REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Police Forum

Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #26
NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 37
Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Yep, we know that.




There's nothing biologically different about a police officer's brain than a civilian's brain. Tell me how using those devices while operating a motor vehicle somehow isn't distracting to them?
police officers are trained to task sequence while driving. During training (and on the job), they go through scenario after scenario where they have to drive, communicate on the radio, constantly scan their environment, and sometimes on their phone, while making decisions before they get on scene. So yes, because of the trainng and constant stimulation, I am pretty sure police officers are able to task sequence a lot better than the average joe.

It isn't a double standard. A double standard would be saying OFF DUTY cops are exempt from that particular offence, but they aren't.

Your argument is like saying police officers should not go above the speed limit to attend a call, if normal civilians can't go above the limit. It is part of the job.
Advertisement
10-9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2012, 11:48 PM   #27
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
Your argument is like saying police officers should not go above the speed limit to attend a call, if normal civilians can't go above the limit. It is part of the job.
Not at all. Most of the time, drivers can "speed" with virtually no problems. Remembering the details of a phone conversation while navigating through traffic.. not so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
It isn't a double standard. A double standard would be saying OFF DUTY cops are exempt from that particular offence, but they aren't.
So if they've received special training, why aren't they permitted to use the phone while driving off-duty?

And if police officers are permitted to poke at their laptop while stopped at a light, why can't I poke at my GPS device while stopped at a light?
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #28
Rs has made me the man i am today!
 
catalin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Surrey/Guildfor
Posts: 3,318
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
New officers can get trained all they want but nothing prepares them for everyday encounters other then experience. Same goes for cell phone use and driving. If you're a long time driver with knowledge of the roads and actually have the common sense to plan your trip then it really isn't that hard to do both in a car. Some may say that, "oh well you won't see traffic changing lanes" or whatever....well that's because there are too many dumbasses on the road and licenses are too easy to get.

Personally I think i think people are way more dangerous now testing under the wheel...and how the Frick! Do they know who's crashed because of testing or using their phone? Really how? Unless they check every crashed drivers phone records its just not possible.

Meh, best thing is play dumb and say you were scratching your ear. There's no law on driving single handed....or is there?
__________________
Click here for my feedback.
catalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 09:48 AM   #29
Marcosexual Fan Club, CEO
 
Marco911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: US Bush-country
Posts: 7,738
Thanked 822 Times in 284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonestock View Post

kind of silly how you can't use a system that's standard on your car that's designed to stop you from using your handheld.
distracting or not.
You're overanalyzing. Go ahead and use the system...There's pretty much a zero chance you'll get busted for it.
__________________
Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another.
Marco911 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-20-2012, 01:40 PM   #30
nuggets mod
 
freakshow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: richmond
Posts: 6,706
Thanked 3,047 Times in 842 Posts
So if it was part of my job to make and receive calls while in my car, i should be able to take a special course and get the exemption, right?
__________________
I searched for truth, and all I found was You

'00 323i (Sold)
'01 Civic Si (Sold)
'95 240sx (Sold)
'02 LMB M5 (Sold)
'92 4Runner (Sold)
'92 Civic VX (Sold)
'03 SL500 (Sold)
'92 NSX
'99 M3 (Totalled)
'07 A4 2.0T (Sold)
'01 CB M5 (Sold)
'01 540i (Sold)
'11 535ix
freakshow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 02:39 PM   #31
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Or, perhaps you're a delivery driver and you have an automated dispatch system installed in the vehicle, say a tablet PC with specialized software on it. You need to press a button on the screen to acknowledge that an address has been added to your route. You're stopped in traffic at a light, but you have to pull over and park before you're permitted to tap the screen.

This law really wasn't crafted to take into account these variables, was it?
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #32
NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 37
Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
Not at all. Most of the time, drivers can "speed" with virtually no problems. Remembering the details of a phone conversation while navigating through traffic.. not so much.



So if they've received special training, why aren't they permitted to use the phone while driving off-duty?

