Boss asking about other people's work performance

[xmisstrinh]

Originally Posted by Noir

So...

(a) You don't think its unprofessional to talk about some people behind their backs.

(b) And you think, it should be anonymous so nobody knows it was you who trashed someone...


and you just happen to be a girl right?


Again, I hate to be a sexist but sometimes its hard to ignore patterns you've observed.

When guys do this, it makes them hella uncomfortable. Maybe its just a stupid "macho" thing that we think we can solve problems ourselves, or as a show that the annoying things other people do, doesn't affect us. Or maybe its a different culture, and it doesn't matter how much a guy dislikes someone, but no guy usually wants to be the rat.

First off, OP said that its department-wide, so its not talking behind other's backs. Had it been that the boss is pulling out people to chat without other's knowledge, then it would be unprofessional and unethical.

I think that any type of 360 evaluations should be anonymous regardless of trash talk or not.

And no its not just because I'm a girl, but I am in HR. 360 evaluations are important in gaining a full view of how someone's performance is. 10% of co workers saying shit about someone vs 90% positive evaluations- you can pretty much weed out what is true of someone's work ethics and what is false.

[nns]

I'm kind of amused that some of you are basically drawing parallels between critiiquing another coworker, and snitching/being a rat/whatever.

This is the professional world, not the streets. Not that hood politics work well in either arena.

I'm just going to throw this out there, it's not really a direct response to a post anyboy has made. Personally, if I know somebody is making a mistake that makes the company look bad, I'm going to take offense to it. No, I don't have a blind devotion to my employer. I simply feel my work reflects on my ethics and personality. I apply this judgement upon my coworkers. If I feel their mistakes, laziness, etc is making the rest of us look bad, I'm not going to keep it all bottled up because of some no-snitching mindset. Now should somebody ask me, say a superior, what I think of X person, I would definitely think about bringing what I feel is relevant to them. I would keep it constructive, and back it up with facts and examples. I am responsible for my work, my boss is responsible for me AND my work. My boss has his boss, and so on. If he feels he needs to run a tighter ship and does so partly by asking for my opinion about my colleagues, I'll do it. I understand.

I wouldn't want to get any of my coworkers fired. If my critique makes someone else better at their job, that's a win for everyone.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by xmisstrinh

First off, OP said that its department-wide, so its not talking behind other's backs. Had it been that the boss is pulling out people to chat without other's knowledge, then it would be unprofessional and unethical.

I think that any type of 360 evaluations should be anonymous regardless of trash talk or not.

And no its not just because I'm a girl, but I am in HR. 360 evaluations are important in gaining a full view of how someone's performance is. 10% of co workers saying shit about someone vs 90% positive evaluations- you can pretty much weed out what is true of someone's work ethics and what is false.

It still is.

And seriously, the benefits of this management style do not outweigh the negative consequences. Why?

(a) We've already seen, unless it's a positive feedback, that a large portion of people are already uncomfortable of throwing people under the bus. Therefore, what you're going to get are PC, watered down half truths at best; if at all.

(b) Those who are more than comfortable at dishing negative critiques at their peers are subject to the bias of their cliques or social favourites. Yes it's a professional environment but you can't ignore that at the end of it, people are just people and social segregation by cliques, like highschool exists in today's workplace as well.

Because of this bias, the integrity of these feedbacks are compromised as well.

(c) And then there those that complain just to complain. Wether it's warranted or not. In an office, these people can be either, employees who think they can run the office better, employees who think trashing other makes his work look good, or maybe some people complain just to look like their contributing to the improvement and direction of the company.



Like a few already said here, if you're boss has no grasp of his troops, he has no business being a leader at all; and putting them in a pit where they may have to fend against each other is not good management (or evaluation) strategy. You can professionally dress this process up whatever you like: peer evaluation, 360 evaluation, etc. It's all the same.

Originally Posted by nns

I'm kind of amused that some of you are basically drawing parallels between critiiquing another coworker, and snitching/being a rat/whatever.

This is the professional world, not the streets. Not that hood politics work well in either arena.


