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Old 08-01-2012, 10:04 PM   #1
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Intersection rights

Today driving on kingsway, I was at the intersection waiting for a left turn, and once the yellow light came on I checked and a evo sped out. so I finished my turn after he past by.

but that wasnt the problem, the problem was that, on the incoming lane there was an audi q5 waiting for left turn too, she also finished the turn AND after she finished a bmw decided to run the light ( at that point i m not sure if hes running yellow or red ) the Bmw was actually at a full stop because he had no speed what so ever behind the q5 waiting for a left turn.

but anyways, I was already trying to finish my turn because the evo ran the yellow, so I looked at the guy thinking wtf? and he decided to give me this hand gesture of (wtf are you doing blocking my way)

now, I know the person left turning is always wrong if any collision happens with the person trying to run yellow light, but in this case, am I still at fault? I mean fuck, he came out after the q5 made a left turn on yellow light which I think he should be lucky he didnt get a camera ticket.

but I m not sure as well so I gotta ask.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:09 PM   #2
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I'm not sure if I'm tired, or your writing is horrible.

But I think I understand what you are trying to say. The EVO and BMW ran a stale yellow. The BMW, behind the oncoming left lane (not dedicated) - was behind the Q5 and decided to gun it.

Either way, if you have no witnesses or camera for proof that they ran stale yellows, it's pretty much the left turner's fault.

That's why I know, myself personally, I won't make a left until I'm absolutely, positively sure its' safe.
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subordinate View Post
I'm not sure if I'm tired, or your writing is horrible.

But I think I understand what you are trying to say. The EVO and BMW ran a stale yellow. The BMW, behind the oncoming left lane (not dedicated) - was behind the Q5 and decided to gun it.

Either way, if you have no witnesses or camera for proof that they ran stale yellows, it's pretty much the left turner's fault.

That's why I know, myself personally, I won't make a left until I'm absolutely, positively sure its' safe.
my writting is horrible, I dont even know how to explain this situation.
so it typed out, all retarded.


so What I m trying to say is pretty much the q5 and i waited for a yellow light to turn safely, after the Q5 made her turn. a car behind her decided to come out to the intersection. and at that time I have not finished my turn Because there was a evo that ran the yellow light previously (middle lane beside the left turn lane on Q5 side)

hope this makes more sense =S lol
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Old 08-01-2012, 11:35 PM   #4
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Ahh, that's better. Lol. Thanks.

Yeah, if you have no witnesses to state the BMW ran the very very stale yellow. It's pretty much your fault - Being the left turn always yields.

And the BMW driver could lie, right?

It's good that you waited and were defensive. Taking the extra 2 seconds is better than a pounding.
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:56 AM   #5
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Ahh, that's better. Lol. Thanks.

Yeah, if you have no witnesses to state the BMW ran the very very stale yellow. It's pretty much your fault - Being the left turn always yields.

And the BMW driver could lie, right?

It's good that you waited and were defensive. Taking the extra 2 seconds is better than a pounding.
it was around 3 ish in the afternoon so its filled with cars thats why I had to wait for yellow light.

But the bmw driver was behind the white lines so technically isnt he at fault?

I know intersections where 2 or even 3 cars takes left turns when it should only be 1 for a yellow light. but this car decided to go straight. which I never actually seen, first time encountering this.
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:17 AM   #6
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Rule number one...when using a yellow to help you make a left turn...be the only vehicle in the intersection...in other words, wait until the vehicle in front of you has cleared the "intersection" ( the area bounded by the inside lines of the crosswalks) then, if the light is still green you can move in there and wait to turn. Your mistake was being the second vehicle in the intersection..for the very reason you found. Fortunate that you were not hit.


The law says you cannot enter an intersection on a red OR yellow light....unless you are so close to the yellow that you cannot stop safely before the stop line/crosswalk etc. Sitting back behind the stop line and then entering on the yellow is illegal and unsafe...for the reasons you found. If there had been a crash then it's likely that ICBC would have found all drivers responsible. Hwy 19 thru Duncan on Van Island is notorious for exactly this type of crash. Over 100 a year there because more than 1 vehicle gets into the intersection and waits, then gets hit by the cars coming thru or get rear-ended by stopping suddenly while trying to avoid.

