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Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only.

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:35 AM   #1
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ID Question

1. When do you have to legally present your ID to an officer? Say I was just walking down the street and minding my own business....

2. Can someone explain what's going on in this video to me....
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:12 AM   #2
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"Soverign citizens" are a bunch of Cop hating, violent nut jobs who go out of their way to confront and bait Police to respond. They then vent about how the Cops hassled them for no reason. Do a bit of a google search. I'm not going to even bother watching the video.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
"Soverign citizens" are a bunch of Cop hating, violent nut jobs who go out of their way to confront and bait Police to respond. They then vent about how the Cops hassled them for no reason. Do a bit of a google search. I'm not going to even bother watching the video.
"I'm not going to even bother watching the video" That is just being ignorant. The people in this video weren't "violent nut jobs". Now I don't know all the laws but if they are lawfully doing their own business as they say so then why the arrest? because the cops in the video themselves don't know their own laws?


If the description is true, it says they were dropped on all charges.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:20 PM   #4
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So under section 176 of the CCC, a clergyman does not have to follow the MVA?
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:18 PM   #5
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^ Yeah, I don't get it either.... I still don't understand what's happening in the video... Sovereign citizens= clergymen? The guy in the video makes it out to be a bigger deal than being first nations...(in terms of freedom and exclusivity)
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Old 08-06-2012, 04:53 PM   #6
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Under the MVA, everyone who is detained by a police officer for an MVA or MVAR offence, MUST present their driver's licence, and registration to a police officer. If the driver does not, the police officer can give him a Violation ticket for failure to produce a driver's licence.. Section 33(1)Fail to produce driver’s licence or insurance $81 fine.

section 70(1)(b) of the MVA also states

Use of another's licence or permit; failure to permit inspection

70 (1) A person commits an offence if the person, while driving, operating or in charge of a motor vehicle on a highway does any of the following:

(a) uses or is in possession of

(i) a permit, certificate, motor vehicle liability insurance card, financial responsibility card or consent issued or given under this Act and belonging to another person, or

(ii) a fictitious or invalid permit, certificate, motor vehicle liability insurance card, financial responsibility card or consent purporting to be issued or given under this Act;

(b) refuses or fails to produce a subsisting driver's licence, permit, certificate, motor vehicle liability insurance card, financial responsibility card, or consent issued to him or her under this Act when requested by a peace officer or constable to do so, or refuses or fails to permit it to be taken in hand for the purpose of inspection by the peace officer or constable.

(1.1) A person commits an offence if the person uses or is in possession of

(a) an identification card belonging to another person, or a fictitious or invalid identification card purporting to be issued or given under this Act, or

(b) a driver's licence belonging to another person, or a fictitious or invalid driver's licence purporting to be issued or given under this Act, whether while driving, operating or in charge of a motor vehicle on a highway or not.

(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) (a) commits an offence and is liable to a fine of not less than $100 and not more than $2 000 or to imprisonment for not less than 7 days and not more than 6 months, or to both.

(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1.1) is liable to a fine of not less than $400 and not more than $20 000 or to imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or to both.

Section 129 of the Criminal Code of Canada states

Everyone who
a)resists or wilfully obstructs a public officer or peace officer in the execution of his duty or any person lawfully acting in aid of such an officer,

b)omits, without reasonable excuse, to assist a public officer or peace officer in the exectuion of his duty in arresting a person or in preserving the peace, after having reasonable notice that he is required to do so, or

c)resists in wilfully obstructs any person in the lawful execution of a process against lands or goods or in making a lawful distress or seizure

So under the criminal code, if the Police officer is not satisfied that you are either not the person you say you are, or if you refuse to identify yourself, in turn obstructing his ability to do his job, you can be arrested for obstruction.

Last edited by 10-9; 08-06-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 08-06-2012, 06:50 PM   #7
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lol at 2:16
cop tells guy to pull over.. the driver is like, ok as long as you dont do harm.. WTF, this aint the U.S. son..


Why is he being a retard... so he being a man of "god" he doesnt have to follow the law?!?!?!
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodeus View Post
"I'm not going to even bother watching the video" That is just being ignorant. The people in this video weren't "violent nut jobs". Now I don't know all the laws but if they are lawfully doing their own business as they say so then why the arrest? because the cops in the video themselves don't know their own laws?


If the description is true, it says they were dropped on all charges.

I have had dealings with this group before and they are like I described. They deliberately break the law, confront Police, sometimes violently ( even here on Van Island) attack Police, then post videos of how they were innocent and unjustly dealt with by Cops. I've seen many of their videos and, like stepping in dog crap, I don't have to taste it to know what it is.

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/pu...reign-citizens

Last edited by zulutango; 08-07-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 08:59 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by zulutango View Post
like stepping in dog crap, I don't have to taste it to know what it is.
i'm liking your analogies
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Old 08-07-2012, 09:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodeus View Post
"I'm not going to even bother watching the video" That is just being ignorant. The people in this video weren't "violent nut jobs". Now I don't know all the laws but if they are lawfully doing their own business as they say so then why the arrest? because the cops in the video themselves don't know their own laws?


