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The thin line between love and hate
Mature discussion about understanding the opposite sex...

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Old 03-21-2012, 11:58 PM   #1
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A friend.

has the meaning of a true, good friend lost its meaning in the last couple years. speaking to an audience made up of generally males here, is it because of our egos that made us more unaware and unwilling to be aware of the people around us. im not sure if its because of my age at only 21 or i was expecting too much from the people i once thought were real friends, it seems like "friends" these days are only still together because of the fun factor. when a problem arises, they don't want to get involved and try their very best to have nothing to do with it.

i hung out with a pretty tight group during high school and even after we graduated we all still consistently and very commonly went to each others house to chill. until last year, well for me anyways. i always thought to myself that these guys were awesome friends, the people who i can rely on when life takes a shit on you or when you have no where to go. i had a very immature, stupid argument over bbm, an argument that i thought was just a joke, turned out to be something a lot more serious then i thought to the other party. i didn't know since joking around was such a common occurrence between all of us!! anyways to get to the point, i left the country in the next couple days for vacation and when i came back 2 months later, everyone stopped contacting me. they know im alive and back in vancouver but they just decided to stop calling me out.

now in my pov, the rest of the group doesn't want any problems between me and the friend who i had an argument with, so instead of help solving the problem, they just simply rule me out.
why.
i did my part to try and solve it but thats not the point, the point is why THEY didnt do their part and say, "you know what, fuck the both of you. you guys are close friends now go solve this stupid as shit before talking to any of us, because you TWO fucked up." when they notice that it wasn't working out. maybe its just me, but if i was a bystander to a situation like this, i would definitely directly say it because they are both blinded by their own egos and stupidity and also because im a goddamn fuken friend.

i haven't seen them for a whole damn year...its fuken lonely and it fuken hurts especially when i sign onto facebook and see a bunch of pictures of them all hanging out and having fun... but at the same time, i don't feel sorry for this situation anymore because i learned its just not worth it.

sorry for my rant, i just wanted to get this off my chest as this has always been occupying my mind.

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Old 03-22-2012, 12:15 AM   #2
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have you tried calling them out on it?

I have come across some "friends" like that in my life....also, being 21, it sounds like they are still stuck in HS-mode. In a few years, you will realize how pathetic they are for doing this.

It is cliche, but if they truly cared about you...they would not have done this. Some times people mature at different rate...my advice is unfriend them on FB and move on...you are better than them.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:17 AM   #3
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Do like i did

Fuckem and move on.
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #4
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Try not get caught up in your own sob story and look at it in an objective manner. You keep talking about the pride and ego of others but have you put your own pride and ego in check? Again, putting your sob story aside, it's usually not by coincidence that you end up being the "odd guy out." Like what was the nature of the joke argument you made that everyone took so seriously? Is there more than that like accruing situations compounding the situation?



Here's a little life lesson I learned. A lot of the times where I find myself unhappy or in an unfortunate situation, more often than not, it's because of my own doing; and even harder is accepting the fact that I had a hand in my own undoing.

I know it hurts to see pictures of your tight group carrying on without you, but some things in life are supposed to hurt. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here. An opportunity for you to grow as person and/or correct flaws in you that you weren't aware about. Perhaps the biggest mistake here is you not taking anything out of this life lesson by insisting it's always everyone else's fault but yours; or the fault is about what everyone else could've done differently instead of you.


Do what I did and take this, not as an opportunity to judge others, but as an opportunity to judge yourself. Who knows... maybe this unpleasant time of your life can end up making you a better person than you were before.

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Old 03-22-2012, 12:55 AM   #5
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Try not get caught up in your own sob story and look at it in an objective manner. You keep talking about the pride and ego of others but have you put your own pride and ego in check? Again, putting your sob story aside, it's usually not by coincidence that you end up being the "odd guy out." Like what was the nature of the joke argument you made that everyone took so seriously? Is there more than that like accruing situations compounding the situation?



