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Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 06-18-2012, 06:12 PM   #1
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Questions about failing to stop for police

My mom was driving home and got pulled over by an unmarked police car.

She was traveling on the far left lane on Knight Street when the police car sounded his siren for a split second, there was quite a bit of traffic on the 2 lanes to the right so she felt it wasn't safe to make 2 lane changes and pull over to the right so she slowed down, signaled and turned into the next street on the left (There were also no incoming traffic on the other side of the road) where she immediately stopped for the officer.

73 (1) A peace officer may require the driver of a motor vehicle to stop and the driver of a motor vehicle, when signalled or requested to stop by a peace officer who is readily identifiable as a peace officer, must immediately come to a safe stop.

The officer asked the standard questions, asked for registration papers, etc. and then wrote a ticket for "fail to signal lane change", this was not possible because there was no reason for my mom to change lanes into the far left lane because she needed to make a right turn to head home and she had been traveling on the right lane since the Knight bridge. This charge was then crossed out and then wrote a 2nd ticket for "fail to stop for police".

So my questions are:

-Are you allowed to make a left turn to pull over into the next closest street or you must pull over to the right? I have a feeling that there might be a rule stating that you must pull over to the right, but I can't find anything that states this.
-Would this considered unreasonable as to failing to "immediately come to a safe stop"?

Any insight on this situation would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Last edited by clowe; 06-30-2012 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:41 PM   #2
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I assume you weren't in the vehicle with your mom and are writing based on her side of the incident.

I conjecture that the officer didn't ticket your mom for failing to stop for police because she pulled over only after turning left. The officer ticketed your mom because she was driving in an oblivious manner to her surroundings and did not pull over when required. He was probably driving behind her for quite some time with the cherries going without her pulling to the nearest curbside lane. Thus he required using the siren to get her attention, which officers don't normally use to pull someone over.

The argument that it wasn't safe to pull to the right also doesn't hold any water. If she signalled right - while being pursued by a peace officer, there is no way that surrounding traffic would not allow her to pull safely into the curbside lane.

In summary, no history of violations except for a parking ticket doesn't make someone a good driver. Having almost no situational awareness is the reason that she received the ticket, and I don't really see much grounds for a dispute.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:31 AM   #3
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Must immediately pull over... I'm assuming she got a VT for either fail to yield to emergency vehicle or fail to obey police direction. The other charge being crossed out is another way to show a written warning.

Your mom is among a large amount of problem drivers who don't get the frick out of the way immediately.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:51 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clowe View Post
there was quite a bit of traffic on the 2 lanes to the right so she felt it wasn't safe to make 2 lane changes and pull over to the right so she slowed down,

there was no reason for my mom to change lanes into the far left lane because she needed to make a right turn to head home and she had been traveling on the right lane since the Knight bridge.
Im confused, first you say shes travelling on the left then you say shes on the right??

Regardless, if traffic notices the lights going off and your mom signals to change lanes to the right, people will stop... heck people will slow down already if they see the lights...

Waiting almost to blocks to pull over is far to long.
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:59 AM   #5
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I concur about police only using lights and not using sirens. When I got pulled over, I don't know how long the officer was following me before I noticed the lights. Once I saw the lights I pulled over though. I got off with a warning for speeding. I was very lucky and that officer was very nice and I thanked him for just giving me a warning.

So yeah, if he had to blip his siren, then he was probably following her for a while and she may have made a lane change without signalling way before she remembered.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:58 AM   #6
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How can you not see the lights? It's pretty obvious that there's a police car behind you even before the lights go on.
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Old 06-19-2012, 12:50 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by sebberry View Post
How can you not see the lights? It's pretty obvious that there's a police car behind you even before the lights go on.
I got pulled over once during the daytime and it was pretty hard to see the lights with rear tint.
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:14 PM   #8
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Old 06-19-2012, 01:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo View Post
Im confused, first you say shes travelling on the left then you say shes on the right??

Regardless, if traffic notices the lights going off and your mom signals to change lanes to the right, people will stop... heck people will slow down already if they see the lights...

