Two of the same things.

No itsnot

somewhat related sorta


china russia just vetoed the UN resolution against Syria

BBC News - Russia and China veto resolution on Syria at UN


as they'll veto any major moves against Iran (there's been major moves to secure oil around the world and the USA has made a lot of grabs, China isnt about to let its energy security go in Iran)


that's probably why there's all this talk of Israel attacking Iran because they dont listen to the UN and Obama isn't about to bypass the UN and do something against Iran

If anything war will happen after the summer Olympics 2012 in London.

With false bombing activity in London blaming the Iranians to start WW3...

^^^ they've already said that Iran was freeing Al-Qaeda agents from prison so as to attack Israel and the USA


Why did Iran jail them anyway then? :suspicious:

The people directing Israel's foreign policy are psychopaths and warmongers. They care nothing about the consequences of going to war. They don't care about killing innocent civilians (as evidenced by their continual apartheid policies in the occupied territories). Zionists like Natenyahu care only about increasing their power and control over surrounding territories (as evidenced by their repeated attempts at occupying Southern Lebanon). These warmongers don't even care about their own people. We know this because military/political strategists from around the world, including those from Mossad (Israel's equivalent of the CIA) have repeatedly warned that Israel's extremely aggressive stance towards her neighbours is destabilizing the region and is only making Israel less safe.

But this is exactly what the hawks in Israel and the United States want because the more unstable the region gets, the more power they accumulate. Also, their buddies in the arms industry get to rake in billions from taxpayers like yourself.

People must understand that Iran poses no threat to anybody and they certainly have no nuclear weapons (think, when was the last time they attacked anybody? It's the United States and Israel that are starting all the wars). The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) asserts that there is no evidence of Iran having nuclear capability. Even the United States' Secretary of Defence, Leon Panetta says Iran has no nuclear capability.

The mainstream press has been paid to beat the war drums because the military hawks, the Israeli Lobby, and the arms manufactures want to pull the United States into a war with Iran just like they did with Iraq.

The world was duped into a 10-year-3-trillion-dollar war with Iraq by these scumbags. Are we going to let them do it again? As the old saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Everything being told is a conspiracy but what are the Americans after anyways? Oil/Gas is what they are after, why would a small country mess with the U.S. knowing they are one of the most armed and powerful country in the world. :fulloffuck:

Explain to me how the persecution/discrimination of another human being is any different from the persecution/discrimination of a person of jewish decent.

say what you want to say, but as Canadians we owe allot to the USA foreign policies to live the life we live in Canada. I think the americans are bullies, but they are the bullies for democracy and freedom......that's why NA is so successful and the middle east is messed up.

Dumbass.

1. Israel left southern lebanon in 2000 and does not intend to ever occupy it again. The war in 2006 was a result of Hezbollah attacking Israel and kidnapping two soldiers. It did not conquer nor occupy any land in that conflict.

2. The point is to stop Iran before it gets nuclear weapons. As to your IAEA claim, its half truth. You're making it appear as if Iran has been fully cleared by the agency and there are no problems, which couldn't be further from the truth. The IAEA released a report recently stating that Iran is on a path to building a nuclear weapon. The report was released in November, you can go read it. Of course in light of this new and true evidence you're probably going to cry about how the IAEA is a zionist conspiracy.

3. Really? Israel wants an unstable middle east? The entire country almost shat bricks when the unrest in Egypt started because of what that could mean to the peace treaty. Same applies to Jordan. Before the Arab spring there was an equilibrium in the region. Matters slipped occasionally, but for the most part, everyone was doing their own thing. Now, who fucking knows what's going to happen.

Last point: This one is for StylinRed and it kinda ties to your point. If you look at my posts in an Iran thread from about two years ago, I stated that I was told by an Israeli official that a lot of Arab countries are in consensus with Israel in regards to Iran attaining a nuclear bomb. That they're shitting bricks and do not want Iran to continue it's nuclear program. StylinRed, being the usual idiot that he is, dismissed my claims. A year ago, the US embassy wires were released. Revealed in these wires is the intense hatred that many Arab countries feel for Iran, as well as their fear of its nuclear program. Arab states scorn 'evil' Iran | World news | The Guardian is one source, but go look up the original wires if you want to. So essentially, its not really just Israel and the U.S. that feel this way about Iran, its Arab countries as well. Also, Europe recently imposed its toughest sanctions yet on Iran, what's up with that?


