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Old 04-28-2012, 05:30 PM   #1
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73% of Teachers will not take part in Extracurricular Activities due to Bill 22

I'm not exactly sure what Bill 22 is, but this is off the BCTF website. Bear in mind that the BCTF is extremely biased and I can not guarantee the validity of the following information or the exclusion of some information.

BCTF > Bill 22 hurts students and attacks teachers
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BCTF > 73% of teachers vote to adopt resistance strategy on Bill 22
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73% of teachers vote to adopt resistance strategy on Bill 22

A decisive 73% of teachers have voted in favour of a resistance strategy to oppose Bill 22, the controversial Education Improvement Act. In a province-wide vote conducted April 17–19, 2012, a total of 21,625 teachers voted yes and 7,846 voted no.

BCTF President Susan Lambert characterized the result as a strong vote of confidence in the action plan crafted by delegates to the BCTF’s Annual General Meeting in March.

“This vote sends a powerful message to government that they must rethink Bill 22, listen to the concerns of teachers, respect our rights, and invest in services to students,” Lambert said. “Teachers are united in opposition to this terrible piece of legislation, the twentieth bill passed by the BC Liberals since 2001 targeting teachers’ professional and labour rights. We simply have to take a strong stand.”

Lambert noted that Bill 22 virtually wipes out class-size and composition limits. Coming into a school year when public education will face a $100 million funding short fall, learning conditions will undoubtedly suffer. “How can anyone teach to individual student needs under such conditions?” she asked.

Lambert acknowledged that the vote was emotional for teachers because the decision to withdraw from extra-curricular activities is so wrenching. “Teachers struggle with this because these activities bring so much joy to our engagement with students. We know this will mean the loss of some highly-valued activities, and we sincerely regret that. But we have to look at the bigger picture and the longer term,” she said.

The plan also calls for other actions including: mounting a public awareness campaign to educate British Columbians about the impact of Bill 22 and to mobilize opposition to it; the possibility of another future vote on a full withdrawal of services; and working in advance of the May 2013 election to bring in a new government that will repeal Bill 22.

Lambert said that one of the most corrosive elements of Bill 22 for teachers is its mock mediation process. “It adds insult to injury by requiring teachers to be complicit in the stripping of basic rights and protections in our collective agreement,” Lambert said.

The BCTF has made application to the Labour Relations Board to quash the appointment of Dr. Charles Jago as mediator due to clear apprehension of bias. The teachers are awaiting a ruling on a government challenge of the LRB’s jurisdiction before a decision can be made on the substance of the complaint.
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:32 PM   #2
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From what I've read I do not support Bill 22. I also believe the teachers are put in an extremely difficult position in regards to Bill 22 being passed and this strategy of not participating in extracurricular activities.

I'll be the first one to bash on the BCTF and it's teachers on how they complain about everything, especially their wages. But, this issue gets to me.

I don't know where to stand. I understand if they don't do something drastic like this, the govt will continue to just bully them around. And by doing this, the kids suffer.

I think I will stay neutral on the subject until I actually figure out what bill 22 is.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:06 PM   #3
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:57 PM   #4
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From what I've read I do not support Bill 22. I also believe the teachers are put in an extremely difficult position in regards to Bill 22 being passed and this strategy of not participating in extracurricular activities.

I'll be the first one to bash on the BCTF and it's teachers on how they complain about everything, especially their wages. But, this issue gets to me.

I don't know where to stand. I understand if they don't do something drastic like this, the govt will continue to just bully them around. And by doing this, the kids suffer.

I think I will stay neutral on the subject until I actually figure out what bill 22 is.
I feel the same way, especially that part.

I get that these bills probably aren't in the best interest of the kids...but I also feel the teachers aren't acting in the best interest of the kids either. There are so many grade 12 students right now getting the short end of the stick and having a difficult time applying for post secondary with all this garbage going on.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:26 AM   #5
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What happened to the teachers who were actually passionate about their jobs? They're fucking students over with this shit, and they send home notices going like, "Bill 22 abolishes the limit on classroom size, so we teachers can't give special attention to students individually"
I'm not graduating this school year so it doesn't affect me as much, but man this had better be over with soon
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:45 AM   #6
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I'm not exactly sure what Bill 22 is, but this is off the BCTF website. Bear in mind that the BCTF is extremely biased and I can not guarantee the validity of the following information or the exclusion of some information.
This is the full Bill 22 legislation, without any spin, just the legal legislation Bill 22 — 2012: Education Improvement Act

In plain speak/dumbed down

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Bill 22 prevents teachers from striking and legislates a “cooling-off period” until August, in hopes that the two sides can settle the dispute with the help of a mediator.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/news/Bill...#ixzz1tS3xHSf8

At the heart of the issue is that the BCTF wants a 15% pay raise over the next 3 years, conveniently left out of their own media release/spin There just isn't the budget for a raise with the deficit and monies owed to Ottawa for the HST repayment. I have no issue with Bill 22, it just prevents them from walking off work and striking while brings them to mediation.

