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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 03-04-2012, 12:39 AM   #26
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Age: 25
Annual income: fluctuates a bit, around 95k + car allowance last year
Field of employment: car dealership
Where do you live? North Burnaby
Single/couple/married? Single
Renting/own? I rent a nice 1BR apartment.
Investments: I have maxed my TFSA which I am using to invest in the stock market. I also am working towards acquiring an interest in a development property in the US.

I have saved up enough money at this point for a downpayment on a place but I don't see the point of doing so right now. Financially, because I can invest my 'nest egg' and earn more than the expected rate of return on a personal home for me, renting actually earns me money.

Currently my apartment would cost around $329k to buy (1BR, 700sq ft, new building, 18th floor, nice mountain view in North Burnaby). This means that assuming I put a downpayment of $80,000 (25%) towards the property, it would cost me approximately:
$1195 monthly mortgage payment (4% rate)
$150 estimated property taxes
$210 strata fee
for round numbers, lets say $1,550/month.

However, I currently rent the apartment for $1,150. The first benefit is I save $400 per month in real cash and enjoy a great deal of flexibility - I can move whenever I feel like it, I am not responsible for any strata liabilities, etc.

With that said, there is a MUCH bigger reason to rent in my personal case which is what I could earn with the downpayment if it wasn't in my house. For round numbers, lets say I can obtain a 10% rate of return on my money with a manageable level of risk, which means that each year I am going to earn around $8000 in interest on my money which is approximately $650 per month.

By renting, I benefit financially by approximately $1,050 per month which equates to $12,600 per year.

I should point out that the math assumes that the property value stays the same which is not always the case. If the property value is appreciating then in theory the leveraging effect of a mortgage will help offset the losses each year substantially. This is obviously difficult to model, but my current sentiment is that Vancouver is more than likely to experience some retracement in residential real estate pricing and this is a big factor.

It also assumes that I am only able to do 10% on my money where in fact I am seeking returns of 20%+ while I am young since a more aggressive risk profile is suited to younger investors.

Hope that is useful information,
Mark
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:55 AM   #27
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Age: 19
Annual income: ~24k/year before taxes
Field of employment: Automotive Service
Where do you live? Surrey
Single/couple/married? Single
Renting/own? Living at home
Investments: TFSA and RRSP, currently at a low investment rate.

I live at home, but I pay for monthly food and utilities as a de facto rent. I can only invest $150 a month into my TFSA and $50 a month into my RRSP because I am covering student loan and car payments, while also saving for my next apprenticeship classes. I personally would like to move out of Surrey to either Burnaby or Coquitlam for a change of scenery, but I'm probably going to be waiting until I'm at LEAST 25 before I have enough money saved up for that to happen.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:37 AM   #28
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Annual income: 110-150k depending on side gigs. ~70k day job + fluctuation between ~20-50k+ music royalties/producing, + ~20k small business.
Field of employment: Engineer by day, writer/songwriter/small business owner
Where do you live? East Van
Single/couple/married? Single
Renting/own? Rent paid to my mom
Investments: TFSA, RRSP, Mutal Funds, general e-savings, small business, stocks here and there

I live with my parents. I pay rent, and pay for hydro, food, cable, as well as my younger brother's bus pass and cell phone.

I was going to move out last year, but I decided to invest into more assets while I'm still young. My parents are also pretty tight on money, so I get to help them out too. I might be forced to move out soon, as my little bedroom can't contain all my music equipment and space requirements for my home business.

It really depends what your goals are.. Like a few people said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with renting. For some people, it actually makes more sense to rent.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:39 AM   #29
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When I was working full time making mid 40's last year I did all the calculations and met with a mortgage broker. It was possible to afford a place in the high 200's with 15k down. There are a bunch of condos in N. Van, White Rock, Surrey and Coquitlam I was considering.

