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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 04-12-2012, 01:45 AM   #1
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Cop took insurance papers

I'm not gonna jump into this conclusions I have no idea what was going on in this cop's head, I will just present the facts and I would like to know what to do.

My brother just called me an hour ago said cop pulled him over did the typical procedure, license insurance papers etc... anyway he didn't get ticketed or nothing, it was just your typical profiling road stop that I told him he would be getting from cops when he tinted his car and made it stand out.
So basically the cop never gave him the insurance papers back, he said he kept pleading with him telling him "hey I need my papers back you still have them" so the cop got pretty annoyed and basically told him "fck off I already gave them back to you" and left it at that

bro had no choice but to leave the scene, so my first thought was look at the ticket, find out cops name and what station he's at so you can go make a formal complaint, since there is no other logical way to deal with this bs anymore...
But no ticket was given so he has no way of finding out who the cop is, my second suggestion was for him to call ICBC first thing in the morning and make them aware of the situation and then go down to his insurance office and have them print out another set of papers.
Is that the right course of action ?
I mean I can't imagine at all why a cop would willingly just take someones insurance papers, for what reason ? makes no sense to me, I don't understand what happened
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:52 AM   #2
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Unless the papers were required for some sort of investigation there would be no reason to seize the registration papers. It is possible that the papers got mislaid inside the Police vehicle and are not visible to the Cop for some reason (fell under/between a seat, on the floor, behind the MDT????) and he/she believes that they gave them back....or the other option is that the papers were given back and your brother mislaid them himself? Both cases the person could honestly be mistaken. Remember, you were not there and are getting second hand info from him. To quote you..." it was just your typical profiling road stop that I told him he would be getting from cops when he tinted his car and made it stand out. I'm wondering if this had anything to do with some sort of attitude being displayed on either side?



I suggest that your brother (why are you dealing with this for him BTW?) contact the particular Police force, explain the circumstances and ask the Watch Commander to check with the Members and get the one that stopped you to search his/her vehicle closely.

I had a DL slide down inside the cover of a siren switch box one time and had to spend about 1/2 an hour tearing the car apart to find it. It was completely out of sight and took a lot of looking on my part. Had I not found it I was going to be personally on the hook for the replacement cost.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:42 PM   #3
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yea he just came by today told me it seemed like the cop at first seemed like he really believed he gave him the papers back, but once my brother continued insisting that no his papers weren't given back to him, the cop got annoyed and basically told my brother to leave the scene and go about his night. It was just a misunderstanding, but it's not a big deal whatever, cop will just find the papers in his squad car one day toss'em in the garbage and my brother will go to his insurance office get new ones printed out. Bit of a unnecessary hassle but it is what it is.

he comes to me for advice because I have a lot of experience with this... I been gettin profiled and pulled over for no reason for years. Just last year alone I was pulled over like 10 times, and out of those only twice did I get ticketed because I actually did something wrong (expired license, license plate was cut) and the other cases it was your textbook profile pullover "Who are you, where are you coming from, where are you going, what do you do for work, etc.....
And when I was my brothers age I used to get really pissed off and jaw back at the cop when that would happen but now I know it's better to just answer the questions and get the hell outta there, and my brother is learning to do the same thing and listen to the officers instead of talking back. Basically told him even if they're 200% in the wrong you're never gonna win, just shut up let them yap away and you'll get outta there quicker. But it's very very hard to do that when you know you did absolutely nothing wrong yet you're being treated like a guilty party, I lost my temper the other month finally after years of silence and ended up getting my car towed because of it.

He had his car searched few months ago in Surrey when he was livin there, few squad cars came down searched vehicle without any warrant or anything, when he asked why they were doing that, they said he was looking really suspicious like he was under the influence of substances.... what it really was, dude was on his way home from the gym all sweaty and pale from a hard work out, and when he offered to prove exactly where he was and when he was there (with his gym pass and phone # to front desk to confirm) they refused and proceeded with the search anyway


I understand why these profiling stops are a big part of their job, but I'm afraid that fairly often the wrong people get caught up in it. And it just shows how desperate the situation is in this town to decrease gang violence, I mean I can literally walk into a busy downtown restaurant and shoot somebody in front of dozens of witnesses and get away with it, but I can't drive a nice car without getting hassled by the cops all the time.
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #4
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Cops word is king. whatchu gonna do? :s
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #5
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Post a pic of your car...
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:26 AM   #6
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I'm reminded of this for some reason???

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=far+si...9,r:3,s:0,i:72
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Old 04-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #7
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Nothing wrong with profiling except when it is based on officer bias surrounding race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, religion, economic status, background or age.