Here's a little life lesson I learned. A lot of the times where I find myself unhappy or in an unfortunate situation, more often than not, it's because of my own doing; and even harder is accepting the fact that I had a hand in my own undoing.

I know it hurts to see pictures of your tight group carrying on without you, but some things in life are supposed to hurt. Maybe there's a lesson to be learned here. An opportunity for you to grow as person and/or correct flaws in you that you weren't aware about. Perhaps the biggest mistake here is you not taking anything out of this life lesson by insisting it's always everyone else's fault but yours; or the fault is about what everyone else could've done differently instead of you.


Do what I did and take this, not as an opportunity to judge others, but as an opportunity to judge yourself. Who knows... maybe this unpleasant time of your life can end up making you a better person than you were before.
to be honest, i tried to think of what i did wrong that would have caused everyone around me to do this, but i just can't think of anything. im more or the quiet type and a follower instead of a leader in the group. what i lack in entertainment due to being quiet, i try to make it up by being a more generous and caring person. when i know something happened to any of my friends i always tried to be there for them no matter what. the person who i had an argument on the other hand, has a completely opposite personality then me, he is talkative and is seen as the alfa in our group. i guess to the group, it was a easy decision to take the fun, alfa bro and exclude the quiet guy.
by the way, a related [B]example[B] would be who is the better starcraft player...the nature of this subject was already very non-serious from the start. i don't see how it could have done such extraordinary damage that would result from this.

i guess the reason why it hurts so much is because i tried to be too caring and generous and i hoped that it would be what i would get in return.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:18 AM   #6
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the only reason they ever became your friend was becus you were all in the same hs and classes, etc etc. no respect. someone told me this and it all made sense. It's times like these when they really need to show their true selfs that you realize that those so called "friends" were just mere acquaintances due to highschool
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by 46_valentinor View Post
to be honest, i tried to think of what i did wrong that would have caused everyone around me to do this, but i just can't think of anything. im more or the quiet type and a follower instead of a leader in the group. what i lack in entertainment due to being quiet, i try to make it up by being a more generous and caring person. when i know something happened to any of my friends i always tried to be there for them no matter what. the person who i had an argument on the other hand, has a completely opposite personality then me, he is talkative and is seen as the alfa in our group. i guess to the group, it was a easy decision to take the fun, alfa bro and exclude the quiet guy.
by the way, a related [B]example[B] would be who is the better starcraft player...the nature of this subject was already very non-serious from the start. i don't see how it could have done such extraordinary damage that would result from this.

i guess the reason why it hurts so much is because i tried to be too caring and generous and i hoped that it would be what i would get in return.
I'm in my 30's and I can tell you something even more unpleasant. This lesson that you just learned, has applications far beyond just socialization. This CAN (and I have seen it) be true in professional circles as well.


You're what? 21? You're learning that life isn't fair. You're also learning that just because you do the right things in your books, doesn't always mean that "life" will reciprocate back the niceties to you.

You're also learning that in an argument, despite you being correct, sometimes the correct thing to do is let the other party win. (again, this is good advice in a workplace/career). You're learning that a small win of a verbal argument, one's pride, or ego can come at an even greater cost; maybe one that you would rather not lose even at the cost of a little pride or ego.



To be honest, be glad that you're learning this lesson (about learning your place) in this context rather than in a professional one. I've had colleagues jeopardize their career because they don't know how to take shit.



Not that this helps your specific situation, but who knows... maybe there's an opportunity for a bigger or "general" life lesson that one can take out of this. Again, I'm sorry it had to happen to you, but it's really not a life lesson unless it hurts.
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:15 AM   #8
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Fuck it, if ur friend decides to never contact you and choose that person over u than so be it. I had the same exact thing happen to me and only a few still contacted me but w.e I aint mad at em for chilling with that guy more than me, its not hard to make new friends haha
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:15 AM   #9
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Oh BTW, sorry to double post, but if I can shed some positives on this:

When I found myself in a situation as yours when I felt isolated, it was a time for me to grow and be independent.