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Bro. No offense. @ 40k per year you aren't buying anything in Vancouver proper. You either have to look at the burbs or wait until you start making some decent coin... you're still young so time is on your side.
There were a few older apts. for sale off Marine Drive/ Kerr area that were only a slight bit more. Really nice area too and tons of development happenign there right now.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:09 AM   #30
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ive a close friend same boat as many except he has a kid on the way and a fiance @ home; he lives with his rents and doesnt have enough for his own place especially with a kid on the way

so what he and his family are doing is they're pooling their cash together and they're going to buy a larger house for the whole family (his sister is moving back from TO with 2 kids in tow)


i guess it depends if you have an issue with living @ home or if your parents have an issue with it and if there's even space for it


its either that or look to the burbs for an apartment
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:57 AM   #31
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Follow your goals. If your goal is to own your own place in GVRD no matter what, then i think taking on a career for the money rather doing what you enjoy is a sacrifice you have to make. On the other hand if you just want a comfortable easy job and can care less how much you make, then go that route.

Or be smart and do what all successful 20's do; move the heck out of Vancouver. Once you are rich, you can always go back.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:36 AM   #32
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Age: 27
Annual income: If you average out the last 3 years, say 200k/year.
Field of employment: Oil and gas, project management, consultation, insepction services.
Where do you live? North Vancouver.
Single/couple/married? Couple
Renting/own? Rent, 1850/month, 1000sq ft 1 bedroom apartment.
Investments: TFSA and a cash trading account valued at roughly 140k, savings account and a company account.
Education: High school and some industry specific certifications that are "study on your own time" and then write the exam.

I tossed education in there as I think it relates to the concept of this thread, and would be interesting to see the relationship between educational level and empoyment income.

I split the bills with my other half, so my basic personal living expenses are about 1500/month (Rent, leased car, insurance, cell phone, cable, etc)

My corporations monthly expenses are about 500$/month:WCB, Liability Insurance, Registration, Insurance for my work truck (I own the truck), etc.

So it costs me a minimum of 3000$/month to live when you factor in food and gas, being realistic it's probably closer the 4000$ mark.

I "could" afford to buy a place... but why? The money I have made off my investments in the last 5 months has paid my rent for the last 3 years... If I owned a house, I wouldn't be able to have so much money invested... so I'm not "losing money" by renting.

Real estate is IMO severely overpriced and will revert to the mean, it never would have made it to this point if they never relaxed lending standards to give people 0 down/40 year mortgages. Now Canadians are broke, savings at an all time low, debt to income at an all time high, the main culprit is housing.

I feel like I'm poor, yet I make more money than I every thought I would. People may argue, but our generation got the shaft...
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:42 AM   #33
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jasonturbo, lowside67, and Iceman19 are anomalies in that they make extremely good money for their age. I would say that my situation is a pretty good median (i.e. I speak for the silent majority of university-educated office drones.)

Age: 30
Annual Income: In the low 60s (full time gig in public service and part-time gig)
Field of Employment: Claims negotiations
Where do you live: Burnaby
Status: Single
Renting/own: Thanks to the Bank of Mom and Dad, they provided me with a down payment back in 2004. The value of my condo has risen roughly 130K since 2004. Even if the market tanks (up to about 40%), I'll be okay.
Investments: I have a few thousand in RRSPs and I have a TSFA which I will be using to fund my part-time graduate degree. I have equity, but being risk averse, I have not used it to grow my investment portfolio. The game-changer for me is that is if I stay with my employer for the next 20 years, I have a defined benefit pension to take care of me in old age. However, that ties me down (the golden handcuffs, so to speak) and the pension may not be there once I retire if the political pressure to eliminate benefits in public service becomes too great.