Waiting almost to blocks to pull over is far to long.
Sorry, meant left lane. She was on the far left lane. What I mean is there's no reason for her to have changed lanes from the middle or right lane into the far left one because her destination was on the right side. She had been traveling on the far left since the Bridgeport exit on the Knight Bridge to let traffic merge.

I guess it's a distinct possibility that the lights were on and she didn't notice. Will have to check with her on that.

Quote:
Must immediately pull over... I'm assuming she got a VT for either fail to yield to emergency vehicle or fail to obey police direction. The other charge being crossed out is another way to show a written warning.

Your mom is among a large amount of problem drivers who don't get the frick out of the way immediately.
She does get out of the way for emergency vehicles immediately. She looked for a place to pull over safely as soon as she noticed the officer, but unfortunately, she may not have noticed early enough if indeed the officer had been following her with the lights flashing.

My mom is not a perfect driver, I'll admit that and I don't think there's too many of us Chinese kids out there that can honestly say our mothers are absolute perfect drivers either. Mine does her best to be as safe as possible on the road and never does anything reckless.

As to her driving obliviously, to be honest, I've been with her many, many times in the past when she's driving along that path and I've never seen her do anything stupid. She never cuts in and out of traffic, doesn't drive like a drunk driver, never runs yellows, so I really don't know what she could've done oblivious driving in one lane in one direction. She's probably driven on that path on a daily basis for the past 10+ years. Yes, I know experience =/= perfection, but it helps a bit. I wasn't there so I can't say for sure whether or not she was being oblivious when this happened, she could've been and this might have been one of those once in a blue moon occurrences, I don't know.

Could it be possible she got pulled over because she didn't match the description of the registered owner? My dad is the owner of the car but my mom is the registered principle driver.

I'm not here to defend her actions, I simply don't have much experience dealing with situations like this so it didn't even cross my mind that the officer may have been following her with the lights on for a while until Marco brought it up. I was just hoping you guys could shed some light on this situation because obviously I can't call up the peace officer and ask him about the situation.

I'll consult with her later today and will likely pay off the ticket. Thanks for the input everyone.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:50 PM   #10
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She's probably driven on that path on a daily basis for the past 10+ years. Yes, I know experience =/= perfection, but it helps a bit. [B]
When you've driven the same road on a daily basis for this long, chances are she's so used to the routine that she may have changed lanes or something and just didn't even register that she did cause she drives this route so often. Basically, just be on autopilot. Not saying she did anything wrong, just saying that she may not have remembered doing anything different just cause of the repetitiveness.

I've had situations where I start driving to work without realizing it when in actual fact, it's the weekend and I actually wanted to go to the mall or something and I'd be part way to work and realize, oops...

Now I actually change up the route I take to work based on construction as there's a lot of construction around my area right now.
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Old 06-19-2012, 07:53 PM   #11
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Firstly, you weren't there so you don't know exactly what happened, just what she told you.

Secondly, what are the chances of the cop pulling your mom over randomly just to give her a ticket for no good reason?

Thirdly, who turns left to pull over for the police? I would be extremely annoyed if I attempted to conduct a traffic stop, and the drivere turned left to pull over. It is not only dangerous, but shows no common sense. There is no reason why cars around wouldn't have slowed down/pull to the right, making room for your mom and the police vehicle.

With that said, there are a large number of drivers that don't know what to do when they see the lights and sirens behind them. I have encountered some cars just STOP where they are (middle or even left lane turn lane).
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:01 PM   #12
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Why don't you just pay the ticket instead of going through all that trouble of disputing the ticket.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:08 PM   #13
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Firstly, you weren't there so you don't know exactly what happened, just what she told you.
Yes, I even emphasized it in my last post. I know I'm not fully aware of all the details and my mom probably isn't fully aware of all the details so that's why I posted it on here, to get some 3rd party insight on the situation that we may have overlooked. I'm not trying to justify what she did was right.