And if police officers are permitted to poke at their laptop while stopped at a light, why can't I poke at my GPS device while stopped at a light?
off duty officers aren't exempt from this because they are not on their phone during the course of their duty.. a double standard would only cause civilians like yourself to become more outraged.
10-9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-20-2012, 05:58 PM   #33
I am Hook'd on RS
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 64
Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts
Laws are meant to be broken. Use a hands free device or Siri if you got it.
Vancouver_M5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 01:04 AM   #34
Banned By Establishment
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Infiniti
Posts: 2,470
Thanked 2,121 Times in 669 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by d87c View Post
If a police stop you, just say you were singing to the music to keep yourself awake
then your screwed, once they say "oh, so your tired and driving?"
xilley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #35
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
off duty officers aren't exempt from this because they are not on their phone during the course of their duty..
If they have the training to do it safely then why should their phone usage be restricted to work related conversations?
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 08:28 PM   #36
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Soundy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Abbotstan
Posts: 20,731
Thanked 12,144 Times in 3,366 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
If they have the training to do it safely then why should their phone usage be restricted to work related conversations?
Because otherwise you'd be whining about why the rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to them.

Same reason cops aren't allowed to speed in their own cars, but are when they're on-duty.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzira View Post
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brianrietta View Post
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
Soundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 09:04 PM   #37
What hasn't Killed me, has made me more tolerant of RS!
 
iKayChow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 169
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
you know, if you're using your car's hands free how would anyone even know you're on the phone honestly? they see you talking.. could be just singing in your car lulzzzz

i for one sing in my car
iKayChow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:24 PM   #38
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundy View Post
Because otherwise you'd be whining about why the rules that apply to everyone else don't apply to them.

Same reason cops aren't allowed to speed in their own cars, but are when they're on-duty.
You're so wrong Soundy. I'd be accepting of the fact that they're trained to use their phones safely. But it's all moot regardless as they're just as susceptible to the old left brain/right brain battle when it comes to talking and driving.

As for speeding in their own cars - their own cars don't have lights and sirens and police markings... Not like they don't get away with it anyway.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:36 PM   #39
NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 37
Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
You're so wrong Soundy. I'd be accepting of the fact that they're trained to use their phones safely. But it's all moot regardless as they're just as susceptible to the old left brain/right brain battle when it comes to talking and driving.

As for speeding in their own cars - their own cars don't have lights and sirens and police markings... Not like they don't get away with it anyway.
A police officer is exempt to talk on the phone while driving when they are on duty because it is work related. If a police officer is off duty, why would they need the exemption if it is not related to work? Also, even they are were exempt as an off duty officer, how would the lay person, or even you know, if the person you see chatting away on the phone while driving is a police officer?

Police officers are allowed to carry a prohibited firearm as their duty pistol... It doesn't mean they walk around town, off duty, with their smith and wesson.
10-9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:43 PM   #40
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
A police officer is exempt to talk on the phone while driving when they are on duty because it is work related.
So again, why can't I use my phone in the car while driving if it is work related?
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:49 PM   #41
Rs has made me the man i am today!
 
catalin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Surrey/Guildfor
Posts: 3,318
Thanked 39 Times in 29 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
A police officer is exempt to talk on the phone while driving when they are on duty because it is work related.
BS an officer or not it's a human being using a phone. If you're going to put a law in place then everyone should follow it. I can drive fricken circles around a cop on the phone, typing on my computer and driving with my knees. Screw that nonsense... If I see a cop talking on the phone I'm going to let'em have it. Get off the phone like the rest of us!
__________________
Click here for my feedback.
catalin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2012, 11:55 PM   #42
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Oh, but he has the training, and it was work related!

Vancouver police deputy chief ticketed for smashing cruiser while using cellphone
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 06:10 AM   #43
RS Peace Officer
 
zulutango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Vancouver Islan
Posts: 3,850
Thanked 1,623 Times in 678 Posts
I'm not aware of any training given to Police to help them drive while on cell phones. The advanced driving course had a segment where we tried to drive the course while talking on the radio and it was instantly obvious that the divided attention was a huge problem..you ran over cones and went off course. If you use a cell phone while driving and you crash you will be held responsible for your actions. I know of Cops who got ticketed for driving offences, while on duty and driving code 3....lights & siren. You have the exemption to disobey traffic laws while on duty, but you are held 100% responsible for anything that happens as a result. I refused to answer my cell or look at the MDT screen while driving and told dispatch that.