I've done a lot of thinking about the past year about my financial and career goals (I did start a thread over a year ago in the Business and Financial forum about my situation). I've applied for a Masters program which I will pursue part time. However, I've also thought about whether or not I want to stay in public service and/or possibly relocating. If I were 7-8 years younger (fresh out of my undergrad), I would have relocated (think big: NYC, London, etc.) At this point in my career development, I'm not sure if I could make the jump to something else without taking a significant pay cut. I do know that I have some intangible skills and qualities that others don't have (public speaking, charisma, and people skills), but perhaps I will have to leverage these when I'm mortgage free (in about 10-15 years.)

If I were you, I would look at relocating and forget about owning a condo. While I'm fairly lucky, I wouldn't consider condo ownership unless you have a really strong desire to gain equity. You don't actually own anything if you own a condo - you have no physical asset (i.e. land) and very little flexibility when it comes to making it your own.

One more thing - I re-read the OPs initial post and he highlighted personal development. One the best investments you can make is to join a Toastmasters club. I'm not throwing that out there as a shameless plug, but you need communication skills in anything that you do (it's particularly amazing how underdeveloped these skills are when you're out there.) There aren't many other programs out there that provide an opportunity to develop your communication skills at such a low cost (~$70-$250/year.)

Last edited by Tapioca; 03-04-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:14 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tapioca View Post
jasonturbo, lowside67, and Iceman19 are anomalies in that they make extremely good money for their age.
I think it's more correlated between salary:career choice, as opposed to salary:age.

Not to take anything away from them, but Jasonturbo and Iceman's area of work is considered the trade industry, so I don't think their salaries are abnormal at all.

I know plenty of 19-20 year olds who went straight to BCIT for a trade after high school and started at 70-120k. Their saving habits are however.. another story.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:21 AM   #35
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Where do you live? Coquitlam
Single/couple/married? Single.
Renting/own? Own
Investments: tfsa & rrsp's

I saved up for a down payment for about 4 years and finally bought a townhouse last year. I'm debt free except for the mortgage and have some money saved up for a rainy day or an emergency fund if I ever lose my job or something like that.

I've been thinking of going to alberta for a bit to work so I can live more comfortably but haven't made any decisions yet. Still waiting to find that rich single woman that's out there haha.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:54 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by top_dyl View Post
wait it out for another few years live at home and ask daddy to put a down payment for you and pay your mortgages.

by living at home, you're essentially saving 40k every year. If you move out making 40k on a job that's like working for nothing

if your parents make 500k or so yearly before taxes, a year or two of waiting is like another million without ever really working!
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:05 PM   #37
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You make 70M and live in Langley? I am sure it's a typo for 70k.

What type of condo are you citing for 190k? 400 sq ft studios? I don't see buying apartments in the suburbs would be a good investment, just for the sake of "owning". Apartments do not increase in value as high as detached houses. That is unless you want to strap yourself in a mortgage so that you are "forced to save".

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Originally Posted by Narayan View Post
Maybe look at moving farther out? Fraser Valley has some good starting points for your first home... I.e. Langley and Abbotsford.

I live in Langley and there is a new condo development going up in the heart of town that starts at around 190,000. With 5% down your mtg payment would be under $800 per month to own your own place.

You may have your heart set on Vancouver but I think there maybe better options for you?

I'm 30 make just over 70M a year and have 3 kids with my wife working part time. We own our own house and get by just fine... If anything someone in my life stage should be bitching about cost of living trying to support a family of 5 with my food bill reaching over 1000-1200 per month, kids in numeros activities etc.... hahahahha

If you're in your early 20's making 40+ a year you should be proud man... you're ahead of the curve.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #38
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I had help from my parents put down good amount of down pay and i'm paying off my mortgage going to school and working part time. its rough.. but good to know that I have my own place. Actually renting the place out and I live at home.

But a place in Maple Ridge area or pitt meadows even. IF that stupid greenline is ever built, the price will surely go up. Good investment..

AND damn everyone makes good money! I'm in my late 20s, i feel like i need to step up my game in my life big time
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:56 PM   #39
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This thread reminds me how poor and hopeless I am. Here it goes.