Last edited by zulutango; 08-02-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:19 AM   #7
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hey zulu, what about the intersection of Vanness Ave & Rupert St. in Vancouver? it's a flashing green on rupert and 2 stop signs coming from both sides of Vanness. Often I see when a pedestrian hits the crosswalk lights to cross rupert and the flashing green goes red, cars from Vanness blast through like they have right of way without obeying the stop sign and coming to a stop. If an accident were to occur they would be at fault for running the stop sign, correct?
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:41 AM   #8
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again there is little info here but it also sounds like op started to turn in the oncoming lane because the other left turn car was blocking that lane but she made the turn first thus opening the lane and then op was now the one blocking oncoming traffic. if i understand this right then op needs to realize you NEVER turn into oncoming lanes until you are actually making your turn. your not even supposed to turn your front wheels in case you get rear ended and end up pushed into oncoming traffic. you see this mistake 10 times a day. if the bmw felt they had enough time to go after the other person made the left then op would be clearly in the wrong.
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Old 08-02-2012, 09:57 AM   #9
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im not sure that i understand your writing but ill try

i dont think it would be your fault if the bmw is turning right on a yellow light, its my understanding that the right turner iss supposed to stop on a yellow light and let you (the left turner) to finish your turn and when its safe the bmw can proceed with his turn when its safe

isnt that why cops give right turners tickets for not stopping at a yellow?
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:30 PM   #10
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This is how I understand it...

Oncoming traffic, Q5 waiting to turn left in left lane, BMW behind Q5 wanting to go straight. Light turns yellow, Q5 turns, and you turn after EVO runs light in middle lane, but as you're turning, the BMW decides he doesn't want to wait another light cause he's pissed that he got stuck behind a left turner so he guns it after that person turned and almost hit you.
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:56 PM   #11
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FINALLY LOL
what WING WOO said was correct.
fuck is my english that bad? hahaha

and zulutango I was the only one waiting for a turn.

so according to what wing woo said, am I at fault?
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:06 PM   #12
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I think you"re at fault unless he runs a red. It's tough when you're trying to make a turn but you're not supposed to be in oncoming traffic lane unless you're confident you can clear it. That and fucktards delibarately running yellows from a full stop. That's why I always turn on my signal one block away to give people behind enough time to switch.
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:11 PM   #13
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I would assume it be your fault, like what the others had said previously. Left turner always at fault.

I hate to thread jack, but I don't feel like starting a new thread. So the other day, I was making a left turn on a green light at an intersection into the inside lane[2 lane traffic]. But at the same time some guy turning right on oncoming traffic also tries to take the lane I'm suppose to be in. If he hit me or I hit him would it be my fault or his fault?
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Old 08-02-2012, 05:16 PM   #14
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Turning left against oncoming traffic - ICBC

PDF file from ICBC and some example court rulings
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:23 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by GLOW View Post
hey zulu, what about the intersection of Vanness Ave & Rupert St. in Vancouver? it's a flashing green on rupert and 2 stop signs coming from both sides of Vanness. Often I see when a pedestrian hits the crosswalk lights to cross rupert and the flashing green goes red, cars from Vanness blast through like they have right of way without obeying the stop sign and coming to a stop. If an accident were to occur they would be at fault for running the stop sign, correct?
Sorry, I'm not familiar with that intersection. In general...stop at red lights! Stop at stop signs! Then proceed if legal and safe. What you described sounds like neither.
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:25 PM   #16
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I would assume it be your fault, like what the others had said previously. Left turner always at fault.

I hate to thread jack, but I don't feel like starting a new thread. So the other day, I was making a left turn on a green light at an intersection into the inside lane[2 lane traffic]. But at the same time some guy turning right on oncoming traffic also tries to take the lane I'm suppose to be in. If he hit me or I hit him would it be my fault or his fault?
Who was into the intersection first? First in has right of way. Who turned into what lane? You must turn into the closest open legal lane first.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #17
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tbh I think its quite bs.. the fact that he was behind his white line and at a complete stop he decides to run a light after the person infront of him just finished a left turn? thats wacked..

If that's where he is and the light turns yellow and he enters the intersection, he broke the law.


Sorry...edited your post by mistake. ZT

Last edited by zulutango; 08-03-2012 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:23 PM   #18
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I would assume it be your fault, like what the others had said previously. Left turner always at fault.

I hate to thread jack, but I don't feel like starting a new thread. So the other day, I was making a left turn on a green light at an intersection into the inside lane[2 lane traffic]. But at the same time some guy turning right on oncoming traffic also tries to take the lane I'm suppose to be in. If he hit me or I hit him would it be my fault or his fault?
This sounds like something I see regularly (as in, just about every damn time I'm using this intersection) at Lougheed Hwy. and Harris Rd. in Pitt Meadows: pitt meadows - Google Maps

Harris southbound is two lanes. Traffic turning left from Lougheed westbound onto Harris southbound is, from my understanding, required to turn into the left-most lane, and if they want to be in the right lane, they would then signal and move over when safe. As far as I'm aware, it's illegal to turn directly into the right lane.

