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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
i think they should further scrutinize that statistic...
it could be that we have more lax in class and graduation policies that yield more students with degrees that doesn't necessarily mean we are more educated - it could just mean we had an "easier" life in university when compared to ones abroad.
I appreciate where you're coming from, yet not all degrees are created equal. Plus some countries it is much easier to obtain a degree illegitimately. We cannot accredit all degrees worldwide, so some will have more hoops to jump through.
There are ways to accredit your credentials prior to immigrating, and requiring people to recertify is a good thing for Canadians to know we're getting the same quality we're used to from people educated in Canada.
The hardship of affording to go back to school while establish yourself here is part of immigrating. If you aren't willing to put in that time/effort/money, then perhaps our immigration system let you down by allowing you to immigrate here in the first place. This is why the Conservatives are tightening immigration.
As for milking immigrants - I've posted this several times: Canadians are subsidizing immigrants as they only provide ~80% of the cost to our society. There's lots of studies on this. Thus why the Conservatives are reforming immigration to cut that 20% loss.
yea I hear ya on degree certification, and off course people's diplomas from other countries shouldn't be fully certified to be exactly equivalent to Canadian standards because they're not, and that's what I meant when I mentioned in my post about Canada fully embracing everyone's diploma from another country, it needs to be carefully BUT fairly examined..
But they don't seem to realize there are places in this world where schooling exceeds the Canadian standard, and this isn't recognized at all.
This is where the government really needs to take a better look and be more fair in this process, some of the people in my community I mentioned they did their schooling in some of the top universities all over Europe, countries like Germany and Switzerland, but the way the system here treated them was like they were third world country immigrants who moved here straight from some village with a piece of paper that said diploma on it.
I'm not naive, I mean immigration is a business for Canada literally, government wants a return on their investment, but the way it's setup they want that shit unfairly, it's worse than owing the mob for fcks sake.
All government is doing is cutting their losses, they understand now they may have gotten a little over their head with the whole "come on over to Canada" thing and are starting to realize it's turning to be not a 100% beneficial to them so they're "subsidizing" and I understand it, because truth is immigrants ARE starting to put a strain on our Canadian living standards and something does need to be done, that's where this subsidy process has come into place.
And I've seen this work first hand, just one example I have a friend from the Asian community whose aunt just emigrated, along with her husband and kids, and grandparents... so there was a slight issue with the grandparents, and after a while it turned out they were to be sent back, they weren't accepted (welcomed) here, way immigration office saw it grandparents are retired, wont work and will only put a strain on the health care system, it's a business decision I understand...
But my personal views are always on the humane side of things and not the business side, so this bothers me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
Do your eally want a doctor who bought his degree fom elsewhere came to Canada without any schooling from Canada and just accept him as a doctor? Sorry no we need to make sure ppl are ready to work under Canada Standards. Is part of immigrantions.
No, but what you said is exactly what I meant in the part of my post where I specifically said I Canada shouldn't fully recognize a diploma from another country, I guess you misunderstood that part of my post.
But the way it's set up, you basically literally almost have to redo ALL of your schooling, so it's like starting from scratch, tell me which immigrant wants to damn near redo their whole degree at a critical time in your life where every ounce of your energy and attention needs to be focused on food on the table....
and that's the problem there, but I'm not naive whatsoever, and I understand the bare bones of it is Canada is giving you a peaceful nice place to live obviously they want something back, but when that something exceeds what every normal Canadian citizen is already giving, then the system is just not fair simply put.
I don't know how many times here my dad has come across guys in his field of work who were born here, went to university here and all that, and they can't do basic math on the job site, or they can't figure out something simple in their head.
I mean me personally last year I did a bit of work for this company for a few months and they ended up having me replace a guy who spent 2 years at SFU with a full blown degree, because I did his job better than him, and I had no schooling for it at all.... and in my head I'm thinking I know a dozen people off the top of my head that are even better than me at this job, but they'll never even be looked at let alone hired because their diplomas here are considered pieces of paper.
I love this country and it's people, but gotdang where is the fuckin equality I was promised, if I can't get it in Canada then where do I go.