There was a time where I was so dependent amongst my peers, there was a time where I was so dependent on their opinions, and how they perceive me, and how much, my opinions, my actions, my identity was based on what others expect (or want) me to be.


My time in isolation, I had learned to develop my own identity that was true to myself; Without any influences of outside parties for fear of disappointing (or losing) their acquaintanceship. I became more confident about my own thoughts or opinions as I no longer needed anyone's affirmation that my thoughts meet the status quo.

In time, people eventually gravitated to me and my social circle grew because their persona and interest was parrellel to mine. It wasn't growing because I was making mine parrallel to others for the sake of a little acquaintanceship. In the end of it all, you should become a better person and in better more suitable company. Although it just sucks that the process of growing can be painful at times.
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Old 03-22-2012, 04:10 AM   #10
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I've been having this happen to me since I was 13/14 years old. I'm 22 years old right now and it still happens. That's life man. Friends come and go, it's up to you to decide who's real and who's not. You can't go around victimizing yourself because it makes the process only harder.

The way I see it, there are two categories of friends.

1. Good Time (GT) Friends; the ones that you call when you want to go get blitzed out of your mind, hit up the club, pick up girls/guys and generally when you need a stress release by doing something lighthearted and fun. These friends do not handle serious situations well, it's hard to open up to them when shit gets real in your life.

2. Real Friends; these are the friends that have seen you when you are down and out. they're not afraid to tell you the truth and to point out if you act a fool. shit gets real and they're there, no questions asked. they make you feel safe and never self conscious. these kinds of friends are a few and far between.

Personally, I would rather have a couple real friends than a handful of good time friends. From experience, real friends will never cut you out like that without warning. They talk to you when there's an issue and you resolve it together, even if it means you decide to just spend some time apart and take a breather. I know it hurts to lose friends, and believe me, I KNOW. I've spent months and months crying over friends that I have cared about that had done me wrong. I'm always the one who reaches out and gets shot down, but truthfully, I would prefer it that way. Now I never have to wonder "hey what if I had tried to ask whats up..maybe it would be different.." People change, make mistakes, act like assholes all the time...it doesn't mean that you have to.

Recognize that you can't control the way other people act and be okay with that fact. Reflect on areas that you could improve (maybe in your case, being more assertive) and BE those changes. Trust that you're a good enough person to make new friends and have better experiences. Don't judge these people for how they acted, everyone in life is just trying to find themselves/doing the best they can. Instead, wish them love & light and move on. Be thankful for the times you all spent together and harbor no bitterness. If you hold grudges and are bitter, it will carry on in all aspects of any other relationship you may try to have. Focus on things that make you happy and how to better yourself, you will attract likewise people. Learn how to differentiate GT friends from real friends and you'll be okay. Never stop being caring and generous because you don't want new, real friends to pay for the old ones' mistakes.

Change your mindset from negative to positive and your emotions/reactions to situations will follow. Sometimes you have to lose some of that dead weight in your life to make space for better things to come.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:57 AM   #11
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You mean the friendships forged in High School aren't for life, despite the term "BFF" thrown about?
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Old 03-22-2012, 12:21 PM   #12
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People have said, at the end of your life you can count the amount of your true friends on one hand.

Friends come and go, it's a fact of life and although it sucks to hear it's the truth. People lose touch, some people grow apart, and some people just stop being friends without reasons. Sometimes you have to stop questioning why THOSE people had to end the relationship/friendship and ask yourself maybe it's something I'm doing or saying as well. Noir put it perfectly in one of his entries. Not saying this is all your fault, but just like male/female relationships there are always 2 sides to it.

If you really value them as your good friends...I say you should talk to them. Talk to the one you were closest with in the group and start from there. Don't let your pride or overthinking get in the way and be adults about it. If they choose to NOT reconnect with you to talk things over..then maybe it's better off this way.
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Old 03-22-2012, 01:50 PM   #13
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Lol, I've been there. Sort of.

For years I was closest with my highschool friends, being that I've known them for a good 10 years now. It's just the convenience and familiarity, they'll always know you best because they're your oldest friends.