The decision to permit drivers to use hands free phones is based entirely in politics and is 100% contrary to all research showing the mental distraction is the problem, not holding the phone. To ban them completely for safety (the proper thing to do) would create a s**t storm of Mr Lahey proportions and the politicians don't want that. They introduced a wimpy version of photo radar and dumped it for the same political reasons. Done the way it was done in the countries where they used it properly, resulted in dramatic drops in crashes and injuries. Done the way the NDP introduced and ran it and the way the Liberals dumped it as an election vote-getter, accomplished very little other than to spend our money.
zulutango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 08:16 AM   #44
...on a mission....
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: n
Posts: 281
Thanked 60 Times in 30 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
I'm not aware of any training given to Police to help them drive while on cell phones. The advanced driving course had a segment where we tried to drive the course while talking on the radio and it was instantly obvious that the divided attention was a huge problem..you ran over cones and went off course. If you use a cell phone while driving and you crash you will be held responsible for your actions. I know of Cops who got ticketed for driving offences, while on duty and driving code 3....lights & siren. You have the exemption to disobey traffic laws while on duty, but you are held 100% responsible for anything that happens as a result. I refused to answer my cell or look at the MDT screen while driving and told dispatch that.


Thank you very much for being so honest Zulu!
Simnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 09:17 AM   #45
Oh goodie, 5 posts already!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: BC
Posts: 8
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
So again, why can't I use my phone in the car while driving if it is work related?
My assumption is because you are not a Peace Officer, as per the Motor Vehicle Act Peace Officers are exempt from this law.

Police Officers didn't make this rule, ICBC did.
Transience is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 09:36 AM   #46
NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 37
Thanked 15 Times in 9 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
I'm not aware of any training given to Police to help them drive while on cell phones. The advanced driving course had a segment where we tried to drive the course while talking on the radio and it was instantly obvious that the divided attention was a huge problem..you ran over cones and went off course. If you use a cell phone while driving and you crash you will be held responsible for your actions. I know of Cops who got ticketed for driving offences, while on duty and driving code 3....lights & siren. You have the exemption to disobey traffic laws while on duty, but you are held 100% responsible for anything that happens as a result. I refused to answer my cell or look at the MDT screen while driving and told dispatch that.


The decision to permit drivers to use hands free phones is based entirely in politics and is 100% contrary to all research showing the mental distraction is the problem, not holding the phone. To ban them completely for safety (the proper thing to do) would create a s**t storm of Mr Lahey proportions and the politicians don't want that. They introduced a wimpy version of photo radar and dumped it for the same political reasons. Done the way it was done in the countries where they used it properly, resulted in dramatic drops in crashes and injuries. Done the way the NDP introduced and ran it and the way the Liberals dumped it as an election vote-getter, accomplished very little other than to spend our money.

I stated that police officers are trained to task sequence while driving. The cell phone MDT etc is done on the job, I guess by some but not all, while driving. But like everything in policing, you are always liable for anything that happens, good or bad. That's part of the job.
10-9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 11:27 AM   #47
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
I'm not aware of any training given to Police to help them drive while on cell phones. The advanced driving course had a segment where we tried to drive the course while talking on the radio and it was instantly obvious that the divided attention was a huge problem..you ran over cones and went off course. If you use a cell phone while driving and you crash you will be held responsible for your actions. I know of Cops who got ticketed for driving offences, while on duty and driving code 3....lights & siren. You have the exemption to disobey traffic laws while on duty, but you are held 100% responsible for anything that happens as a result. I refused to answer my cell or look at the MDT screen while driving and told dispatch that.
Thank you, Zulu. There are just some things that a brain cannot be taught to do. Just out of curiosity, did you interact with the MDT while stopped at traffic lights?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
They introduced a wimpy version of photo radar and dumped it for the same political reasons. Done the way it was done in the countries where they used it properly, resulted in dramatic drops in crashes and injuries. Done the way the NDP introduced and ran it and the way the Liberals dumped it as an election vote-getter, accomplished very little other than to spend our money.
As you are aware the BC government commissioned a review in 2003 of our speed limits. It showed that there was a statistically significant increase in compliance with the posted limits and reduction in collisions in test areas where the speed limit was raised.