I do support the majority of what teachers do, but the BCTF is really turning me against the teachers and from everyone I talk to in my circle, they all feel the same way. I think BC teachers would be best served to get rid of the current BCTF leadership and Susan Lambert, but they recently just choose to re-elect her as their leader over candidates that take a less adversary/hard line approach.

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Old 04-29-2012, 11:35 AM   #7
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Oh man, BC Teachers.

They are pissed because everyone has taken a crack at them. The NDP, who one would think would settle nicely up in the crack of their ass changed it from teachers negotiating with individual school boards to province wide.

So that was strike one.

That system set them up for good incremental increases..."this school board gave a 4% increase...we are now the lowest paid blah blah blah", then the original highest paid school board teachers come around and say that "we're now the lowest paid" and round and round we go.

Then the liberals made them an essential service.

Now Bill 22 effectively breaks up the union, because they can't negotiate a damned thing.

Plus you get the added benefit of going to a "mediated settlement" where the mediator is picked by the employer and told" you can do what you want" except...you can't give them a raise or discuss students in the classroom or anything else they care about.

Yippee! Let's get excited for that negotiation.

Plus the supreme court came back and told the province that it was wrong to strip the teachers of their rights to discuss class size and composition, and the province basically went back and said they'll get to dealing with that whole mess at some point.

So, yeah, a 15% wage increase is kind of nuts, but what are you going to do? I think a 0% increase is kind of nuts as well. Would you go into your bosses office already half bent over?

Money is not a motivator to do a better job. Money IS a de-motivator.

They are getting a lot of grief, on the news, in the comments about news articles everywhere, but I for one support them. Do I think they deserve everything they are asking for? Absolutely not. But I do think its pretty important the job they do, you know, educate the next generation.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:30 PM   #8
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They are getting a lot of grief, on the news, in the comments about news articles everywhere, but I for one support them. Do I think they deserve everything they are asking for? Absolutely not. But I do think its pretty important the job they do, you know, educate the next generation.
Or choose a career that pays better? Ima go work at mcdonalds....and demand higher wages!
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:42 PM   #9
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Or choose a career that pays better? Ima go work at mcdonalds....and demand higher wages!
Oh, I dig that.

I don't think anyone decides to teach 1st grade for the money.

That being said, even leaving money out of it, do they not even deserve the respect of having a voice in how education is delivered in BC? They ARE the ones that are on the ground.

Money implies respect. I respect the work you do, and value it. Here is a reflection of said respect. I don't know if they don't make enough money or not. I've never been a teacher.

I'm more inclined to believe that the 'soft' issues are the ones that are the stick that they are being beaten with.

It seems to me like the province is saying this is the scenario in which you will produce top quality students. Go.

In terms of them withdrawing extra curriculars, yeah, it sucks, but they are left with NOTHING else with which to protest.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:47 PM   #10
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Old 04-29-2012, 02:03 PM   #11
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I don't believe in forcing people to work unless that work provides a life/death necessity to others

and so in that sense I support the teachers right to strike even though I don't support their reasons for it
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:18 PM   #12
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So, yeah, a 15% wage increase is kind of nuts, but what are you going to do? I think a 0% increase is kind of nuts as well. Would you go into your bosses office already half bent over?

Money is not a motivator to do a better job. Money IS a de-motivator.

They are getting a lot of grief, on the news, in the comments about news articles everywhere, but I for one support them. Do I think they deserve everything they are asking for? Absolutely not. But I do think its pretty important the job they do, you know, educate the next generation.
I agree with a lot of the points here. But one thing is the 15% is the starting point for their bargaining negotiation. I don't think that's what the teachers are expecting. However the government is really trying to push for 0% like their net-zero mandate. Other provincial organizations had to settle for net-zero the last two years and I really don't see people willing to accept another zero % wage increase going forward.

I dislike unions for always asking for too much, and 5% a year is asking for way too much, but an increase somewhere near or below inflation sounds fair.

Seems like everyone is going on strike these days from icbc, teachers, to Air canada (on the topic of air canada, they are really screwed, most flyers want their pilots to be happy and well paid if they are responsible for their lives when in the air).

The thing that pisses me off the most is the executives and board members and managements of these companies get paid shiet loads of money + crazy bonuses to do basically nothing. $200K a year to be communications VPs? or 150K a year for being customer service managers? 15K a month for sitting on the board doing nothing?

What did BC hydro and translink do for the executives to make soo much money + bonuses?
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:01 PM   #13
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One of the biggest problems that all unions are facing is that all unions who already signed with net-zero also signed a "me too" clause; which means that the Government put themselves in a very sticky situation.

Even if they wanted to offer the teachers more money, they would then end up digging themselves deeper graves, having to give out retroactive raises to all other government workers.