I'm just going to throw this out there, it's not really a direct response to a post anyboy has made. Personally, if I know somebody is making a mistake that makes the company look bad, I'm going to take offense to it. No, I don't have a blind devotion to my employer. I simply feel my work reflects on my ethics and personality. I apply this judgement upon my coworkers. If I feel their mistakes, laziness, etc is making the rest of us look bad, I'm not going to keep it all bottled up because of some no-snitching mindset. Now should somebody ask me, say a superior, what I think of X person, I would definitely think about bringing what I feel is relevant to them. I would keep it constructive, and back it up with facts and examples. I am responsible for my work, my boss is responsible for me AND my work. My boss has his boss, and so on. If he feels he needs to run a tighter ship and does so partly by asking for my opinion about my colleagues, I'll do it. I understand.


I wouldn't want to get any of my coworkers fired. If my critique makes someone else better at their job, that's a win for everyone.

That's you though, and a lot of guys here including myself, share your sentiment in how they would handle that situation. However, do you guarantee that everyone will handle a difficult situation with as much class and tact as you have?

The latter part of the first page already displayed, there are guys like you... and then there are otherwise.

[nns]

Just to make things clear, Noir, if you were my boss/supervisor/superior, when would it cross your mind that it would be acceptable to ask my colleagues for their opinion of me?

Possibly never?

[alpinestars]

Originally Posted by shamir16

Studying Human Resource Management and currently doing my practicum.

Having individual meetings with everyone in the office is perfectly legal...sadly he is not breaking any laws.

Like the others mentioned, you could just state that you are not comfortable speaking about people's performance.

If your boss however goes into personal issues that is not related to your workplace...then there could be an issue.

It seems that your boss is just going to make matters worse for him in the long run once people start realizing what he is trying to do.

shamir, may want to consider some 1 on 1 lessons from tiger_handheld.

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I believe the business term for this type of questioning is
360 degree evaluation

you evaluate youself
your immediate manager evaluates you
your peers evaluate you


this is very common in the corporate world

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by highres604

Don't rat out your co-workers. Just terrible. Also any good manager shouldn't have to ask these questions. The only time it would be somewhat acceptable is if the manager is based out of a different location and does not have day to day exposure to the employees.

That's the thing; many managers or bosses don't have daily interactions with their employees. It's one thing to judge someone solely by their numbers, but depending on the job, how they interact with their coworkers and customers also plays a big part into it. If I worked for Company A's satellite office in Vancouver, while my Home Office (and boss) was located in Toronto, it's obviously going to be quite difficult for my boss to assess my other skills apart from the data he can see from the weekly spreadsheet he can pull. I may have very good project completions, but my interactions with others could be absolutely shitty. It's for things like this that bosses will walk around and talk to others about me.

Even at my current job, my boss and I rarely ever see each other apart from a brief morning meeting every few days. She doesn't see that I spend a ton of time slacking off by surfing on Revscene or text messaging my friends or swearing at my drivers; all she see's is that my work is completed on time with minimal overtime required. On paper, I look good. On the other hand, I might look like the biggest douche. It's up to her to talk to my coworkers and find out the truth and make a judgement call based upon all the information she gathers.

[drunkrussian]

Originally Posted by nns

I'm kind of amused that some of you are basically drawing parallels between critiiquing another coworker, and snitching/being a rat/whatever.

This is the professional world, not the streets. Not that hood politics work well in either arena.

I'm just going to throw this out there, it's not really a direct response to a post anyboy has made. Personally, if I know somebody is making a mistake that makes the company look bad, I'm going to take offense to it. No, I don't have a blind devotion to my employer. I simply feel my work reflects on my ethics and personality. I apply this judgement upon my coworkers. If I feel their mistakes, laziness, etc is making the rest of us look bad, I'm not going to keep it all bottled up because of some no-snitching mindset. Now should somebody ask me, say a superior, what I think of X person, I would definitely think about bringing what I feel is relevant to them. I would keep it constructive, and back it up with facts and examples. I am responsible for my work, my boss is responsible for me AND my work. My boss has his boss, and so on. If he feels he needs to run a tighter ship and does so partly by asking for my opinion about my colleagues, I'll do it. I understand.

