REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Police Forum

Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2012, 04:18 PM   #1
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Why do pedestrians have the right of way even when facing a "don't walk" signal?

Just like the title says, why do pedestrians have the right of way even when facing a "don't walk" signal?

Quote:
(3) When the word "wait", the words "don't walk" or an outline of a raised hand are exhibited at an intersection or at a place other than an intersection by a pedestrian traffic control signal,

(a) a pedestrian must not enter the roadway, and

(b) a pedestrian proceeding across the roadway and facing the word "wait", the words "don't walk", or an outline of a raised hand exhibited after he or she entered the roadway

(i) must proceed to the sidewalk as quickly as possible, and

(ii) has the right of way for that purpose over all vehicles.
I was watching today where a pedestrian was crossing at a pedestrian controlled crosswalk against the "don't walk" sign. 4 lanes of moderately heavy traffic approaching the flashing green lights.

The pedestrian was in the middle of the road and was obscured from view by a large vehicle that had already entered the intersection waiting to make a left turn such that two of the lanes of traffic could not see her.
Advertisement
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 06:51 PM   #2
VAC Head Rotang Mod
 
Raid3n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: GP
Posts: 10,378
Thanked 1,180 Times in 523 Posts
right of way only applies to a padestrian that enters the crosswalk on a "walk" signal, and before finishing the crossing the signal turns to "Don't walk". not to someone that enters on a don't walk. i believe that falls under jay walking (not sure about that).
__________________
1990 FC3S
1984 GSX-R 400
2001 CBR600F4i

My Feedback (10-0-0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fei-Ji View Post
haha i can taste the cum in my mouth
Raid3n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 06:54 PM   #3
...on a mission....
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: n
Posts: 281
Thanked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Just like the title says, why do pedestrians have the right of way even when facing a "don't walk" signal?

Quote:
(3) When the word "wait", the words "don't walk" or an outline of a raised hand are exhibited at an intersection or at a place other than an intersection by a pedestrian traffic control signal,

(a) a pedestrian must not enter the roadway, and

(b) a pedestrian proceeding across the roadway and facing the word "wait", the words "don't walk", or an outline of a raised hand exhibited after he or she entered the roadway

(i) must proceed to the sidewalk as quickly as possible, and

(ii) has the right of way for that purpose over all vehicles.
They don't....by law. Section B of what you have quoted is regarding a pedestrian that is IN the crosswalk at the time of pedestrian sign changing to wait or don't walk. If that happens.....they must proceed as quickly as possible, and having been IN the crosswalk when the change happened...still has the right of way.
Simnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 07:12 PM   #4
Even when im right, revscene.net is still right!
 
Gnomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Richmond
Posts: 1,311
Thanked 609 Times in 187 Posts
I think someone once quoted a section saying - motorists should yield to pedestrians who are disoriented, confused, etc.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSALES View Post
While driving yesterday I saw a banana peel in the road and instinctively swerved to avoid it...thanks Mario Kart.
Gnomes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2012, 07:49 PM   #5
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver
Posts: 827
Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
I don't know if this still exists:

About 12 years ago, I had a friend who was driving down a street in vancouver at night, and had someone jaywalk RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER CAR. She was travelling at approx 35-40Km/H, as per ICBC.

The woman she hit died in hospital the next night. My friend was devastated. She cried and stressed and didn't' know what was going to happen to her.

ICBC told her it's not her fault. At all. Given that the lady was jaywalking at night, in a dark area of the street.
BallPeenHammer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 01:48 AM   #6
racing & tech mod.
 
Rich Sandor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,027
Thanked 491 Times in 183 Posts
It's a common misconception that pedestrians have the right of way at all times. THEY DON'T.

Now, you are obviously not supposed to hit a pedestrian under any circumstances, but that does not mean they 'have the right of way' at all times. These are two difference concepts.

There have been a few cases in the last decade of pedestrians being on the hook for damage they've caused to cars when jaywalking. Also note, I've heard of a health insurance company declining a payout for someone injured while jaywalking. (carelessly ran out in front of traffic)
Rich Sandor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 05:49 AM   #7
RS Peace Officer
 
zulutango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver Islan
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 1,623 Times in 678 Posts
Also to a cyclist who rode his bicycle off the sidewalk and out onto a crosswalk where he was hit by a car.
zulutango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #8
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simnut View Post
They don't....by law. Section B of what you have quoted is regarding a pedestrian that is IN the crosswalk at the time of pedestrian sign changing to wait or don't walk. If that happens.....they must proceed as quickly as possible, and having been IN the crosswalk when the change happened...still has the right of way.
So what about this:

Pedestrian enters crosswalk against a do not cross sign. Cars have the flashing green because the pedestrian hasn't pressed the button on the post to cross.