Profiling based on the presentation of a vehicle... not in that list. When did cars get added to the Charter anyways?
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Old 04-15-2012, 11:08 PM   #8
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kinda related
serious question
then is profiling based on the presentation of a person a-okay?
ex) ed hardy, wife beater, baggy pants/shirt, blings, tattoos, etc?
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:53 AM   #9
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They may not admit it, but,

YES.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:55 AM   #10
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They say its not profiling but it will always be lol not much we can do...except stop driving like a douche bag/look like a douche bag/ etc etc
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:55 AM   #11
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Part of security/policing/prevention is profiling. Obviously there will always be exceptions, and those exceptions may feel offended.

however, Freedom and Security do not exist on separate scales. They are on the same sliding scale. More of one will mean less of the other.

I can understand both sides, and sometimes I get profiled too.

But I've kept my shit clean for almost the last decade. Outside of my car, there's not a whole helluva lot the cops can do to me.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:08 AM   #12
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kinda related
serious question
then is profiling based on the presentation of a person a-okay?
ex) ed hardy, wife beater, baggy pants/shirt, blings, tattoos, etc?

I had a complaint laid against me for profiling. Investigation took several months. I impounded (mandatory) a vehicle being driven by a prohibited driver who had been arrested twice before for the same reason. He produced no picture ID at all and other identification was reluctantly provided. Took physical descriptors...height, weight, eye and hair colour...and on the impound form there is a section to describe visible tattoos..his left arm had several very distinctive ones and I listed them as required on the form. When I ran a criminal record check (very extensive) to confirm his identity, they listed his tattoos.

His complaint was that I profiled him only because of his tats. I had to wait almost 6 months for the complaints process to finally finish and when it did, my boss sent him a letter saying it was completely unfounded but we apologized for the distress he felt when he found himself in the situation.
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Old 04-16-2012, 12:09 PM   #13
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doesn't the saying go..

if it walks like a duck
looks like a duck
quacks like a duck

it must be a friken duck
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Old 04-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
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"Profiling" is one of those terms that gets tossed around as being something "evil", but is rarely used accurately. A cop pulling over a riced-out car is not "profiling". A cop pulling over someone creeping down a back road in the middle of the night is not "profiling". I'm sure zulu has seen instances of speeders complaining they were "profiled" ("He treated me like a SPEEDER, just because I was speeding - that's PROFILING!")

A cop randomly pulling you over and asking for your idents is not (necessarily) profiling you. Checking that everyone on the road is allowed to be on the road is a normal part of the job. I was heading out to Iona Beach late late one night to take some pictures - cop pulled me over to check idents, just because, well, it's his job, and it's unusual for people to be going out there late late at night. Bone stock '87 Accord, nothing racy or stand-out-ish about me or the car... just checked that everything was on the up-and-up and sent me on my way.
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:16 AM   #15
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meh, my second post I was just explaining why I'm the go to guy for anyone that knows me when it comes to dealing with cops, guess I went a little too far with the explanation of why I'm that guy. But it wasn't my intention to turn this thread into a discussion on profiling or anti police type comments.

But since we're on the subject, I will say this.... most of the stops I've been subjected too are borderline harassment, and that's the truth... I don't need to exaggerate nor embellish any facts, I'm just calling it what it is....
And that's because when I get pulled over, it almost always goes much further than your typical stop where they just check your info and leave it at that. I actually miss the days when I used to get pulled over and just asked for license info and let go within 5 minutes.

heh, funny story one time though straight out of a comedy, at a roadblock when I was a teen I actually had one of the cops call my mom right there on the spot because I was being kind of rude and non talkative enough (not enough yes sir, no sir i suppose)
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Old 04-18-2012, 11:50 AM   #16
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Whenever I get pulled over I have to wait for backup to arrive. lol I was told there was note on my file that I'm dangerous or something like that. Not sure if it's bullshit or what but I always have to wait for a 2nd car to show up. Only time I haven't is when I've been pulled over in a remote spot and backup isn't readily available.

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Old 04-18-2012, 01:37 PM   #17
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Whenever I get pulled over I have to wait for backup to arrive. lol I was told there was note on my file that I'm dangerous or something like that. Not sure if it's bullshit or what but I always have to wait for a 2nd car to show up. Only time I haven't is when I've been pulled over in a remote spot and backup isn't readily available.

Berz out.
maybe the cops saw ur revscene avatar .. jk

back to topic, did he get his papers back or complain?
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:14 AM   #18
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"Harassment" is another one of those words, like "profiling", that's grossly abused and mis-used, and that's the truth. Grow a pair and just stop whining about it already. "Whaaaaaa, Mommy, that cop was so MEAN to meeeeeeee!"
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:35 AM   #19
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but Berz you're Fast & Furious and you know it bro, Tool no point of complaining, waste of his time, he just got new papers printed out at the insurance office.

