WHAT is the legal way to notify a tenant that they have to move?

[Duff Beer]

Originally Posted by Acura604

long story short, i'd like to have my current tenant removed...no grounds for eviction..i just want to allocate the basement suite space for something else.

What is the proper way?

The proper way, and ethical way, is to wait until the end of lease term and say goodbye.

[Acura604]

well..this took a turn for the worst.

1. tenant's wife decides to allow her sister to stay for a week.. with a dog. (did not ask permission and there is a no pet clause in the rental). I inquire about it..they get offended and tell me they are moving out end of June. This happened June 1st...they didn't pay the rent either.

2. asked when rent could be paid, they said they are expecting a cheque on the 5th and will pay it then. 5th goes by, nothing. i issue a official eviction notice stating they have 5 days to pay the rent from date of notice OR move out within 10 days of the notice.

3. i talk this over with the tenant..she's stressed out because apparently her workplace did not pay her in full - error in the payroll and she's got the union fighting for her. the husband is broke.. no job..no cash. ( a lie? i have no idea )


SO.. my question NOW is.... the rent remains unpaid and the 10day deadline rolls around.. what happens if they dont bother to move out? i'm aware of escalating it with the RTB and applying for whatever but anyone experience this?

I've been very diplomatic and understanding with the tenant.. but business is business. no one lives for free.

Again, it may not play out this way as they still have till sunday to pay the full rent...but what would you do?

[murd0c]

I would be nice about it right now and wait for Sunday. With them moving out at the end of the month already there is no point in pissing them off. At least you are getting what you want and if they don't pay you at least have there damage depoist you can apply towards the rent.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Acura604

well..this took a turn for the worst.

1. tenant's wife decides to allow her sister to stay for a week.. with a dog. (did not ask permission and there is a no pet clause in the rental). I inquire about it..they get offended and tell me they are moving out end of June. This happened June 1st...they didn't pay the rent either.

2. asked when rent could be paid, they said they are expecting a cheque on the 5th and will pay it then. 5th goes by, nothing. i issue a official eviction notice stating they have 5 days to pay the rent from date of notice OR move out within 10 days of the notice.

3. i talk this over with the tenant..she's stressed out because apparently her workplace did not pay her in full - error in the payroll and she's got the union fighting for her. the husband is broke.. no job..no cash. ( a lie? i have no idea )


SO.. my question NOW is.... the rent remains unpaid and the 10day deadline rolls around.. what happens if they dont bother to move out? i'm aware of escalating it with the RTB and applying for whatever but anyone experience this?

I've been very diplomatic and understanding with the tenant.. but business is business. no one lives for free.

Again, it may not play out this way as they still have till sunday to pay the full rent...but what would you do?

I don't fuck around with the money. You pay to play, or you move the fuck out. I don't get this thing where people are months behind on rent. What, you think they are suddenly going to get a windfall of cash? No. They are going to pile up a massive I.O.U then bail in the middle of the night. And they aren't going to steam the carpets for you either.

Assuming worst case scenario(as I assume thats what you are playing out) they don't make any moves to move out.

After the last you can pay day ends, you then go to the branch and apply for an order of possession. All this means is the tenancy is in distress and you can now take action to use more force in eviction.

But there are a few catches.

You can't actually use force.

If they are still there, and haven't moved, you have to call a bailiff. You are going to love them, as they cost a minimum of $1000. What do they do? Enforce the order of possession.

If they aren't there on d-day, but their shit is..you can't just throw it out. If it has a value over a certain amount($500 I think) you have to store it. Yay! For 3 fucking months. And you have to give it back if requested.

So now is really not the time to be a dick. Be firm, be assertive, but you REALLY want to keep that "I'm on your side" vibe, even though you so obviously are not.

That is our secret sauce. I've never had to execute an order of possession and have never had a bailiff for the simple reason that we can cuddle up nice and close and help you through this difficult transition.

Then write about the experience on revscene

[dinosaur]

Let me know if you end up using the 10-day eviction notice and she still hasn't paid.

She will owe you June rent AND July rent for failure to give one month notice (yes, even when you evict, they are still on the hook).

I can PM you all the details on how to do it so I don't bore everyone here.

[Psykopathik]

post a copy anyways, Dino

will be a good reference for others

[smoothie.]

^ +1

[dinosaur]

Alright...I will make up an example.

Tenant is late on rent. You issue a "10-Day" eviction notice (note- unless you are handing it directly to the tenant, they get 3 extra days. All the details are on the form, but in reality, it is a 13 day eviction notice.)