__________________ (oO:::\___/:::Oo) (DPE-wheels) // Satin Cocaine White
It's really sad that 80% (my own figure) of all post-secondary degrees are useless...
no degree is useless, as it shows an ability and willingness to learn (what you get your degree in does not mean much anymore)
having said that, just getting a degree is step 1, ppl who think they have a BCom or BA and that they deserve to drive a BMW and live downtown are very foolish (or funded by their parents)
sadly, to make a great living (all else equal, that is, no 'luck' in getting an amazing opportunity), you need to keep being in an educational program until one's mid 20's
no degree is useless, as it shows an ability and willingness to learn (what you get your degree in does not mean much anymore)
having said that, just getting a degree is step 1, ppl who think they have a BCom or BA and that they deserve to drive a BMW and live downtown are very foolish (or funded by their parents)
sadly, to make a great living (all else equal, that is, no 'luck' in getting an amazing opportunity), you need to keep being in an educational program until one's mid 20's
In my opinion a degree doesn't show anything. It is not hard to get a degree at all.
Unless the degree is an engineering degree, trades degree, or a specialized degree the rest are useless.
Think about it. How many of your friends that have degrees use their degree at work?
And yes, there are a small fraction of those with bachelors that get jobs, but those are the lucky ones or the ones who are top 1%. The majority of people with a bachelors = waste of $25K (at least)
I honestly wished I had proper guidance when I was younger. The counsellors in high school are completely USELESS!
And I think a lot of the blame falls on parents as well. A lot of them expect their children to continue their education and just throw them somewhere into the post-secondary system. I understand the need to be educated, but to force your child into a degree that will be utterly useless?
In my opinion a degree doesn't show anything. It is not hard to get a degree at all.
Unless the degree is an engineering degree, trades degree, or a specialized degree the rest are useless.
Think about it. How many of your friends that have degrees use their degree at work?
And yes, there are a small fraction of those with bachelors that get jobs, but those are the lucky ones or the ones who are top 1%. The majority of people with a bachelors = waste of $25K (at least)
I honestly wished I had proper guidance when I was younger. The counsellors in high school are completely USELESS!
And I think a lot of the blame falls on parents as well. A lot of them expect their children to continue their education and just throw them somewhere into the post-secondary system. I understand the need to be educated, but to force your child into a degree that will be utterly useless?
we'll have to agree to disagree - maybe people you know who provide an example needed to grow up - i know ppl who have done nothing with their life post university graduation - their fault, not their education. i know a lot of people who finish with a degree in one field, and then go and get a relatively entry level position in finance or something else and work their way up - thing is, university degree is a required minimum for almost EVERY job out there
i guess it all comes down to the person - I have a BA, i do really well for myself because i kept on going and going and going and i'm still not done my education (more through choice than anything) - i won't be done when I'm 30
BA, BComm, whatever it is, is the beginning, not the end, i guess that's what I"m saying, so it doesn't matter what you get at the B level, as you'll be adding something specialized ontop of that
Do your eally want a doctor who bought his degree fom elsewhere came to Canada without any schooling from Canada and just accept him as a doctor? Sorry no we need to make sure ppl are ready to work under Canada Standards. Is part of immigrantions.
no of course not, its important to have standards but i think there needs to be a better system in place to put immigrants in jobs where they can be best used, because right now there isn't one for most professions and where there is, it clearly isn't functioning very well
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypediss
"pct with post secondary education"
i think they should further scrutinize that statistic...
it could be that we have more lax in class and graduation policies that yield more students with degrees that doesn't necessarily mean we are more educated - it could just mean we had an "easier" life in university when compared to ones abroad.
just my 0.02
this. i've always wondered what the international governing body is for regulating the quality of university/college graduates... the prestigious schools, yes it can be assumed their graduates are of good quality, but UBC? SFU? what standards are they adhering to when they churn out these degrees?
this. i've always wondered what the international governing body is for regulating the quality of university/college graduates... the prestigious schools, yes it can be assumed their graduates are of good quality, but UBC? SFU? what standards are they adhering to when they churn out these degrees?
A university isn't able to generically add degree programs and courses without scrutiny, they are regulated by BCEQA.
