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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Quick grandpa, fire off some shots inches from that womans head in a crowded room. Great, cross that one off the list.
Now make sure you follow them, and fire a shot through an open door into the street. Did that too? Perfect.
Grandpas hand isn’t looking to steady there. So what happens when in trying to save the day good ol gramps empty’s a woman’s skull while trying to save the 50 bucks in his pocket?
Another reason why gun owner ship should be limited, and people with this level of common sense shouldn’t own one.
(Not sure if the video on CNN is showing what Im seeing, cant get it to work. Just watch “Elderly Man shoots at two robbers inside internet café” on youtube)
Do you work for a news agency, because that's exactly what a reporter would say.
At no time did I see him aim remotely close to anybody that wasn't a robber, he had total control, and his stance was great.
Shooting into the street? He was shooting towards the sidewalk at one of their legs.
Saving 50 bucks in his pocket? I'm pretty sure he was more fearful for his fucking life you idiot.
Do you work for a news agency, because that's exactly what a reporter would say.
At no time did I see him aim remotely close to anybody that wasn't a robber, he had total control, and his stance was great.
Shooting into the street? He was shooting towards the sidewalk at one of their legs.
Saving 50 bucks in his pocket? I'm pretty sure he was more fearful for his fucking life you idiot.
You’re entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. No need for name calling.
If your cool with it, that’s up to you. I for one would have a real problem with this if it was one of my family members in that room with him. The chances of anyone actually getting shot in a robbery like this are so small it’s ridiculous. Once someone pulls out a gun and starts firing, those chances go through the roof.
Its all good to say “His stance was perfect, he had good aim, he’s probably ex military”, all it takes is the woman beside him to move sideways suddenly in the confusion, or someone to be standing behind the targets he is shooting at for this to be a totally different and very tragic situation. Im glad he had total control, I assume you were in the room when that happend to be able to tell that. What was it like?
Using a fire arm in a small room with a group of confused and scared people is a HUGE risk to take, period. Shows very little common sense in my opinion.
I seem to have hit a nerve with you, so much so you have resorted to name calling. Any talk about guns and gun laws usually does, which I find funny. Shouldn’t people in favor of more guns and less gun restriction (which I assume you are, but I could be wrong) show how level headed they can be, and not how quickly they can fly off the handle?
(EDIT because Im too nice. I took out the part calling you an ass hat for calling me an idiot. )
Normally, I would say this old guy shouldn't have fired..
But, American's live in an age where you don't know what the fcuk could happen. What if the robbers didn't just take the money and then started firing on everyone anyway? How is the old guy supposed to know?
From the video it looks like the old guy knew exactly what he was doing. He waited until the robber's back was turned on him then the old guy fired. That fat lady wasn't that close and from the aim of the grandpa his line of sight was directly at the robber. I'm surprised he missed from that range.. But, from firing weapons I know they aren't easy to shoot.
I probably wouldn't have opened fire if I was armed.. But, that's just me. Just because this grandpa did, doesn't mean I think he was in the wrong though. You just never know what could happen. You gotta protect your own.
You’re entitled to your opinion, I’m entitled to mine. No need for name calling.
If your cool with it, that’s up to you. I for one would have a real problem with this if it was one of my family members in that room with him. The chances of anyone actually getting shot in a robbery like this are so small it’s ridiculous. Once someone pulls out a gun and starts firing, those chances go through the roof.
Its all good to say “His stance was perfect, he had good aim, he’s probably ex military”, all it takes is the woman beside him to move sideways suddenly in the confusion, or someone to be standing behind the targets he is shooting at for this to be a totally different and very tragic situation. Im glad he had total control, I assume you were in the room when that happend to be able to tell that. What was it like?
Using a fire arm in a small room with a group of confused and scared people is a HUGE risk to take, period. Shows very little common sense in my opinion.
I seem to have hit a nerve with you, so much so you have resorted to name calling. Any talk about guns and gun laws usually does, which I find funny. Shouldn’t people in favor of more guns and less gun restriction (which I assume you are, but I could be wrong) show how level headed they can be, and not how quickly they can fly off the handle?
(EDIT because Im too nice. I took out the part calling you an ass hat for calling me an idiot. )
I don't like the idea of a criminal having access to an illegally aquired weapon, and yet a law abiding citizen that just wants to protect himself does not. It simply does not make any logical sense to me, the fact that I can't use deadly force to protect myself is criminal.
There is nothing level headed about our gun laws, and the media shaming guns does not make it any better. It's a machine, it's up to the user to decide what to do with it. That applies to almost anything that can kill a person, scissors can kill someone, yet you can still walk around with them if you want.
Cars can kill just as easily, if not easier than a single hand gun, it can also kill more people at the same time, yet millions of people use them to commute every day.
Nothing makes sense about our gun laws, there are so many other methods of killing someone that have nothing to do with guns, yet they are not regulated in any way.
Every day, I see people complaining that gun laws should be more strict. The simple fact that people seem to overlook is;
CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW
Passing a LAW that bans something only applies to those that obey it, that does not include criminals that intend to kill people. What I want, is the ability to carry a firearm with me to protect myself, I'll take whatever courses you have to throw at me.