If this is the case, then traffic turning right from Lougheed eastbound SHOULD be able to make the turn safely (after coming to a complete stop at the red, of course) while the oncoming traffic is turning left, as theoretically, no left turners should be entering their lane until after they've completed their turn.

What happens, though, is that a lot of people want to turn into the shopping plaza right there, the entrance of which is half of a very short block from the intersection... or they want to turn right on McMyn Rd., which is a very short block from the intersection... so they just swing wide into the right lane (the sharp angle of the intersection doesn't help matters). So you get a LOT of near-collisions and a LOT of horn-honking going on there... if not the two turners honking at each other, then the people lined up in the right-turn lane honking at the guy holding up the line because he doesn't know he's allowed to turn.

Just today, in fact, I turned left from Lougheed onto Harris, into the left lane as required, then signalled and attempted to move into the right lane so I could turn right on McMyn... and nearly creamed the car that HAD been behind me turning left, who had turned directly into the right lane and tried to accelerate past me on the right.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:31 PM   #19
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If the BMW entered the intersection on a yellow and hit you, he'd likely be the one at fault, providing you were already in the intersection when the light turned yellow.

Then again if you're turning on a yellow and the oncoming car runs the yellow and hits you, you may be partially at fault for failing to yield.

This is part of the problem with our short yellows and a very short time where all directions are red - everyone's in such a hurry to get out of the intersection and that's when the crashes happen.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:34 PM   #20
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This is part of the problem with our short yellows and a very short time where all directions are red - everyone's in such a hurry to get out of the intersection and that's when the crashes happen.
Blah blah blah.

How is it light timing gets all the blame with you, when the real problem is THE IDIOTS WHO ARE IN SUCH A HURRY TO GET OUT OF THE INTERSECTION?
It doesn't matter how long you make the yellow - make it five minutes, you'll still have a steady stream of assholes who keep cruising through until they see cross-traffic start to move.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:34 PM   #21
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Lane discipline is a lost art here and the police seem unwilling to enforce it and intersection safety cameras are incapable of enforcing it.
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Old 08-02-2012, 10:41 PM   #22
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Blah blah blah.

How is it light timing gets all the blame with you, when the real problem is THE IDIOTS WHO ARE IN SUCH A HURRY TO GET OUT OF THE INTERSECTION?
It doesn't matter how long you make the yellow - make it five minutes, you'll still have a steady stream of assholes who keep cruising through until they see cross-traffic start to move.

I agree that there are idiots who are in too much of a hurry, but you have to take into consideration human nature when engineering light timings.

People very rarely enter an intersection on a red, and most drivers are too inattentive to realize .5 seconds has been added to the yellow and red phases of the light sequence.

It would be an extremely small minority of drivers who think "gee, I get an extra half second to run this light now, I think I'll gun it and go".

Show me a study that rebuts all the examples of intersection collision reductions when yellow light timings are set appropriately and I'll consider shutting up


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Old 08-03-2012, 07:34 AM   #23
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Nahhhhh you won't.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:40 AM   #24
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tbh I think its quite bs.. the fact that he was behind his white line and at a complete stop he decides to run a light after the person infront of him just finished a left turn? thats wacked..

If that's where he is and the light turns yellow and he enters the intersection, he broke the law.


Sorry...edited your post by mistake. ZT
If the person did hit you, your best bet in your situation is to get witnesses. ICBC will look at the location that person hit you and how much damage incurred. If he started from a stop, the damage would not be too significant cause I don't think he can gain enough speed yet. The key is witnesses.

However, with that being said, it's in ICBC's best interest to make both of you 50/50 though which is what I think they would fight for in their ruling so that both of your insurance rates go up. This is one of those situations that even with witnesses, they can easily pin the blame on both parties.
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Old 08-03-2012, 10:42 AM   #25
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If the person did hit you, your best bet in your situation is to get witnesses. ICBC will look at the location that person hit you and how much damage incurred. If he started from a stop, the damage would not be too significant cause I don't think he can gain enough speed yet. The key is witnesses.

However, with that being said, it's in ICBC's best interest to make both of you 50/50 though which is what I think they would fight for in their ruling so that both of your insurance rates go up. This is one of those situations that even with witnesses, they can easily pin the blame on both parties.
fucking scammers, icbc.
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