This was in stark contrast to what has been observed in other countries. So you can point to "countries that have properly implemented photo radar" and say "it works over there, why don't we do it?" all you want, but it doesn't mean that it will translate into the same results over here.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 02:55 PM   #48
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: vancouver
Posts: 827
Thanked 184 Times in 106 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 10-9 View Post
police officers are trained to task sequence while driving. During training (and on the job), they go through scenario after scenario where they have to drive, communicate on the radio, constantly scan their environment, and sometimes on their phone, while making decisions before they get on scene. So yes, because of the trainng and constant stimulation, I am pretty sure police officers are able to task sequence a lot better than the average joe.

.
like that interstate trooper in the states that crashed his Toyota for not being able to stop? Looks like his task sequence training kicked in there

Seriously. I'm in the car business and around a lot of people with these concerns. I think it is RIDICULOUS that if you buy a car with integrated BT/HFL, you can't use it with an N. If anything, drivers should be training to get used to the fact that there is an integrated device there to help you. In our industry, it's been predicted that within 5 years, EVERY new vehicle, regardless of class and price will have a BT/HFL unit. Might as well get the kids used to them now.

Not letting you use it for 2 years and then "boom", allowing you after is NOT going to make the process any easier. Drivers need better training. Better practice sessions. YD and provincial tests are a fucking JOKE.


Convos are distracting? Why don't we take out passenger seats? So no one can come with you?

Radios/decks - Take them out too. I've yet to meet one where I don't have to take my eyes off the road to operate one, ESPECIALLY on Euros (Audi MMIs, BMW iDrives, etc).

While we're at it, BAN CUPHOLDERS. Since drinking a beverage will be bad for driving too.

I've been driving for over 10 years. No. I DO NOT use any devices outside my BT and radio while driving.
But even before then, I've never even had as much as a CLOSE CALL with anyone or anything while driving and talking/phoning/drinking/eating. I'm not saying I'm good at it. Just saying, that I knew when to do it, how to do it, and what to watch for while I'm at it.


Shit. Seriously. These things have always been around for a number of years. Putting out a law to curb phone texting/calling is an admirable attempt to try and prevent accidents/fatalities from happening while driving. HOWEVER. It's the mentality of the drivers that is the main issue. No amount of laws short of a 10 year sentence /execution is going to prevent it from happening. The police have said it themselves: Since the introduction of the no-device law, numbers of offenders have actually gone UP.

Car companies are now introducing sms/bbm readback/composition features on their vehicles...wait until auto-correct kick in on those when you have some chinaman or indian guy trying to correct the system because it can't decypher their accents....





...while driving.

Last edited by BallPeenHammer2; 06-23-2012 at 03:04 PM.
BallPeenHammer2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #49
#savethemanuals
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Richmond
Posts: 3,755
Thanked 2,232 Times in 860 Posts
So much fuss over hands free Bluetooth. Just use it and be done with it. You're never going to get caught unless you're at a stop and there's an officer beside you and you press the answer button on your steering wheel while he is looking at you.
__________________
987 Porsche Cayman S 6MT


Gone:
E92 BMW 335i
AP1 Honda S2000
FA1 Honda Civic
Energy is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 06-23-2012, 04:26 PM   #50
I subscribe to Revscene
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,977
Thanked 185 Times in 129 Posts
Or when you crash because you were distracted.
__________________
Consider reading the research before commenting on photo enforcement: http://thenewspaper.com/

Support Road safety through education, not speed enforcement.
sebberry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net