Generally speaking, I would consider any of the local universities to provide a very good quality education at the undergraduate level. A basic comparison using UBC as a benchmark, since it's currently ranked twenty-two among universities world wide: many local professors also do not teach exclusively at a single university, I've taken courses from the same professor at UBC and Kwantlen; the institution, degree programs and courses are held to the same standards by BCEQA; the content of the majority of undergraduate courses is entirely transferable to any other BC university. Once you reach graduate degree level, it's fair to say a school like Kwantlen would not be comparable to UBC, because research is not a priority at the smaller institutions.
hmm yes but that's within BC... what about a degree from University of Afghanistan or something, theoretically couldn't U of Afghan just hand out degrees to students that don't deserve them?
since there is no international body that regulates the quality of a university grad from country to country, isn't it possible that its just easier to earn a degree in certain countries?
hmm yes but that's within BC... what about a degree from University of Afghanistan or something, theoretically couldn't U of Afghan just hand out degrees to students that don't deserve them?
since there is no international body that regulates the quality of a university grad from country to country, isn't it possible that its just easier to earn a degree in certain countries?
That's the stumbling point on recognizing degrees from foreign countries.
If I could do any degree, it would be a DVM (veterinarian), but there are only fifteen spaces available per year in British Columbia. For that reason, it's very common for prospective vet students to pursue degrees abroad in Australia and the UK. I was speaking to another person who wants to become a veterinarian recently, she applied to a school that is a combination MD-DVM program in the Caribbean. There are schools all over the world that are complete shams.
The scale of the bureaucracy required to maintain a international regulatory body for universities would be mind boggling unfortunately, just the number of languages that would need to be spoken alone. I really think the best method of recognizing degrees from foreign universities is to allow those who hold them to challenge domestic programs and earn a Canadian degree.
Having a degree does not mean a person is educated. This is why just because you have a degree does not mean you "deserve" a good job or whatever else you think you deserve (this is just fluff to get you to pay the big bucks to go to their school ).
Although I'm a big proponent of formal education (there's a lot of good that can come from it), some of the dumbest people I've met in my life were college students/grads (ie. people who think their degree is the ticket to the good life ). At the same time, some of the smartest and some of the wealthiest people I know have very little (if any) formal education.
There is a lot of politics and profiteering in the education system but IMO it's just like any other political system that we have to deal with in life. The people who own and control the education system have their objectives (ie. to profit financially, social engineering,etc.) and it is our responsibility to do our best to understand and to work with/around it.
My view of the education system is very similar to my view on our monetary system. Our monetary system (central banking, fractional-reserve banking, fiat currencies) is designed to turn us into slaves-for the benefit of the few who own and control the system. In other words, the monetary system is a very sophisticated form of neo-fudalism. But the thing is, we as individuals can do very little about it. The best use of our time is to understand the system and then work around it (or if you're amoral, you can profit from it). There are many ways to do this but I digress.
The education system is very much like the monetary system. Its objective is to serve the people who own and control society... that is, the 1%. And this only makes sense because they, the 1%, are only doing what is natural to them, that is to protect and increase their power. They (through the education system) do this by producing compliant little workers (re: slaves) who will spend their entire lives enriching the masters for a pittance. And when you are no longer useful to them, you will be summarily discarded (re: it's time for you to retire!).
But getting back to the point. Because we live within this system, it is much easier to reach your objectives if you've "paid your dues." That is, to have gone through college. As long as you understand that you are just "paying your dues" and not fall victim to their propaganda (re:"you deserve a good job/life if you have a degree) then you will do fine. However, if you're like most people (re: suckers) then you will be a miserable slave for the rest of your life.
In my opinion a degree doesn't show anything. It is not hard to get a degree at all.
I agree with this. Post secondary has been dumbed down so much to maximize profits by pushing more kids through the system. Take a look at exams from a couple decades ago, so much harder.
My mother told me I received my degree the first day of school, I just had to wait 4 years for them to give it to me. She's a former teacher, kinda discouraging to hear her tell it like it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mx703
Unless the degree is an engineering degree, trades degree, or a specialized degree the rest are useless.
Think about it. How many of your friends that have degrees use their degree at work?
I have an engineering degree and use very little if anything of what I learned at work.
There's lots great programs, and lots of useless people with specialized degrees too.
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