Idiots.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:04 PM   #14
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they're getting rid of passport people, border guards, everyone. And they're penny-pinching people for jay walking, smuggling $100 of shit and getting a good deal on cars. how in the hell do they expect a 15% raise right now? I just dont see it. and if it happens most of the province will probably pay the price

if i was in grade 12 right now and my athletic scholarship would be compromised, my report card not put out and my chances at passing the final exam slim i'd be pretty pissed. good thing i'm an out of shape employed dumb adult instead
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #15
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All these unions and gov't workers that like to strike and make demands need to get realistic here and really look at the economy before asking for more money from the gov't. When the private sector has businesses going bankrupt, people getting laid off, no wage increases and they pull shit like this really pisses me off. Are students really going to get better education if they get a 15% raise? Heck no just more money into their pocket thats it. I dont believe any raises from the past has made any generation smarter in fact I see more materialistic and rude kids more than ever now. Its for the teachers/unions themselves obviously. We all got to work and make a living too and for the work they do dont they get paid similar to what the police get paid? Last time I remembered teachers dont go to post secondary for 7 years or more so why the hell do they think they deserve to get paid so much? In the end who will get screwed if they get this raise? The tax payers of course. Fack I should have became a teacher.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:32 AM   #16
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Do you guys think if we still had the HST a lot of these problems wouldn't be an issue?

With the HST I feel that we would have so much more money to dump into govt, healthcare, schools, etc.
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Old 04-30-2012, 07:51 AM   #17
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Give them a raise of inflation. That's fair, considering what SupraMan604 said, there's alot of people losing their jobs because the economy is still just starting to pick up.

But how I see it is, if your asking for a raise and to spread it out over 3 years.. in 3 years you better not come back and ask for more and more.. I'd vote that if you do, we fucking crucifie your ass.

My 0.02 cents.
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Old 04-30-2012, 08:48 PM   #18
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I don't think anyone decides to teach 1st grade for the money.
If Bill 22 really was as evil as BCTF states, over 1/4 of their membership does not fit within the values and parameters of the union. IMO that is not a strong and unifying voice.

There certainly are a good share of excellent teachers and educators, but it isn't hard to be a teacher and it still isn't. And that is why teaching can be so appealing for those who have no idea what to do with their sociology and biology degrees. Spend an extra year or two, get into teaching and just climb the union ladder. Do a just good enough job to get by, get paid decently well, guaranteed 2 months off for summer, 1-2 weeks spring break, 2 weeks Chirstmas, really not a whole lot to complain about. If you're not a teacher who is passionate about teaching your kids, it really doesn't take a whole lot of time outside a regular 8-4/9-5 day.

With the back log in new teachers getting FT positions nowadays, it does a good job weeding out those teachers who don't really want to be teachers. As Taylor used to say, its about supply and demand. BC doesn't need to give in to teachers' demands because there are SOOO many teachers who would be biting at the chance for a FT position. If there was an actual demand for teachers, their wage and classroom demands would surely be given more attention.

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Fack I should have became a teacher.
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:33 PM   #19
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Do you guys think if we still had the HST a lot of these problems wouldn't be an issue?

With the HST I feel that we would have so much more money to dump into govt, healthcare, schools, etc.
I didn't want to pay more tax but I voted to keep the HST. It was implemented in the worst way, then repealed in the worst way.

I hear everyone complain about how bad funding is for all social services: hospitals, schools, humanitarian aid, etc; however, everyone just thinks the budget should magically make up more money without raising taxes. Everyone is complaining and no one has a viable plan to make things better.

Then they try and solve funding and simplify the tax structure AND get a lump sum of federal funds... by basically yelling 'surprise buttsecks' and making everyone feel like... surprise buttsecks.

Tax policy decided by a general populace vote... well that worked out just perfectly. Let's try the same with every government decision; the internet exists, it is possible. I'm sure with low voter turnouts, there would eventually be majority votes to eliminate speed limits, legalize crack, and burn down the schools.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:20 PM   #20
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I hear everyone complain about how bad funding is for all social services: hospitals, schools, humanitarian aid, etc; however, everyone just thinks the budget should magically make up more money without raising taxes. Everyone is complaining and no one has a viable plan to make things better.

Then they try and solve funding and simplify the tax structure AND get a lump sum of federal funds... by basically yelling 'surprise buttsecks' and making everyone feel like... surprise buttsecks.
Don't want this to go off track...but, two things:

1. Here's my viable plan-stop wasting goddamned money. Let's decide what the priorities are and stick to them. Make some of these billion dollar "corporations" cough translink actually believe that money doesn't grow on a magical tree in the parking lot.

2. Yeah, surprise! buttsecks. Well, surprise! we've had enough. If you want to circumvent democracy by going through an election saying "no no no" then be like "maybe" well, the people have a little buttsecks in store for you too.

It sucks. We have a fat bill to pay off, a bunch of pissed off public sector workers, re-implementing an old tax system and the NDP are going to cakewalk through the election and win it.

That will do one thing I like, and that is make another one of these faces:

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and one of these:

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and NOT one of these:

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And definitely NOT this:

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