You play nice with the tenant: "look, I'm sorry...I have to do this...I need to protect myself...no hard feelings...it is just the way it goes. lets make this as smooth as possible. also, let me get your forwarding address, so i can send you would mail and your security deposit check...if you dont have a place now, just give me a family member's address" blah blah blah. Technically, you can not keep the security/damage/cleaning deposit unless they you given you permission IN WRITING unless you have filed a case with the tenancy branch. Basically, when you file a case, everything is put on hold.

Option 1:

If you are concerned that they are not going to move, the minute you give them the eviction notice, go to the tenancy branch and file an "Order of Possession". Along with that order of possession, you file to keep their damage deposit (because you know they won't clean), order them to pay the rent for June....and the rent for July as they failed to give you proper notice and order them to pay for your $50 filing fee.

So, we have:
June rent: $800
July rent: $800
Damage deposit: $400
Filing fee: $50
TOTAL: $2050.00

When you file an Order of Possession, the hearing date is usually within 2-3 weeks. If you do not file an Order, it can take months (this is why you need a forwarding address).

Note: IF you have been able to rent the apt for July (meaning, they actually left when there were suppose to), you are not allowed to ask them to pay for the missing rent- meaning, you are not allowed to "double dip". However, IF the new tenant is only paying $700 b/c you could not find someone for $800, they are responsible for that lost $100. Moreover, if this evicted tenant is still on a lease and have broken it by being evicted, they are responsible for ALL loss of rental revenue. So...if they still have 6 months left in their lease, and you lose $100/month b/c they left....they owe you $600.00.

When originally filing, you fill out the form as a “worst case scenario”. Throw everything on there. When you have the actually hearing, it can be verbally amended, ie: they ACTUALLY cleaned the apt and therefore, you do not need the damage deposit. You can always take things away…but you can not add them during the hearing.

The branch will send the tenant a letter detailing the time and date of the hearing…you will be sent one too. 5 business days before the hearing, you are to submit your evidence to the branch AND the tenant (again, this is why you need an address if they have left). This is what you submit:
-Copy of their lease/tenancy agreement
-Copy of the 10-day eviction letter
-Photos of any damage and/or DETAILED photos of the un-cleaned unit (if applicable)
-Receipts for cleaning: cleaning supplies, drapery cleaning, carpet cleaning, etc PLUS your time (or the receipt from the cleaning company…usually $15-20/hr).
-A letter from you detailing the turn of events. Include dates/times, conversations, details of their rental agreement, etc. Basically a methodology of how you came to where you are at now.
-A break-down of the financials (basically, just what I listed above….june rent, july rent, etc.)

This package, like I said before, it given to the tenancy branch AND the tenant. Everything is to be numbered (including photos), professional, clean, and easy to read. No emotion, just specifics. Tenants get emotional, landlords do not. This is a business.

Hearing is conducted like a conference call…you call in and are on hold until the hearing starts. You are sworn in, judge clarifies what the monetary amounts are and what the hearing pertains to, each have a chance to make a statement (basically a quick overview of what your letter says), the judge will ask questions, and then you can re-but each other’s statements or claims. The judge will also ask if you still require an Order of Possession. Yes if they are still there, No if they are not.

You can guarantee that tenant will get all worked up and emotional….use the term, “yeah, but…” a lot and as a last ditch effort to win some sympathy will say something like, “well, I never had hot water and the heating never worked”. The judge will kindly stop them and tell them it is not relevant and move on. Keep quiet, only speak when asked to, and refer the judge as “Sir” or “Mam” and to the tenants as “Mr. Lastname” or “Miss. Lastname”. You want to let the tenant go crazy. It is pretty damn funny…I have had tears twice and it was hard not to giggle.

Within 10-14 days you will receive the decision by mail, but if you have done everything correctly, it should be for what you wanted (I have even had the judges say it at the end of the hearing in not so many words). It should be fairly cut and dry:

June rent: without a doubt this will be awarded to you
July rent: depending on when the tenant left, at minimum, you will receive ½ (but I have always been given the full month).
If this is a case of lost rental revenue (whether it be $100 or $600): without a doubt, this will be awarded to you. This issue is stated VERY clearly in the tenancy laws.
Cleaning/damage deposit: This is where the judge can show his own judgement. If you pay $200 for carpet cleaning, he may think it should have only been $100. Same goes for cleaning…if you say it took you 8 hours at $20/hr…he may find that excessive and only give you ½ of that. In the bigger picture, it doesn’t really matter.
$50 filing fee: without a doubt, this will be awarded to you.