Our gun laws are there to protect a criminal's ability to take advantage of people.
I don't like the idea of a criminal having access to an illegally aquired weapon, and yet a law abiding citizen that just wants to protect himself does not. It simply does not make any logical sense to me, the fact that I can't use deadly force to protect myself is criminal.
There is nothing level headed about our gun laws, and the media shaming guns does not make it any better. It's a machine, it's up to the user to decide what to do with it. That applies to almost anything that can kill a person, scissors can kill someone, yet you can still walk around with them if you want.
Cars can kill just as easily, if not easier than a single hand gun, it can also kill more people at the same time, yet millions of people use them to commute every day.
Nothing makes sense about our gun laws, there are so many other methods of killing someone that have nothing to do with guns, yet they are not regulated in any way.
Every day, I see people complaining that gun laws should be more strict. The simple fact that people seem to overlook is;
CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW
Passing a LAW that bans something only applies to those that obey it, that does not include criminals that intend to kill people. What I want, is the ability to carry a firearm with me to protect myself, I'll take whatever courses you have to throw at me.
Our gun laws are there to protect a criminal's ability to take advantage of people.
And flat out, I think you’re wrong. Carrying a fire arm has been shown over and over again to NOT make you any safer. In the video posted, the first person to fire shots is the old man, the robbers didn’t fire until they had gotten out of the building. If they had the intention of killing going in, people would have been dead the minuet the old man started shooting. He was the one who escalated it. He was the one who made it more dangerous for everyone else involved.
I’m not by any means excusing what they did, longer and harder sentences (in Canada) are something I am strongly for. However, North America has lost much of its common sense, more hand gun ownership is not going to help, it will make things worse.
The idea that if someone has a gun out aimed at you and INTENDS on killing you, that you will have time to pull out a weapon and fire on them first is ludicrous. Life doesn’t work like the movies.
George Zimmermans gun was legal, and according to him, he was defending himself. Guns don’t kill people, People do. But I think the gun helps. You’d have to be pretty sad it in the heart department if I just yelled “bang” at you and you died, no?
Your argument doesn’t make sense to me, as everything else you have listed has a purpose other than killing. By that measure, we should all just sit in padded rooms all day. Hand guns are made for one thing, to kill people. Period, that’s it. Why shouldn’t there use and owner ship be limited in the extreme?
You’re not going to change my mind, I’m not going to change yours. But look at it this way, there is a whole country that runs to your way of thinking, the USA is all about it. It scares the hell out of me that some Canadians so desperately want to be like our southern neighbor, even as we watch how many problems they have with guns.
The simple fact is, the easier it is to get a gun, the more guns are available to those who would use them illegally. No gun starts out as “illegal” they were all purchased and owned at one point by proper, safe, law abiding gun owners.
"The simple fact is, the easier it is to get a gun, the more guns are available to those who would use them illegally."
You're forgetting that criminals use guns that have been smuggled into the country, they don't go out to their local gun shop. The thought that a criminal could even aquire a license to purchase a firearm is laughable, you can not buy a firearm if you've been convicted of an offence.
"Your argument doesn’t make sense to me, as everything else you have listed has a purpose other than killing. By that measure, we should all just sit in padded rooms all day."
Guns have purposes outside of killing, you're acting like every gun owner only wants to kill. I said that I wanted a gun on me to protect myself, I didn't say that I wanted to kill someone.
I'm a target shooter, but I've seen far too many instances where a gun could have saved lives.
"The idea that if someone has a gun out aimed at you and INTENDS on killing you, that you will have time to pull out a weapon and fire on them first is ludicrous. Life doesn’t work like the movies."
There is nothing anyone can do in that situation, that's not my beef, the purpose of this entire arguement is based on the assumption that you're in a situation where you have the time to react. In that case, I want a gun on me.
I personally wouldn't feel safe if I knew everyone around me had a gun.
Maybe it's just because I've never experienced much more than a Chav in London pulling a knife on me. I've never been in a situation where I felt like a gun would've saved my life or the people around me, especially not in Vancouver.
I'm not anti-gun, actually I'm quite the opposite - I love guns. I've been trained on, and have fired many different types of handguns, rifles, assault rifles, machine guns, shotguns - and I'm not talking about going down to Vegas to go shooting.
But maybe I'm sheltered and I've never experienced violence towards me before.
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honestly,from the video the pistol looks like a Walther PP .22LR,its so small with barely any kick one handed......no wonder why the criminals didn't die from the shots.
if the old guy had a 45. acr pistol these wouldn't be standing back up again.
In what scenario will having a gun actually protect or save the owner's life?
It's a tool, it's there to be used if you need it. There is no situation where a gun is guaranteed to save your life, it's completely up to chance as to whether you're going to have the time to pull a gun and use it.
If I don't have the tools, I can't solve the problem that needs them. Nothing about a situation like that is ideal, you either take the chance of being killed, or you take the chance of taking out the threat.
I would rather die knowing that I did everything I could to survive, over knowing that I had nothing to defend myself with. It's personal preference, and I would simply feel safer with a gun at my side.