I could go on, but those are the points I want to make for the time being. Stop talking out of your ass man, its not a good look.

the iaea report was reiterating claims from like 5 years ago which had already been dismissed and refuted, there was nothing new in there

dismissed your claims that they were untrue? well they still are... Iran isn't anywhere close to a nuclear bomb and they have the right under law to attain and use nuclear energy

dismissed Saudi Arabias support of Israel against Iran? I dont see why I would dismiss that... Saudi Arabia is pox on the area (worse than Israel because Israel just wants to protect, control, and capture a tiny plot of land) and they've long been against shia muslims... look @ what they did in Bahrain... they went in there and demolished its Arab Spring brutally (shia Bahrainis that are supported by Iranians)

they also want to keep a clamp on being the sole power/provider of oil or be in control of the nations which have oil; that's why they supported going into Libya and why they're supporting anti Iranian paths


but i dont know why you keep joining in these talks because you support the killing and oppression of palestinians (someone who supports that isn't capable of seeking peace only war so your arguments are skewed) just keep lurking it suits you

Yes, it is antisemitic. Anti-semite is not a verb, the word you should have chosen is anti-semitic. No, I am not a mindless follower who needs to wake up.

It's entirely valid to not agree with Israels policies, but to refer to the country as a group of Christ killers is not. It's no different than if I were to refer to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq or Egypt as a group of sand niggers, while voicing opposition to their policies.

Lol, this made my Saturday morning. I will continue lurking Stylinred because I have a real life to attend to. Enjoy the rest of your weekend bud, even though I know you'll spend it alone, on the internet :)

both these seem to work in response

:QQ:


&

:alonehappy:

anti-semite i am not... i am not against jews... i am not against anyone.. i am not a racist.

i don't agree with the state of Isreal and the way they don't have to be held accountable for ANY of their actions.. as in settlements in the west bank and all over Palestine. Isreal is a well militarized country who is capable of defending themselves and the shit they get themselves into. WE DON"T NEED TO BE IN ANOTHER CONFLICT. fuckit..

if they don't vote in RON PAUL in the USA.. send him here.. ill vote for him..

The same shit they were saying about Iraq is the same shit they are saying about IRAN.. its LIES. Stay the fuck out of Iran and deal with the real problem... Isreal.

^That's a much better articulation of your views.

I'm pretty passive in my opinions regarding middle east politics, my knowledge reflects that, but I feel like weighing in.

I don't believe the Israeli people have any desire for continued conflict with their neighbors, the jewish people have been at war for millenia and want nothing more than a jewish state; no different than the Vatican or Islamic republics. They only issue I have with Israel is their continued building of settlements and occupation of Palestine, which is a view shared by pretty much everyone except American Republicans and Israel itself. The neighboring countries and groups, Hezbollah and Iran notably, refusing to acknowledge the right for Israel to exist is a larger force in preventing peace than anything else. There's wrong being done on both sides of the conflict.

Regarding Israel and the Iraq war, with the possible exception of a bit of flawed intelligence from the mossad, I don't think they have anything to do with it. The war in Iraq is as American as apple pie, baseball, conjecture and partisanship. Whether it be manifest destiny, revolutionary war, civil war, Vietnam, cold war, Iraq v.1 with Bush v.1 or Iraq v.2 with Bush v.2, the continued embargo against Cuba, obscene presence in South Korea and other foreign countries around the world, they are a war mongering, nation building group of lemmings. Iraq v.1 and v.2 were just a continuation and reflection of that policy and if the mossad provided faulty intelligence that's an expected mistake of the field that America used as an excuse.

Calling others names sure adds weight to your argument. Classy. :D

Here is Paul Craig Roberts, former Reagan official and co-founder of "Reaganomics" on the US-Isreali stance on Iran. In this interview, Roberts explains that attacking Iran has been on the agenda of the Neocons (US) and Israeli hawks for years (this explains that their new-found "concern" of Iran "getting nukes" is just another ploy to go to war-just like how Iraq had "nukes") . He also reiterates my point about the IAEA having no evidence whatsoever of Iran having nuclear capability. But of course, we should take your word over the founder of Reganomics.


Here is Joseph Cirincione on the matter. He is a contributing writer to Foreign Affairs, which is one of the most important journals on American foreign policy and is also a member of the Council On Foreign Relations.

In this interview he clearly states that there is unanimous agreement among the United States' intelligence agencies that Iran has no nuclear capability and that they HAVEN'T EVEN MADE THE DECISION to start one.

In addition, EVEN IF Iran decides to go ahead with a nuclear program, it would take them YEARS to do it. And EVEN IF Iran goes ahead with it, the US would know almost IMMEDIATELY because they would be able to track their progress.

Cirinione further elucidates the fact that what the people in the Middle East are concerned about is not just some future-imaginary-nuclear-threat from Iran but nuclear capability IN GENERAL-INCLUDING those possessed by the only nuclear power in the region, Israel.

Cirinione also goes into detail about how even the Israeli's themselves don't want to go to war with Iran and about the dissent coming from Israel's own military and intelligence community.