Pedestrian is in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic. Right of way goes to the pedestrian, correct? Cars facing the flashing green need to stop?
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 06:29 PM   #9
RS Peace Officer
 
zulutango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver Islan
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 1,623 Times in 678 Posts
Unless they want to hit the idiot breaking the law on the crosswalk. (in the scenario you gave us)
zulutango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 06:32 PM   #10
NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fernie BC
Posts: 34
Thanked 11 Times in 7 Posts
I am of the bent that if I am a pedestrian all cars are out to kill me whether I have the right of way or not. lol
mtnrat is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 02-17-2012, 06:36 PM   #11
RS Peace Officer
 
zulutango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver Islan
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 1,623 Times in 678 Posts
"Size matters"...specially when things bump into things.
zulutango is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 02-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #12
The Lone Wanderator
 
Graeme S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 12,089
Thanked 4,367 Times in 1,137 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
So what about this:

Pedestrian enters crosswalk against a do not cross sign. Cars have the flashing green because the pedestrian hasn't pressed the button on the post to cross.

Pedestrian is in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic. Right of way goes to the pedestrian, correct? Cars facing the flashing green need to stop?
Cars have the right of way, but drivers have a duty not to hit people ("objects on the road") which they can avoid.
Graeme S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2012, 09:12 PM   #13
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Richmond
Posts: 846
Thanked 404 Times in 178 Posts
As an aside...

The way I see it, from strictly a safety point of view, right-of-way is to be given, not taken. I cover my own ass out there on the street whether I'm on my feet, bicycle, motorcycle, or in my car. I'll gladly take the inconvenience of stopping for somebody who decides to disobey the rules of the road if it means avoiding an accident.
BillyBishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 09:58 AM   #14
racing & tech mod.
 
Rich Sandor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,027
Thanked 491 Times in 183 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
So what about this:

Pedestrian enters crosswalk against a do not cross sign. Cars have the flashing green because the pedestrian hasn't pressed the button on the post to cross.

Pedestrian is in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic. Right of way goes to the pedestrian, correct? Cars facing the flashing green need to stop?
No. The pedestrian in this case does NOT have 'right of way' as he has entered the intersection illegally. If a vehicle is unable to safely yield for, or safely avoid the pedestrian, the pedestrian shall be found at fault for the accident. If the vehicle would have been able to safely avoid the pedestrian, but hits the pedestrians anyways, the driver of the vehicle would be found partially or completely at fault.
Rich Sandor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 01:24 PM   #15
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
GoneGuru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Surrey
Posts: 503
Thanked 1,392 Times in 180 Posts
Would it be hard to prove if the pedestrian was lying if they were to say they had the walk symbol when they got hit? Especially if it's just you and the pedestrian at an empty intersection?
GoneGuru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 04:58 PM   #16
racing & tech mod.
 
Rich Sandor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,027
Thanked 491 Times in 183 Posts
If it's a "he said - she said' scenario, then yes, it would be hard to prove. I think the onus would be on the driver to prove that he could not stop in time for the pedestrian. If I were the driver I would be looking for witnesses and cameras to back me up.
Rich Sandor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 05:13 PM   #17
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,731
Thanked 12,144 Times in 3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BallPeenHammer2 View Post
I don't know if this still exists:

About 12 years ago, I had a friend who was driving down a street in vancouver at night, and had someone jaywalk RIGHT IN FRONT OF HER CAR. She was travelling at approx 35-40Km/H, as per ICBC.

The woman she hit died in hospital the next night. My friend was devastated. She cried and stressed and didn't' know what was going to happen to her.

ICBC told her it's not her fault. At all. Given that the lady was jaywalking at night, in a dark area of the street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Sandor View Post
It's a common misconception that pedestrians have the right of way at all times. THEY DON'T.

Now, you are obviously not supposed to hit a pedestrian under any circumstances, but that does not mean they 'have the right of way' at all times. These are two difference concepts.

There have been a few cases in the last decade of pedestrians being on the hook for damage they've caused to cars when jaywalking. Also note, I've heard of a health insurance company declining a payout for someone injured while jaywalking. (carelessly ran out in front of traffic)
Had a story along these lines several years ago...

Was about 1:30am... wife was on her way home, eastbound on 1st Ave. about half a block before Commercial Drive, when some drunk chick basically flung herself at the car.

Fortunately she was in a block of traffic approaching a red light, so they were going slow and no real damage was done... and there were lots of witnesses from the surrounding houses because the girl and her similarly drunk friend had been arguing VERY loudly, culminating in the "victim" shouting, "FINE THEN, I'M JUST GONNA FUCKING KILL MYSELF" and flinging herself onto the hood of our car.

My wife was a bit of a mess after she got home, until one of the attending cops called us from the hospital at around 4am to let her know the girl would be okay... and that she had no idea how or why she was in the hospital.

Apparently the girl told the story that they WEREN'T drunk and that they were only walking down to the McDonalds for some food (the McD's there had closed years before), and they were coming from a house party where they'd started drinking about 3 in the afternoon

The cop said she mentioned several times about suing the car that hit her, but followed up by stating that there was no chance of that happening, and no chance of ICBC paying her out any money for her injuries.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2012, 06:42 PM   #18
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 801
Thanked 1,323 Times in 263 Posts
A bit off-topic, but how does one deal with pedestrians like this ? This one Asian lady had HUGE bags of what I can only assume to be can/bottles walking down the street with a cart. Whats the correct way of dealing with something like this ? If a motorist drove by and told her off, I'm 99% sure she wouldn't listen or care enough to do something about it.