Age: 21
Annual income: 20,000$
Field of employment: floral industry.
Where do you live? Vancouver/mount pleasant area
Single/couple/married? Single.
Renting/own? Renting a basement suite with a roomate. 550$.
Investments: 100$ in a tfsa.
Education:Film school....

I live paycheck to paycheck and I often max out my credit card each month only to pay half of it off. I'd like to get more involved in courier work, but the pay isn't ideal. My major plan is to move back home with my parents(northern alberta), get cheap rent and work construction. I did that two summers ago and I made 30,000$ in 6 months. Although I love this city, I need to get a master plan and stop this aimless lifestyle. But then again, I'm 21, this aimless lifestyle is quite enjoyable.
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Old 03-04-2012, 01:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonturbo View Post
Age: 27
Annual income: If you average out the last 3 years, say 200k/year.
Field of employment: Oil and gas, project management, consultation, insepction services.
Where do you live? North Vancouver.
Single/couple/married? Couple
Renting/own? Rent, 1850/month, 1000sq ft 1 bedroom apartment.
Investments: TFSA and a cash trading account valued at roughly 140k, savings account and a company account.
Education: High school and some industry specific certifications that are "study on your own time" and then write the exam.

I tossed education in there as I think it relates to the concept of this thread, and would be interesting to see the relationship between educational level and empoyment income.

I split the bills with my other half, so my basic personal living expenses are about 1500/month (Rent, leased car, insurance, cell phone, cable, etc)

My corporations monthly expenses are about 500$/month:WCB, Liability Insurance, Registration, Insurance for my work truck (I own the truck), etc.

So it costs me a minimum of 3000$/month to live when you factor in food and gas, being realistic it's probably closer the 4000$ mark.

I "could" afford to buy a place... but why? The money I have made off my investments in the last 5 months has paid my rent for the last 3 years... If I owned a house, I wouldn't be able to have so much money invested... so I'm not "losing money" by renting.

Real estate is IMO severely overpriced and will revert to the mean, it never would have made it to this point if they never relaxed lending standards to give people 0 down/40 year mortgages. Now Canadians are broke, savings at an all time low, debt to income at an all time high, the main culprit is housing.

I feel like I'm poor, yet I make more money than I every thought I would. People may argue, but our generation got the shaft...
Hey Jason

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Old 03-04-2012, 01:54 PM   #41
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Age: 28
Annual income: $70K
Field of employment: Web Development
Where do you live? Edmonton
Single/couple/married? Couple
Renting/own? Renting @ $1400 downtown apt
Investments: RRSP

Really wish I wasn't a fuck off in high school and really put my nose to the book grinder instead. Had to leave Vancouver because there is so much competition in my line of work so I moved my family to Edmonton. Ghastly city. All depressed and shit. Looking at the housing market for my family's future, it looks like I will be buying a house here instead of Vancouver. Damn you $$$!!!!!
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:27 PM   #42
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Quote:
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I think it's more correlated between salary:career choice, as opposed to salary:age.

Not to take anything away from them, but Jasonturbo and Iceman's area of work is considered the trade industry, so I don't think their salaries are abnormal at all.

I know plenty of 19-20 year olds who went straight to BCIT for a trade after high school and started at 70-120k. Their saving habits are however.. another story.
We are not an anomaly at all. There are 100,000 other people up in the area we work making a minimum of 70+k a year, with the majority making 95-100k+. Everyone I work with makes the same as I do or more. The messed up thing is, you don't even need a high school diploma or any real skills to get the job I do. I know a lot of people up here are working to pay off their huge student loan debts. They are driving a truck or running equipment, not working in their field they went to school for.

As for saving habits, I have to agree with your trail off, haha. I am just turning mine around.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:39 PM   #43
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I am actually happy this thread was started. It has changed my mind on trying to buy a condo. I still kinda wouldn't mind a house or a townhouse, but I think I'll wait until I meet someone and we figure out where we want to live.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:47 PM   #44
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Your posts are pure gold. Words for you are like a step inside your inner psyche, and I for one appreciate the learning that I gain from your insightful teachings.