and yea Soundy that's your opinion good for you, and I don't throw words around like some immature kid you're insinuating I am but nice try. And being handcuffed on the side of the road numerous times only to be let go without a ticket or an explanation, or being yelled at by detectives and threatened to be taken to jail for refusing to answer personal questions, I'm pretty sure most level headed people would consider that harassment.
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:48 AM   #20
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It's amazing how people like yourself, obviously innocent of any charges, always seem to find different Cops who give you a hard time for things you never do, time after time...and keep doing it. Maybe there is some reason for all these different Cops at different times and places, to keep doing this? Maybe the kind of people you hang with, places/time you hang out in, the way you drive, or maybe there is a conspiracy to harass on you for absoloutely no reason, repeatedly? If that is true then you have my full support and something needs to be done about it.
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Old 04-20-2012, 01:54 PM   #21
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^ Well what you bring up is precisely the reason I been upset all these years, I mean I've had 1 speeding ticket in the last 10 years, so it ain't the way I drive... and outside of work, literally the only things I ever do is hang out with my little elementary school age brothers and wifey, and play sports with my friends at the local rec.
I don't go downtown, I don't club, I don't associate with people known to police... I mean I don't do anything that warrants the treatment I get when I'm pulled over except one thing.... I drive the car that I drive, that's the only thing that's fckin me over

And yea something is being done about it, in the last few months I've been driving my mom's or dad's car almost all the time, that's my temporary solution until i get a new car, and it feels so good to drive around freely.... when I hop in my car I almost get a knot in my stomach when I hit up major cop zones like Kingsway or anywhere close to downtown, I drive that car around feelin like I got 10 kilos in the trunk, with that type of anxiety.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #22
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:20 PM   #23
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^ Well what you bring up is precisely the reason I been upset all these years, I mean I've had 1 speeding ticket in the last 10 years, so it ain't the way I drive... and outside of work, literally the only things I ever do is hang out with my little elementary school age brothers and wifey, and play sports with my friends at the local rec.
I don't go downtown, I don't club, I don't associate with people known to police... I mean I don't do anything that warrants the treatment I get when I'm pulled over except one thing.... I drive the car that I drive, that's the only thing that's fckin me over

And yea something is being done about it, in the last few months I've been driving my mom's or dad's car almost all the time, that's my temporary solution until i get a new car, and it feels so good to drive around freely.... when I hop in my car I almost get a knot in my stomach when I hit up major cop zones like Kingsway or anywhere close to downtown, I drive that car around feelin like I got 10 kilos in the trunk, with that type of anxiety.
For some reason, this came to mind..."The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." — Albert Einstein

I spent almost 3 decades stopping cars and dealing with people at roadside. I never profiled anyone but when "something felt wrong"...it almost always was wrong. Yes I occasionally misjudged the situation and was not correct in my alalysis of the "indicators" but not very often. Most Cops work that way and most are correct most of the time.

I find it difficult to believe that so many Cops are so wrong so many times when dealing with you. Maybe you need to take a close look and try to see what is attracting them?

And being handcuffed on the side of the road numerous times only to be let go without a ticket or an explanation, or being yelled at by detectives and threatened to be taken to jail for refusing to answer personal questions,

To be repeatedly handcuffed and spoken to in the way you say, for no reason at all just does not match with my own experiences. I only handcuffed people for either officer safety concerns or if they were being arrested. If you slap cuffs on somone you had better be able to articulate your reasons and they had better be justified. I just can't imagine being able to justify handcuffing someone or yelling at them and threatening to take them to jail just because they drove a particular car.

Last edited by zulutango; 04-20-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #24
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IMO profiling is just a PR term for justifying prejudice.
We all think our shit don't stink, and there is always pride in one's "group".
Zulutango, you may be by the book and a great cop; as are a lot of cops.
But how is it so difficult to believe that so many cops are so wrong so many times?
It follows basic logic, that assholes who lack any real intellectual prowess to achieve positions of power in the private sector, would be attracted to a job (relatively easier to obtain) that allows them to assert power over people.
Once again, this may come off like I'm hating cops, I'm not; I think majority of the police force are individuals who are in it truly to better society. However, thinking that it's impossible for a cop not to be a saint is silly.

Personally, I've experienced comments of racist nature as well as comments slighting my wealth (and I'm not even that wealthy! my car is a dime a dozen in Vancouver). Because of these comments, I can only imagine their motivation behind choosing to pull over me. But mostly, the officers I've encountered have been courteous and respectful.
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:47 PM   #25
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But how is it so difficult to believe that so many cops are so wrong so many times?

What you are suggesting is that many different individual Cops at many different times and under many different circumstances all came to the same racist profiling decision to handcuff you and threaten you with absoloutely no basis for their actions?

You also say that the " majority of the police force are individuals who are in it truly to better society...and you say..."But mostly, the officers I've encountered have been courteous and respectful. "
but the bad ones keep finding you ? That is why many many find it difficult to believe that, given the law of averages, you keep finding so many bad ones all the time and everywhere you go. Not saying you are wrong but it defies any logic that I can come up with.
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