But one of the guys in this group of friends is a real dbag (the kinda guy you'd bail out and do all these favors for, but he'd just keep letting you down in return) and finally one day near the end of 2010 I decided fuck this, I don't need this shit: I'm cutting this guy loose. Felt great. I called him out and told him off, never spoke to him again and honestly my life was better for it. Until I left for a year for work.

That New Years Eve, two days before I left, I only got to see half of them, because the other half felt bad for the other guy and had to spend time with him. Feels bad man. Things were okay for the next year as I worked in Ontario. I made completely new friends and had a great time, but I always knew in the back of my mind that when I came home, my friends would all be there waiting.

Well, I came home. And with the exception of two of my best friends, I almost never see those other people. They never call me out, and when I call them out, they almost always decline as they're "busy, sorry". In the last three months I've been back, I've seen them all four times maybe. These are people I used to see 1-3 times a week.

And yeah, it was lonely when I got back. It was shitty. All last year I was away, every time I talked to my friends on the phone / IM they'd always bring up "hey man... you should try and patch things up with [dbag], it makes things hard and we don't know what to do". They know he's in the wrong but what are they gonna do right? And like in your case, he happens to probably edge me out in popularity with the rest of them plus they were all hanging while I left for a year, so I end up being the one to take the hit.

Anyway in terms of getting my hs friends back, there is no happy ending there. Instead, I ended up getting closer and hanging out with the friends I made in university. I'm finding it's a lot more fun hanging out with these people as we have a lot more in common and they're a hell of a lot more mature and career oriented. Sure we haven't been friends for a decade and they don't know me inside and out, but that'll come. Ultimately I think it was better to grow up and move on to better things.

Anyway we should grab a beer and take a look at retrofitting those AP2 headlights. I'll be back in Vancouver April 1st =p
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Old 03-22-2012, 02:46 PM   #14
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Friends change overtime.. Its part of life..

Something to think about, I read from this blog - Who You Surround Yourself With, You Become - amyfabulousamyfabulous | amyfabulous


During high school, we gravitated towards certain friends due to our aspirations and interests of our youth. BFF qualifiers included a shared love for basketball or underage drinking. But then, we grew up.

Fast forward a decade. You have changed your home, your values, your career, your life. But while every aspect of your life was reassessed and updated, your friendships weren’t. Your friends consist of those whom you’ve shared a history with. But are grade school memories and Kodak moments enough?

There is a beauty of having old friends that I will not deny, but history alone is not enough to bring an old friendship into the present , and subsequently, the future. The people you surround yourself with, you become. We are all energy. If you subject yourself to peers who are negative, insecure or destructive, it will affect you. Regardless of your strength as an individual, you are not immune to a constant surrounding of negative energy or bad influence.

Your friendships, just like everything in your life, need updating. They need to be reassessed from time to time to determine if they are still working in your life. Your friends should bring out the best in you. If you are surrounded by people who bring out the worst in you, then that is a serious red flag that the friendship doesn’t fit in your life. True friends are the ones that have the courage to tell you when you’re losing your way. They care enough to have those difficult conversations that most people will avoid.

If you want to have greatness in your life, surround yourself with great people. If you strive to be a happy, fulfilled, honest, confident, empowered and principled person, surround yourself with people who are the same. Is this selfish and heartless? No, it’s not. Because if you are influenced negatively by someone, it will affect how you are with the people who love you. Once you allow a negative force to permeate your life, you hurt yourself, which ultimately affects everyone that surrounds you. In no way am I saying to ditch the people you love. You can love these people all you want. But, selecting them to be in your immediate peer group is another story.

