a complete jerk of a claims manager - or rather, be spoken at, since he really didn't even listen to anything I had to say about the claim.

TL;DR - I got fucked too. OP and Roach did too. Boo ICBC.
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Old 02-04-2012, 02:51 PM   #17
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Time to lawyer the fuck up, no joke. Icbc will fucking dick you around cuz they got the resources to. Claim injury while youre at it too if they keep trying to give u the runaround.

Lastly contact ombudsperson, they will help you deal with icbc About the BC Ombudsperson
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