Quote:
Thirdly, who turns left to pull over for the police? I would be extremely annoyed if I attempted to conduct a traffic stop, and the drivere turned left to pull over. It is not only dangerous, but shows no common sense. There is no reason why cars around wouldn't have slowed down/pull to the right, making room for your mom and the police vehicle.
Sometimes people make the wrong decision under situations/circumstances they're unaccustomed to and it happened here, unfortunately. She'll learn from it and do the right thing next time should the situation arise again. I had a feeling it was the wrong thing to do, but couldn't find anything that confirmed it, so that's why I asked.

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Why don't you just pay the ticket instead of going through all that trouble of disputing the ticket.
Didn't fully understand the reasoning for the ticket at first. Now I do.

Case closed. Thanks for the info guys.
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Old 06-22-2012, 06:04 PM   #14
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Sorry, meant left lane. She was on the far left lane. What I mean is there's no reason for her to have changed lanes from the middle or right lane into the far left one because her destination was on the right side. She had been traveling on the far left since the Bridgeport exit on the Knight Bridge to let traffic merge.
what? destination on the right side and She had been traveling on the far left since the Bridgeport exit on the Knight Bridge to let traffic merge?
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Old 06-23-2012, 02:28 PM   #15
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^yes. When on the Knight st bridge/hwy area, at around the bridgeport exit/entrance to hwy, traffic slows to almost a grinding halt sometimes due to merging in from vehicles wanting to get onto the bridge/hwy. I usually always just stay on the left lane until I'm almost off the bridge to merge right to get onto marine drive. It's a common occurance in that area.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:52 PM   #16
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I conjecture that the officer didn't ticket your mom for failing to stop for police because she pulled over only after turning left. The officer ticketed your mom because she was driving in an oblivious manner to her surroundings and did not pull over when required. He was probably driving behind her for quite some time with the cherries going without her pulling to the nearest curbside lane. Thus he required using the siren to get her attention, which officers don't normally use to pull someone over.
Given that she DID stop eventually, if this was his intent, the appropriate charge would have been something more like "drive without due care".

If the law simply required drivers to stop immediately, everyone would be just putting on the brakes and stopping in the middle of the road. Rather, it requires drivers to "come to a safe stop" and in the heat of the moment, what's "safe" to do on the road is at least partially subjective.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:42 PM   #17
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Old 06-26-2012, 06:52 AM   #18
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If the law simply required drivers to stop immediately, everyone would be just putting on the brakes and stopping in the middle of the road. Rather, it requires drivers to "come to a safe stop" and in the heat of the moment, what's "safe" to do on the road is at least partially subjective.[/QUOTE]

The guy I encountered on a open 4 lane roadway who slowed down when I hit the lights, hit the gas, turned up a side street, down a narrow alley and into a driveway (of a house where he didn't live) at the end of the dead end street...told the JP something like that. JP didn't accept that explanation....but he did direct him to the court office where they did accept cash, cheque or debit/credit cards.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:35 AM   #19
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I've had instances where when the cops turned on the flashers, I didn't stop right away, but continued until I found a sidestreet to pull into and stop. It depended on traffic concentration, time of day, what lane I was in, etc.

If the PO ever asked, I'd list to him every reason why I didn't just slam on the brakes and sit on the side of the road.


I've never been hassled by the PO after my explanations. Ever.
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:16 PM   #20
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POs are just like everyone else. They go through the same bullshit with traffic, life, people, etc as we do. And when they are not working, they have to eat it, just like we do.

When dealing with an PO, I just use courtesy and common sense. READ: COMMON SENSE. Not SPEEDING THROUGH AN INTERSECTION CUZ I WOKE UP LATE FOR WORK Sense.

And most of the time, they either let me go, or give me a lighter ticket.

They are people. They use common sense too. They assess situations as required as well. So For them to give you shit, you REALLY gotta have fucked up somewhere (not saying u have).

Sometimes, they make mistakes. I had a ticket one time at 2am in Langley, for a u-turn at an advanced green when the road was COMPLETELY empty for miles.
At court, the PO apologized because he found out I was there looking for my stolen car, and he said too, that "well, the ticket was unnecessary. There wasn't even anyone there. Sorry"

But hey, sometimes, there'll be that 1 prick.

I'd ask you mom again, from where to where she was travelling, and how many streets she passed before she turned, etc. Then determine if she should dispute or not.
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