You can go about collecting the fees several ways. You can communicate with them via email/text/phone to arrange payment…it is up to you whether you want to do post-dated checks or one lump sum. You can file to have them pay the tenancy branch, and the branch will issue to you their payment. You can file a small claims case should they refuse to pay. Fuck, show up at their work if you want…mine have always paid. Sometimes I will allow post-dated checks as I know finances are tight, etc. Its depends how you want to play it.


that is a lot to read. there are other variables that can come into play, such as the tenant NOT leaving and having to deal with bailiffs, recouping those costs, etc...

i'd be happy to answer any questions

[yoall]

long read, but helpful.

Thank you.

[Acura604]

Thanks Dino and Gridlock...that's some good solid info on how to carry this out... i really dont want it to get there. I just cant imagine it though.. .here we have a couple in their late 20s/early 30s..with a 3yr old and living in my suite...unable to pay the rent. I've been a renter before and i always knew my responsibilites and that was when i was single... but with a family? now i know.. if they have no money, they have NO money and some things like food will come first .. i just cant help thinking.. "aren't they embarrassed?..no shame?" ... mind you, i've heard stories of renters who do this continually to live for free for as long as they can. All i want is for them to leave and I expect I'll have to put in some work in the suite but am prepared to do so. I'm almost tempted to PAY THEM to leave!

[dinosaur]

Dude, I have little to no sympathy. Yes, there are always circumstances that warrant it, but overall...its always a bullshit excuse.

The 1st of the month comes....wait for it....EVERY FUCKING MONTH! Don't act like it is a surprise that rent is due. Also, what it is the 1st and you look in your bank account and see there is no money...don't act so fucking shocked that the rent fairy didn't stick some in over night!

I have no sympathy for people who wait to tell me they have no money until AFTER I go knocking on their door or issuing eviction letters. WTF?! You'd think I'd just forget it this money?

If you know you are going to be late with rent....tell me. Not on the 31st, 1st, or 2nd. Tell me when you realize. I will give you options.

When I have to ask for it, that is when I get pissed.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

Dude, I have little to no sympathy. Yes, there are always circumstances that warrant it, but overall...its always a bullshit excuse.

The 1st of the month comes....wait for it....EVERY FUCKING MONTH! Don't act like it is a surprise that rent is due. Also, what it is the 1st and you look in your bank account and see there is no money...don't act so fucking shocked that the rent fairy didn't stick some in over night!

I have no sympathy for people who wait to tell me they have no money until AFTER I go knocking on their door or issuing eviction letters. WTF?! You'd think I'd just forget it this money?

If you know you are going to be late with rent....tell me. Not on the 31st, 1st, or 2nd. Tell me when you realize. I will give you options.

When I have to ask for it, that is when I get pissed.

My favorite was toothy in 207 that managed to avoid us for days and then finally come to the door with cash, all proud to have it in and think I'm just going to smile and take it.

It gets easier to deal with these things as people use and abuse the same excuses.

I get Acura's point, like, am I taking food off the table. The only thing is, food/shelter and clothing are defined as the three true needs in life. You can get caught up very easily in everyone's personal drama. The previous manager at our main building did. As a result, paying rent on time was a foreign concept for people. Our first month, with 5 vacant units we had 6 people that hadn't paid rent out of 25. Those stats are horrible. Gave notes to the 6, 10 day pay to stay's to 2 and evicted 1. That was the first month.

If you are worried that you are taking food off their table, you will succeed in taking it off yours.

My best advice I received when we started this was that the assholes know the rules better than you ever will. Dino spent a lot of time reading the rules to equalize that advantage, but the players know the game. They will use, in no particular order...playing dumb, tugging heart strings, passive techniques and just plain ignorance to get what they want.

We counter all that with good cop/bad cop. If one of us feels too close to the situation, we tag the other in. Occasionally, some people just need to hear it straight...call them on their shit and re-prioritize that list of bills. We purposefully keep the people we deal with separate so that the other can be removed from the situation. Thankfully, as we have increased the rental stock, and put in good people, we have to rely on these games far less.

[Acura604]

UPDATE

So the 10th came and went...no rent. It is the 14th today and I see them packing up their shiz into a uhaul. I don't know condition of suite but am prepared to get it professionally cleaned. Just glad it didn't involve the other BS. Next tenant will be screened very carefully.

[Gridlock]

Get a forwarding address!

Tell them you have to, legally return sec.deposit, or forward mail or what ever the fuck...they owe you rent buddy...free money is being packed in that u-haul.

As of right now, not even including the condition of the suite, they owe you June's rent money and July. Living there or not.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Acura604

well..this took a turn for the worst.

1. tenant's wife decides to allow her sister to stay for a week.. with a dog. (did not ask permission and there is a no pet clause in the rental). I inquire about it..they get offended and tell me they are moving out end of June. This happened June 1st...they didn't pay the rent either.