Choose your company wisely. Be relentless with surrounding yourself with those who bring out the best in you. Your direction in life depends on it. And while you’re at it, have the courage to be a good friend to those who choose you.
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Old 03-22-2012, 03:12 PM   #15
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the only reason they ever became your friend was becus you were all in the same hs and classes, etc etc. no respect. someone told me this and it all made sense. It's times like these when they really need to show their true selfs that you realize that those so called "friends" were just mere acquaintances due to highschool
This is true. From the high school I went to, I am still friends with one person. Everyone else was as Xplicit described. Friends of convenience. Apart from my own high school, I had friends that went to Hamber, and of that group of people, I am still in touch with a bunch of them, and regularly get together with a few of them. I feel blessed to have known them for so long, and along with the good times, we've all helped each other through the tougher periods. I've known them for at least 15 years (a few, my whole life) I have no hesitation in saying that these are real friends, and will be till the day we die. Sure, people will get busy, and years may pass between visits, but from experience, I know that we'll still support each other in tough times.
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Old 03-22-2012, 05:05 PM   #16
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Went through the exact same situation recently.

One of my close friends had a problem with me for some unknown reason. And because of that, some of my other friends stopped contacting me. I don't know if he's spreading shit or whatever, but that's not the point. I do miss hanging out with all of my friends, going to the bar every weekend and such. It sucks to say, but there's the phrase "you can't fly with chickens." There comes a time when you just have to keep your head up and move on with your own life.

Adults would confront the problem and talk it through. Your friends seem to still be in high-school mode.

There's true friends, and there's just acquaintances.

Acquaintances are the people you see at parties, go for a bite with now and then, but they're the ones who wouldn't lift a finger for you.

True friends are people who would throw their lives on the line for you, drain their bank accounts for you, and would do whatever it takes to help you.

That was really hard for me to wrap my head around. After losing a good chunk of my friends for no reason, I started to realize who my "true" friends really are.

Not trying to trivialize your situation, as I am lucky enough to have my girlfriend, and some close friends I can still talk to.

Try focusing on some self-improvements, whatever that may be. Educational, financial, health, whatever. And be open to meeting new people. And really stay on the high road here. If one of these "ex-friends" happen to contact you or ask for help, just be open. Help them, and see if they wanna hang out. Don't ignore them back, or go straight to asking him what his problem is, etc.. Keep your head up and stay positive.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:21 AM   #17
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My PE teacher in high school made a statement that really stuck with me.

"High school friends are only friends cause you see each other 6 hours, five days a week. Real friends are those who share common interest and will always be there no matter how little time you spend with each other"

I have since then always thought of "real" friends as friends who you can go with out seeing for weeks or even months at a time, but can pick up exactly where you left when you see them again.

Real friends will literally give their shirt off their back to help you. They don't do it to better themselves, they do it to better you.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:54 AM   #18
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friends, I can count them on one hand. Aquaintances, I have too many to remember.

Friends have your back no matter what. the rest are decoration.
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Old 03-23-2012, 01:35 PM   #19
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you can just say fuck em and walk off. that's the easy way out.

or both parties can drop their egos and hug it out.

or if they're not willing to.

you can drop your ego and apologize no matter how unapologetic you actually feel.
you'll be the bigger guy and whatever. who cares. the feeling of uneasiness will pass with time.

and yeah, if they're just HS friends lol whatever. like someone posted above...

i realised i was only friends with a lot of HS ppl cuz i saw them everyday, and you're forced to befriend them.

when the real world opens up, you realise you get along better with a lot of other people.
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Old 03-23-2012, 06:54 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
you can just say fuck em and walk off. that's the easy way out.

or both parties can drop their egos and hug it out.

or if they're not willing to.

you can drop your ego and apologize no matter how unapologetic you actually feel.
you'll be the bigger guy and whatever. who cares. the feeling of uneasiness will pass with time.

and yeah, if they're just HS friends lol whatever. like someone posted above...

i realised i was only friends with a lot of HS ppl cuz i saw them everyday, and you're forced to befriend them.