I wouldn't want to get any of my coworkers fired. If my critique makes someone else better at their job, that's a win for everyone.

i couldn't disagree more.

for me personally, it's not about "the streets" lol in fact fuck the street code - i'm al for snitching and criminals being put in jail. If i was sure of my safety i would snitch in a heartbeat.

the reason for me why work is different is the opposite of "the streets" - people at work are good people, who worked hard to get there and who's livelihood and lives depend on earning money from the job. Therefore for me to throw someone under the bus, they would have to piss me off, cause serious harm to the company and be the worst coworker ever. i would never bitch about a coworker who has some bad habits or irritates me or is not as good at a certain thing as another person. I think it's a scumbag move, a selfish move, and i just would feel disgusting doing it.

Now don't get me wrong - i would definitely critique someone if i was a manager and i'd do it in an effective way. But like i said, unless hte person is making my life miserable, it's not my place to critisize them. Unless it's an open forum where we're all providing each other positive and negative feedback openly and to each other's faces

i do see however that you mention making you and the team look bad. If in fact an employee makes a whole team look bad, then more people are affected by this person's actions, than that one person would be affected if i snitched on him. In that case and that situation, i agree and i would definitely express how i feel.

[Hurricane]

This thread is jam packed full of fail.

360-degree feedback = weaseling ???

Doesn't sound like OP is afraid to talk about his coworkers - more like he's afraid of how many of them are going to tell the boss he's a class A D#G F##KER.

360-feedback is one of the most valuable tools to use when considering people for promotions. Respect of ones peers is of utmost importance.

If you're afraid of what your coworkers might say about you that the boss doesn't already know, well... there are probably bigger issues to be addressed.

[Noir]

Originally Posted by nns

Just to make things clear, Noir, if you were my boss/supervisor/superior, when would it cross your mind that it would be acceptable to ask my colleagues for their opinion of me?

Possibly never?

Nope.

If I have a problem with you, I will speak with you directly and address only you. I will also make sure it's isolated so it's just between you and me and not the hot new gossip of the office.


However,

If it's informal and I'm just asking how people are doing around the office, and say... you're not around, I don't see a problem asking...

(a) Hey, how is nns doing?
(b) or, hey have you guys heard from nns?

We always do the latter.

Originally Posted by drunkrussian

Now don't get me wrong - i would definitely critique someone if i was a manager and i'd do it in an effective way. But like i said, unless hte person is making my life miserable, it's not my place to critisize them. Unless it's an open forum where we're all providing each other positive and negative feedback openly and to each other's faces

You'll be surprised. I've been there too and you'll be surprised to see how so many people suddenly have no opinions of one another; and if any, they're all lovey dovey hunky dorey for the majority of it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by nns

I'm kind of amused that some of you are basically drawing parallels between critiiquing another coworker, and snitching/being a rat/whatever.

This is the professional world, not the streets. Not that hood politics work well in either arena.

I'm just going to throw this out there, it's not really a direct response to a post anyboy has made. Personally, if I know somebody is making a mistake that makes the company look bad, I'm going to take offense to it. No, I don't have a blind devotion to my employer. I simply feel my work reflects on my ethics and personality. I apply this judgement upon my coworkers. If I feel their mistakes, laziness, etc is making the rest of us look bad, I'm not going to keep it all bottled up because of some no-snitching mindset. Now should somebody ask me, say a superior, what I think of X person, I would definitely think about bringing what I feel is relevant to them. I would keep it constructive, and back it up with facts and examples. I am responsible for my work, my boss is responsible for me AND my work. My boss has his boss, and so on. If he feels he needs to run a tighter ship and does so partly by asking for my opinion about my colleagues, I'll do it. I understand.

I wouldn't want to get any of my coworkers fired. If my critique makes someone else better at their job, that's a win for everyone.

Happen to my workplace now. One guy always shows up late (like 98% of the time). Have been doing this ever since I work there(like 4years). I don't really mind at first since everyone is late sometime coz of traffic, transit...... but it got really bad to a point where he is constantly over 30mins. I remember one time working with him on New Years day and he came over an hour late(it was just me and him working that day). So I complain to HR about this.

Things improve for about 2 weeks and he is back to his old self again. Another person complain about it a few times, and everytime he would show up on time for a week or two and then start being late again. It was funny coz one point one of my co-workers couldn't take it and just blow it right in front of everyone.

To this day that person is still about 10 to 15mins late everyday. And he knows we complain to the HR somehow but nothing is done and he is still here. I pretty give up lol since nothing will be done anyways.

Originally Posted by xmisstrinh

First off, OP said that its department-wide, so its not talking behind other's backs. Had it been that the boss is pulling out people to chat without other's knowledge, then it would be unprofessional and unethical.