I look forward to each and every syllable with due excitement.

Or it could be that you are a troll. Kind of a crap shoot. Perhaps you could fuck off for a while and we'll see if you are missed.
im just saying live at home so you live with no expenses unless you're getting married or something. i work a trades too my money doesn't come that easy either
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:59 PM   #45
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I will probably get flamed for this because my view of Vancouver being expensive is the opposite of most people here.

I personally don't think living in Vancouver is expensive at all, especially when considering all the intangibles you get (ie. mountain views, beautiful sea-wall, ocean air, dense-mixe use-urban planning, great food etc). This is why I refuse to live in the suburbs, regardless of the "discount."

The main reason why people think living in Vancouver is expensive is because of the cost of buying a home. But one must consider at least two things. One, Vancouver is in a huge housing bubble, and in my estimation it is the second largest housing bubble in the world after China. Second, why this obsession over "owning" a home? I think people need to get over this psychological barrier and understand that what you are looking for is really utility, that is a roof over your head. Right now, renting in Vancouver is a steal imo. My family has been in the real estate business for over 10 years now and we would be operating at a loss if we had a mortgage on our properties. There has been so much building in the last decade that the rental market (as an investment) is a joke.

To put into perspective, there is one unit we are renting which is a one bedroom suite in a newer house right by the skytrain station for only 700 bucks! And that includes electricity/heating/internet/laundry/cable! The unit is rented to a young couple from HK atm and that means it only cost them 350 each to live in a nice new home, in one of the nicest cities in the world! If that's not a steal I don't know what is.

I also intend to be buying my own house in Vancouver in the future (after the market corrects of course) and atm I have all my money invested and working hard for me. I refuse to be like all the other sheeple desperate to buy with next-to-nothing-down in one of the last remaining housing bubble markets.

PS. Although I love driving, I take public transit most of the time and only drive for pleasure and this has saved me huge amounts of money every year which I plow back into my investments-helping me make more money.

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Old 03-04-2012, 03:25 PM   #46
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:27 PM   #47
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PS. Although I love driving, I take public transit most of the time and only drive for pleasure and this has saved me huge amounts of money every year which I plow back into my investments-helping me make more money.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:36 PM   #48
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:28 PM   #49
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Age: late 20s
Annual income: 60k after income tax
Field of employment: Bank and insurance
Where do you live? HK
Single/couple/married? Engaged
Renting/own? Owned by fiancÚ, no mortgage
Investments: 60% of saving in stocks, 20% term deposit

What is wrong with living with ur parents? It is a trend these yrs and I see more people are doing it. I moved out and moved back to my parents place several times in my mid 20s, during the time I lived with them I found my life was actually happier, regardless how much money I could save there. Maybe I was born in an Asian family, taking care the elderly is a must.

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Old 03-04-2012, 05:45 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by asian_XL View Post
What is wrong with living with ur parents? It is a trend these yrs and I see more people are doing it. I moved out and moved back to my parents place several times in my mid 20s, during the time I lived with them I found my life was actually happier, regardless how much money I could save there. Maybe I was born in an Asian family, taking care the elderly is a must.
Nothing's wrong with living with your parents.. to a certain extent. It all depends on your situation.

I'm making about 3x more than what both my parents make combined, and I live at home. They're pretty tight on cash, especially with my younger brother still in high school. I'm still living at home so I can help out by paying them rent, as well as their bills, groceries, and my younger brother's expenses.

But like I said a few posts above, my little bedroom can't accommodate my space requirements for my business and side projects, so we're throwing around the idea of getting a foreign exchange student to take my bedroom as I move out into a condo. But I'd probably still give them a few hundred bucks a month to help out with their expenses.
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