when the real world opens up, you realise you get along better with a lot of other people.
i used to have absolutely no problem with apologizing, however i may sound like an asshole in the making but after this situation, i don't think i will apologize for stuff that i know i didn't do wrong. the other party can believe they are right, i won't argue about it because its not worth it. i was too easily apologetic in the past, placed everyone else first and myself second. in my head, what mattered the most was the people around me, but i think that has given me an extremely weak, unworthy image.
after this incident, i had to learn how to live independently and pick out the weak point of my life and personality. i have to stand up for myself like what a guy is suppose to do. like i previously said, this incident still hurts and makes me feel miserable at times but i don't feel sorry about it because well......i shouldn't feel sorry about it in the first place and this also made me improve on myself.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:34 PM   #21
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lol it's really hard to help you without knowing the details.
how you could approach the situation or your friends without apologizing or perhaps making them see it from your view. just gotta be chill out about it.
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 46_valentinor View Post
i used to have absolutely no problem with apologizing, however i may sound like an asshole in the making but after this situation, i don't think i will apologize for stuff that i know i didn't do wrong. the other party can believe they are right, i won't argue about it because its not worth it. i was too easily apologetic in the past, placed everyone else first and myself second. in my head, what mattered the most was the people around me, but i think that has given me an extremely weak, unworthy image.
after this incident, i had to learn how to live independently and pick out the weak point of my life and personality. i have to stand up for myself like what a guy is suppose to do. like i previously said, this incident still hurts and makes me feel miserable at times but i don't feel sorry about it because well......i shouldn't feel sorry about it in the first place and this also made me improve on myself.
Haha, you say that now but wait until you get married. All jokes aside, this probably something you're going to have to learn anyways as well. Again, this has more applications than just social ie.

1. Marriage: Some arguments aren't worth losing the marriage over; especially if the matter is trivial and you're arguing purely for pride and ego's sake.

2. Work: You may think your boss is wrong, or maybe you just think your idea is just better. It doesn't matter. Right or wrong, at the end of the day, your superiors are always right (even if they're not).

4. Customer Service: (I learned this in insurance) It doesn't matter who fucked up, clients will ALWAYS try to pass the blame on you; as a professional, you have to learn to swallow your pride and be non-confrontational; even at the cost of an apology even if you weren't in the wrong. This is especially true if all it takes to save a "big-time portfolio/client" is a small 5-letter word.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
lol it's really hard to help you without knowing the details.
how you could approach the situation or your friends without apologizing or perhaps making them see it from your view. just gotta be chill out about it.
I agree, and to be honest, apologizing isn't as undignifying as people seem to think it is.

To the OP:
Firstly, apologizing isn't a sign of inferiority. It's also a sign that despite how strongly you feel about your POV, you have and/or are ready to understand, listen, taken into account and at least give some credit to your opposing POV. The point is, you've listened and you've understood.

This momentary surrender means you've just opened the door to a conversation; a conversation that's inquisitive in nature (finding/discussing more and learning each other's POV) rather than a combative nature (arguing whose POV is better than the other [right vs wrong]). At the end of the converstation, nobody has to be right, nobody has to be wrong. Everybody just has to "get" what the other person is saying, and "get" why they think how they think.

This learning of each other can yield many things. It can patch a broken friendship together, and the fact that you know a little bit more about each other (how they think, where they come from, etc) can mean that you become even closer and stronger as friends, as now you know them far more intimately than you did before.


Secondly, an apology doesn't mean you're wrong. Apologizing to someone you've just had a confrontation can also mean:

1. You're sorry that things are unpleasant at the moment
2. You're sorry that there was a miscommunication, maybe you hadn't explained your end as good as you thought it was; or maybe you hadn't understood the other as good as you thought you did.
3. Or maybe you're just sorry that you just lost someone's friendship.

The point is, saying sorry isn't as simple as: letting the other party win.



TBH, I love that you brought this topic up and started a thread. It's really funny how complex people make a simple 5-letter word ("sorry") to be when really, I just want to say it's not at all.

Coles Notes:

1. Sorry doesn't mean you're wrong
2. Saying sorry isn't undignifying
3. Sorry can open doors you've just closed or others have closed for you.

Last edited by Noir; 03-25-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:04 AM   #23
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its'all good at lease with all this free time you can put a grasp on life and do productive things and meet new people.
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