I think that any type of 360 evaluations should be anonymous regardless of trash talk or not.

And no its not just because I'm a girl, but I am in HR. 360 evaluations are important in gaining a full view of how someone's performance is. 10% of co workers saying shit about someone vs 90% positive evaluations- you can pretty much weed out what is true of someone's work ethics and what is false.

Can you hire me . Anyways I don't really like to complain or anything to management unless I have to. Everyone made mistake and I am sure I made some. Unless is something really bad(above) I usually won't say much. It also depends on how your HR handles matter as well. Like my company (see above) nothing is being done despite several complaining about one guy with the same issue. It does get me thinking if he can get away with it I can too and it also makes me feel somehow HR is letting him do it coz he have been here longer and other stuff. In the end it just makes hard to talk to HR about anything coz our complains does nothing.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Happen to my workplace now. One guy always shows up late (like 98% of the time). Have been doing this ever since I work there(like 4years). I don't really mind at first since everyone is late sometime coz of traffic, transit...... but it got really bad to a point where he is constantly over 30mins. I remember one time working with him on New Years day and he came over an hour late(it was just me and him working that day). So I complain to HR about this.

Things improve for about 2 weeks and he is back to his old self again. Another person complain about it a few times, and everytime he would show up on time for a week or two and then start being late again. It was funny coz one point one of my co-workers couldn't take it and just blow it right in front of everyone.

To this day that person is still about 10 to 15mins late everyday. And he knows we complain to the HR somehow but nothing is done and he is still here. I pretty give up lol since nothing will be done anyways.

Can you hire me . Anyways I don't really like to complain or anything to management unless I have to. Everyone made mistake and I am sure I made some. Unless is something really bad(above) I usually won't say much. It also depends on how your HR handles matter as well. Like my company (see above) nothing is being done despite several complaining about one guy with the same issue. It does get me thinking if he can get away with it I can too and it also makes me feel somehow HR is letting him do it coz he have been here longer and other stuff. In the end it just makes hard to talk to HR about anything coz our complains does nothing.

[drunkrussian]

Originally Posted by Noir

You'll be surprised. I've been there too and you'll be surprised to see how so many people suddenly have no opinions of one another; and if any, they're all lovey dovey hunky dorey for the majority of it.

lol true

[Gridlock]

Ultimately, its up to the OP to decide if this is a formal 360 evaluation which can be good, or a fishing expedition which can be bad.

Anytime I've seen 360 implemented, I have never seen the co-workers as part of that 360 degree circle.

My perspective is, if you want to have me evaluate people that are my colleagues, make me a manager and I will happily do so. If you are asking me to evaluate them, and let's be honest, you don't give a shit about the good stuff, and they are equally doing the same for me...I don't see that as being good.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Anytime I've seen 360 implemented, I have never seen the co-workers as part of that 360 degree circle.

That's like saying, anytime I've seen hockey, the guys were kicking a ball around a grass field.

You haven't seen 360 implemented.

My advice to managers considering using 360
-make employees aware from day 1 of your intentions to use 360
-involve the people involved - have employees design the process
-give them time to 'mend fences' before the evaluations are conducted
-make every person in and entering the organization aware of the process

If a person is only ever reviewed by their superior, they will only ever know how they perform as an employee (subordinate)

It's equally as important to receive feedback on how they perform as a supervisor/manager and coworker, in the eyes of those around them everyday.

That said, bad surprises do nothing but erode trust within an organization, and it doesn't sound like the OP's boss followed due process. Probably attended a weekend workshop, and decided it was a good idea to introduce immediately on his own terms.

[spoon.ek9]

I'm still trying to catch up on all the posts in this thread. It's very interesting to see as I have my eye on a management/supervisor's role in the near future.

Like I said, I haven't read everyone's responses but it would appear not everyone here has had a union job. I can tell you with confidence that there are TONS of men who slack at their jobs HARD and hide behind the union. I currently work at a place where the most vocal complainer is also the guy who has the least amount of work, complains the most, has angry outbursts during work conversations AND staff meetings, has recently bullied the temp manager into reducing his work load, takes excessively long breaks throughout the day yet also complains that there is no leadership or accountability for people's actions. Try to figure that guy out.

x 1,000,000