Paradise240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #19
Revscene.net has a homepage?!
 
kunoman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Montrťal
Posts: 1,232
Thanked 953 Times in 257 Posts
I have this strange feeling that the police will most often side with the pedestrian, even when he or she is at fault. I know it is not true but I feel I am siding with the common misconception.
Do pedestrians have the right of way on the don't walk?
Probably not, but just because the cars therefore now have the right of way, doesn't allow cars to hit pedestrians. I think (don't quote me) could be considered involuntary manslaughter?
So sure cars may have the right of way in this scenario but there are still the responsibilities of safe driving that need to be adhered.
kunoman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2012, 09:55 PM   #20
The Lone Wanderator
 
Graeme S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 12,089
Thanked 4,367 Times in 1,137 Posts
Two cars hit each other, the one without the right of way is at fault. ICBC gets involved, and a few thousand dollars later (from ICBC, and from the policy payers), everything is all right again.

One car hits a person, the person (without the right of way) is at fault. Person might be dead, and a few thousand tears later, nothing will be right again.


"Right of way" doesn't mean "Right to go about my way".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paradise240 View Post
A bit off-topic, but how does one deal with pedestrians like this ? This one Asian lady had HUGE bags of what I can only assume to be can/bottles walking down the street with a cart. Whats the correct way of dealing with something like this ? If a motorist drove by and told her off, I'm 99% sure she wouldn't listen or care enough to do something about it.
I think what you did was pretty much what you should be doing. If the cops see her, they'll probably bust her for jaywalking or something, not sure. IIRC I've seen that lady downtown in the alleys and on the sidewalks. Feel kinda bad for her sometimes.
Graeme S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 07:27 AM   #21
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,731
Thanked 12,144 Times in 3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S View Post
One car hits a person, the person (without the right of way) is at fault. Person might be dead, and a few thousand tears later, nothing will be right again.
And this is the sad truth that pedestrians and cyclists seem to forget: it doesn't matter if you have the right of way, you will always come out on the losing side of tangling with three thousand pounds of steel and glass.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 09:05 AM   #22
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,731
Thanked 12,144 Times in 3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
So what about this:

Pedestrian enters crosswalk against a do not cross sign. Cars have the flashing green because the pedestrian hasn't pressed the button on the post to cross.

Pedestrian is in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic. Right of way goes to the pedestrian, correct? Cars facing the flashing green need to stop?
Ahhh now I understand... you don't have an irrational distrust of authority that leads you to question it at every turn, you simply have a selective reading disorder complicated by a selective understanding condition.

Perhaps if you went back and finished your fifth-grade Engrish, you'd be able to better grasp the laws you keep ragging on, and you wouldn't always be coming across as an anti-cop douchebag.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 02-20-2012, 11:41 AM   #23
My homepage has been set to RS
 
melloman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: #604
Posts: 2,253
Thanked 2,439 Times in 806 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S View Post
If the cops see her, they'll probably bust her for jaywalking or something, not sure.
Maybe to her, but for the typical citizen... nothing will happen.
Even if the light is steps away.. (Ex: This mornings commute, a lady decided to walk through the red light traffic across Byrne Rd. @ Marine Way. I almost slammed into her because she just casually walked out between 2 cars..)

Not to be a cruel human being, but some people need to be hit to understand it's not okay to jaywalk.
__________________
Quote:
[17-03, 09:23] Amuro Ray is it normal for my dick to have things growing on it?
Quote:
[15-05, 13:34] FastAnna You guise are like diet coke and I am the mentos
[15-05, 13:34] FastAnna Incredible. How easy it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murd0c View Post
I'm scared of spiders... When I see one I toss my cats at it
melloman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 08:02 PM   #24
My dinner reheated before my turbo spooled
 
Hickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Parksville
Posts: 1,732
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by melloman View Post
Not to be a cruel human being, but some people need to be hit to understand it's not okay to jaywalk.


*Edit* Infact, is it cool if I put that in my Sig? That is totally worthy.
__________________
Jay
2002 Mazda Protege 5
1987 Mazda Rx-7 TII (Sold :( )

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisStang View Post
Meh, if my car comes back not on fire after my wife drives it, I consider it a good day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super WOP View Post
Heavy is the opposite of light.

I'll get you some crayon and paper and draw it out for you if its too complex.
Hickman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 10:06 AM   #25
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
FuhrŽr-Z's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: van
Posts: 520
Thanked 227 Times in 61 Posts
People underestimate the potential danger that comes with vehicles on a daily basis. Work vans/trucks tearing it down right lanes thinking the laws of physics/road conditions don't apply to them. Pedestrians thinking that every driver behind the wheel is competent or not on their cellphone.

Everyone knows that there are drivers out there that shouldn't have been able to get their licenses... Just cause you aren't behind the wheel at the moment, doesn't mean those shitty drivers actions don't apply to you anymore...

The law might protect you legally, but it doesn't make you immortal.
FuhrŽr-Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net