2. asked when rent could be paid, they said they are expecting a cheque on the 5th and will pay it then. 5th goes by, nothing. i issue a official eviction notice stating they have 5 days to pay the rent from date of notice OR move out within 10 days of the notice.

3. i talk this over with the tenant..she's stressed out because apparently her workplace did not pay her in full - error in the payroll and she's got the union fighting for her. the husband is broke.. no job..no cash. ( a lie? i have no idea )


SO.. my question NOW is.... the rent remains unpaid and the 10day deadline rolls around.. what happens if they dont bother to move out? i'm aware of escalating it with the RTB and applying for whatever but anyone experience this?

I've been very diplomatic and understanding with the tenant.. but business is business. no one lives for free.

Again, it may not play out this way as they still have till sunday to pay the full rent...but what would you do?

If your agreement with them specific said no pets allow and they bring a pet in, could u like kick them out?

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

If your agreement with them specific said no pets allow and they bring a pet in, could u like kick them out?

Yes.

Ideally you would give them a warning letter stating that they have broken the residential tenancy agreement and if they would like to avoid eviction, they will need to ratify the situation. If they don't, you can give them a 30-day eviction notice based on a violation of the residential tenancy agreement.

Or, if you don't mind them having a pet, you can amend the agreement and collect a pet deposit (1/2 months rent).

[Acura604]

Checked out the suite. These pigs never cleaned! Stove had crap caked on. 3 fist sized holes in the wall where they mounted a flat screen to pull/hide wires through. Left all their trash and junk behind.

He wouldn't give me a forwarding address but I have the phone no. of where they are staying ( with his mom ) as well as his license plate. I'm thinking small claims but no address and reverse ph number doesn't provide address online. And i know where his wife whore works. options?

[Gridlock]

Options:

Well, of course they didn't clean.

Let's go kick some ass.

You don't go small claims, you go residential tenancy branch. You need to file a dispute, and what you are looking for is to keep the security deposit, and 2 months rent, june and july.

But we need an address with which to serve them.

I'd serve the bitch at work. Take a witness with you that can write a letter to the effect that it was handed to her in person. You could try calling in a week or two saying you have what looks like an important piece of mail, what is your address, I'll send it over.

You'll have to serve them the first time with the documents from the branch. Then, before your case is heard, you need to send them documentation of your evidence. Assuming they play it right, they ignore the whole thing. You'l automatically win, but then you need to take that victory to small claims, meaning you need to serve them again-so we need an address, or means of delivery that will remain open and viable. Otherwise, they will show up to these proceedings and start actively taking part.

First, before you touch anything, you take pictures of everything. Don't focus on just the amount of the security deposit, go for everything.

You are allowed to charge for your labour if you do it yourself, or the cost from someone to do it.

You are looking for the following:

1. Drywall repair. Couple hours. Patching, filling, priming and painting holes takes time.
2. Cleaning obviously. I usually take 2 hours to completely clean a stove to like-new condition.
3. Carpet cleaning. That's good for about $125. The tenant MUST clean the carpet upon move out
4. Junk removal.

Then you are looking for June's rent. That's for not paying for June. Then you are looking for July's rent, because it is unreasonable to expect that you can have all this done in 2 weeks and re-rent. If you can, you have to though. Tenants seem to think that being evicted is like a tenancy bankruptcy, you are just done.

Dino went to arbitration with a girl who thought that. She had to make payment arrangements to pay off a $700 debt. Not a huge amount for us, or the building owners, but huge for her.

It was sweet.

[Mr.HappySilp]

** sigh good thing all the tenant we have are pretty nice.But one tenant didn't really cleanr the carpert.......... but did pay use to do it which was fine by us. But then again I become friends with most of them and visit them frequency............

Just had a family moved in and man their kid is so funny! Everytime he sees me or my dad he would run staright to us and wanted us to pick him up =D From his mom it is becasue his dad is always off shore working so I guess he wants the daddy feelings from us. Is hard to find good tenants like that these days.

[dinosaur]

I can safely say that %90 of our tenants are great. There weren't always like that as when we take over buildings, you can always tell the previous managers didn't care and we are left to clean up the mess. But, with time they all end up fucking up and having to leave one way or another...we always replace with good people. We are lucky that it is not as personal to us as renting a basement suite, but we still have to live in the same building as some of these people.

Personally, I have been lucky with my townhouse. 3 out of the 4 tenants I have had in there have been fantastic! Can't really complain about that...

[Not really racist!]

I think Grid and Dino both deserve a lot of props for the advice they give here

[dinosaur]

wow, thank you!

always happy to help