I support concealed carry, not open carry, the entire point of carrying a gun is to have the element of surprise.
It's a tool, it's there to be used if you need it. There is no situation where a gun is guaranteed to save your life, it's completely up to chance as to whether you're going to have the time to pull a gun and use it.
If I don't have the tools, I can't solve the problem that needs them. Nothing about a situation like that is ideal, you either take the chance of being killed, or you take the chance of taking out the threat.
I would rather die knowing that I did everything I could to survive, over knowing that I had nothing to defend myself with. It's personal preference, and I would simply feel safer with a gun at my side.
I support concealed carry, not open carry, the entire point of carrying a gun is to have the element of surprise.
fighting fire with fire, by pulling out a gun in a situation like that does more harm that good. You just created a situation for yourself and became a threat for the robbers, naturally wouldn't they want to take you out? Like other people here said, the senior is lucky they were punks and didn't sporadically shoot back. I respect your personal preference but allowing people to carry concealed weapons is a bad idea, then everybody wants to be a hero.
fighting fire with fire, by pulling out a gun in a situation like that does more harm that good. You just created a situation for yourself and became a threat for the robbers, naturally wouldn't they want to take you out? Like other people here said, the senior is lucky they were punks and didn't sporadically shoot back. I respect your personal preference but allowing people to carry concealed weapons is a bad idea, then everybody wants to be a hero.
If only more people stood up to crime. What these punks are banking on, is that for people to do nothing; which understandably IS the natural course of action by everyone.
My point is to leave it to the professionals, could you guarantee everyone's safety by shooting off your firearm? To teach some punks kids a lesson or to prevent theft of a few dollars is not worth the loss of life, unfortunately There are consequences to your actions in reality.
My point is to leave it to the professionals, could you guarantee everyone's safety by shooting off your firearm? To teach some punks kids a lesson or to prevent theft of a few dollars is not worth the loss of life, unfortunately There are consequences to your actions in reality.
This would be great if every citizen is assigned a police officer to guard them at all times. Sadly due to realistic conditions, the police are a reactionary force. They respond after a crime has taken place. The Aurora, Colorado tragedy is an example of the police's inability to protect us from immediate threats.
Part of your argument is that it's not worth defending yourself with lethal force from petty theft. I agree. However if a criminal is wielding a gun, how are you sure he's not going to use it? Many victims have been shot in theft crimes who were not trying to defend themselves.
You mention safety as a concern for legal gun owners. Two parts of the basic four firearm safety rules you are taught in any course are do not point your muzzle at anything you do not intend to shoot, and always be aware of your target's foreground and background. In this video this man followed these rules.
I mentioned the Aurora, Colorado tragedy so I should clarify that event. The movie theatre was marked as a private "gun free zone". It holds no law, but the ownership of the property may ask any citizen carrying a gun to leave. The shooter therefore knows that none of his victims will be carrying. Sick, criminally minded people want to prey on defenseless victims. This is why the majority of mass murderers target crowded public spaces rather than police stations.
The shooter also purchased all of his guns legally. This could be used as an argument in favour of gun control. However remember that his apartment has been reported to be wired with enough explosives to take down his whole building. If this man did not have access to guns, he could have just as easily perpetrated the tragic event using explosives, likely with more victims.
The police did not arrive on scene until after the tragedy had taken place. Once again they are a reactionary force. They cannot protect you from horrible shooting rampages that take place in minutes. Gun control doesn't stop horrible people from wanting to kill others, and they have easier access to more harmful weapons like explosives. Gun control only prevents law abiding citizens from protecting themselves in situations where no one else can.
My point is to leave it to the professionals, could you guarantee everyone's safety by shooting off your firearm? To teach some punks kids a lesson or to prevent theft of a few dollars is not worth the loss of life, unfortunately There are consequences to your actions in reality.
Could the professionals guarantee otherwise?
The point is, the societal standard is to sit and do nothing. That's understandable. Why? because yes the professionals are far better equipped to resolve crisis' with a far better outcome. I get that.
But if someone other than law enforcement wants to stand up to these 2-bit criminals in a time when nobody would stand up for each other because nobody here would even stand up for themselves... well, that is a quality I WILL ALWAYS applaud.
Here's some food for though. It's not something I support or am against, but just a thought:
These low end criminals are banking their success on our self-expectation of civility.
1. That money is not worth the risk of anyone's lives.
2. That we as a society are anti-conflict.
Is it possible that the further we surrender our right and our instict to defend ourselves, our peers and our property at the threat of the above, that we as a society are just promoting these criminals to just go further and rob other people.
Are we not putting others at risk as our apathy encourages this behaviour; this opportunity?
I still hold a very very very anti-firearm sentiment, but the above does get me thinking. It's not as black and white as the anti-gun party likes to make it sound.
Furthermore, I would never in the life of me ever want to own a gun, feel the need to want a gun, nor could I ever take the life of a living being; but if someobody is going to stand up for me because some lowlife wants to take advantage of my civility... that individual will ALWAYS have my thanks.
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