But of course, we should take your word over Cirinone's because he's only a non-proliferation specialist and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations.


Finally here is George Galloway, a long-time serving Member of the British Parliament discussing the continuous invasions and occupations of Lebanon by Israel.

While you (and the likes of FOX NEWS) ceaselessly bring up the oft-cited factoid of Hezbollah capturing TWO Israeli soldiers, Galloway reminds the world that Israel has illegal kidnapped and imprisoned THOUSANDS of Lebanese (but conveniently, this is almost never cited by FOX NEWS & co.)

Furthermore, Galloway discusses the DECADES OF RELENTLESS AND CONTINUOUS INVASIONS AND OCCUPATIONS of Lebanon by Israel. And people wonder why Israel's neighbours and most of the international community (with the glaring exception of the US) have such contempt for Israel.

And to your point of Israel "leaving" Lebanon after their FAILED INVASION, they never did leave. As explained by Galloway, Israel has continued to occupy Lebanese territory long after their 2000 fiasco.

But again, who cares what a former British MP has to say about the matter, you have "sources" from Israel!


Finally, regarding your assertion that the Arab world "shitting bricks" over Iran. That's got to be one of the most pathetic "assertions" I've ever heard. Do you even know any Middle Eastern history? Do you know why the Arab League is currently backstabbing Syria? It's because most of the autocrats in the Middle East (the House of Saud for instance) are puppet governments of the United States. They remain in power because they have the backing of the United States military. It is in their interest to go along with their "master."

Furthermore, most of the Middle East are Sunni Muslim (Saudi Arabia for example) whereas Iran is predominately Shia Muslim and the Sunni arabs are "shitting bricks" because it is in their interest to keep the Shia's at bay. What's more disturbing (to the Sunni's) is that since Bush's catastrophic war in Iraq, Shia's now have control over Iraq. And naturally the Shia's in Iraq are aligned with the Shia's in Iran. Additionally, the oil rich regions of Saudi Arabia are populated predominately by Shia Muslims. The Saudi autocrats naturally fear the growing powers of a rising Shia awakening in the Middle East, and with Iran being the centre of Shia influence, they (Saudi & co.) will do almost anything to pull the rug under them.

One last point regarding your assertion for the need for a PREEMPTIVE WAR against Iran because they MIGHT get a nuclear weapon: This is the exact kind of Nazi-logic that got the world into a 10-year-3-trillion-dollar war with Iraq-leaving hundreds of thousands of innocent dead. According to your Nazi-logic, the US and Israel CAN INVADE ANY country it wishes to. All it has to do is to CLAIM that country X MIGHT start a WMDs program. I do not condone preemptive war based on speculation and cannot comprehend Nazi-logic so I will rest my case here.

But alas, you have "sources" from inside Israel itself! :D

Just got lawyered LIKEABOSS

And how quick do we forget who is also in charge of Iran.... Give this man nuclear weapons and I can guarantee he will use it without any hesitation. This was from over 3 years ago on national TV!
And him how the holocast could have not happend...

No leader in the world is truly crazy nor is there one who would freely use nuclear weapons (except for Americans); hell not even the North Korean leaders who have been painted as the craziest fucks in the world used their nukes; even the most ruthless leaders in the world like Israel, haven't used their nukes and these are leaders who evicted people from their own homes and country simply so someone of their own religion could live in there (the same people who experienced what that feels like at the hands of the Nazis)...

but

you're bypassing the facts and shooting straight to and propping up the propaganda that Iran is getting a nuclear weapon... which so far is absolutely not true...





this is the same bs that happens time and again America wants to attack someone and you get the media/entertainment industry making their target seem evil & crazy... they did it with the British, Germans, Commies, North Koreans, Cubans, Venezuelans, Iraqis, Libyans, Iranians, Mexicans, etc, etc and people eat that shit up! most because they don't know better and others because they know whats going on but they support the actions so they perpetuate it






as for your other remark thats a completely other argument and really has more to do with thumbing his nose @ western hypocrisy for denying a discussion and even jailing prominent historians over it

^^
Every country uses that exact same tactics of making their target seem evil and crazy, not just the Americans. You honestly believe the Iranian people aren't brainwashed into thinking the same thing Ahmadinejad wants them to think. Same goes for North Korea... As your comment about Americans freely using the Nuclear bomb, Don't forget who attacked them in the first place, and woke the sleeping Giant ( Pearl Harbor). Lets just say this... If I had to choose who should lead the most powerful army in the world, it sure wouldn't be Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong-il, or Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin. I'd choose Obama out of all those evils.

So you agree。


and i agree id rather obama/ron paul lead the usa out of those available... i'd prefer if Jimmy Carter came back though

Oooh, political debate thread
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I think they could all use a hug... from Jesus