If the description is true, it says they were dropped on all charges.
This idiot had an attitude right from the get go......no...he wasn't a violent nut job, but he was a nut job. YOU go out and deal with them in your "job" ......get YOUR experience with them..then talk again......
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:06 AM   #11
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waste of my 15 mins of life listning to that crap.
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:38 PM   #12
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at work cant watch the video.

but for your first question, no you do not have to provide ID if they request it if you are just minding your own business. The best thing to say is "Are you detaining me or am i free to go" Demand a proper answer, cops give a lot of bullshit gray area answers on purpose. You want to hear them say either, I am detaining you, or you are free to go.
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Old 08-07-2012, 02:01 PM   #13
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Where I live, pedestrians must provide identification to a peace officer when requested (municipal bylaw).

If your driving, you have to produce your DL and provide it in hand to the officer, as well as state your date of birth, address and full name.
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:16 PM   #14
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i dont give cops trouble. they ask for a name, i give them my name. if i make it harder for them, they will come back and make it even harder for me.

i mean alot of people say cops are pigs and all, but every time ive been pulled over, i just dont act like im being a hero and crack a joke every now and then and ive always gotten warnings.


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officer : were you headed off too?
me : to my girlfriends house to get "some." * smile*
officer : alrighty then... have you had any drinks?
me: nope. cuz i cant perform if i do
officer : * chuckle* YOU MAY PASS
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:21 PM   #15
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Ive only dealt with these guys twice. There main objective is to undermine law enforcement and just be a general annoyance.
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Old 08-08-2012, 03:41 PM   #16
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Essentially they believe that everyone should just be good and do good on their own without government, because "nobody should have authority over any other, and we all know how to act well and kindly and properly to each other".

And then they raise as much hell as they can whenever anyone tries to make them follow the rules at which point they turn into giant asshole douchebags.
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:02 PM   #17
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this guy is a moron who wastes peoples time and should go to jail because thats what he deserves
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Old 08-09-2012, 10:11 PM   #18
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I am very impressed at how patient this police officer was in the video.

This video deserves a facepalm.
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Old 08-10-2012, 02:48 PM   #19
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lol wow....douchebag.
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Old 08-10-2012, 03:56 PM   #20
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I think these people want to test the police officer's knowledge on people's rights and public law.

Apparently and obviously the officer questioning him has no idea on which law or criminal code he is acting on.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if driver's refuse to provide identification, officers are suppose to run the plates on their computer, see what name the car is registered under. And then go ask them their name, which they must provide verbally. If it doesn't match the name on the computer, they will ask who's car this is? etc. etc. What's is owner's name. etc .etc. If all questions are answered wrong, then they have reasons of suspicion to arrest the man for stolen vehicle and so on.

And isn't there somewhere on your registration that says you must provide license in order to operate the vehicle? And by law, every car must be registered.

Last edited by mr_chin; 08-10-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 08-10-2012, 06:37 PM   #21
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what an idiot, wasting everyone's time
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Old 08-10-2012, 07:51 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by mr_chin View Post
I think these people want to test the police officer's knowledge on people's rights and public law.

Apparently and obviously the officer questioning him has no idea on which law or criminal code he is acting on.

Correct me if I am wrong, but if driver's refuse to provide identification, officers are suppose to run the plates on their computer, see what name the car is registered under. And then go ask them their name, which they must provide verbally. If it doesn't match the name on the computer, they will ask who's car this is? etc. etc. What's is owner's name. etc .etc. If all questions are answered wrong, then they have reasons of suspicion to arrest the man for stolen vehicle and so on.

And isn't there somewhere on your registration that says you must provide license in order to operate the vehicle? And by law, every car must be registered.

If a court process is being initiated then the driver is required to identify himself so thart the process can be completed. Without that, you are obstructing under the criminal code. The MV Act requires the driver to produce the DL, hand it to Police and answer questions about the information on the DL. Police are NOT required to check the computer if the driver refuses to comply. The driver also has to produce the registration when requested under the same processes. Any vehicle on a "highway" must be licenced and insured and plates displayed on it. What happens from the identification of the driver depends on what is found....same from the registration.
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Old 08-11-2012, 12:20 PM   #23
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Quote:
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So under section 176 of the CCC, a clergyman does not have to follow the MVA?
OK, I was confused, so I went reading.

Quote:
176. (1) Every one who
(a) by threats or force, unlawfully obstructs or prevents or endeavours to obstruct or prevent a clergyman or minister from celebrating divine service or performing any other function in connection with his calling, or
(b) knowing that a clergyman or minister is about to perform, is on his way to perform or is returning from the performance of any of the duties or functions mentioned in paragraph (a)
(i) assaults or offers any violence to him, or
(ii) arrests him on a civil process, or under the pretence of executing a civil process,
is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years.
Marginal noteisturbing religious worship or certain meetings

(2) Every one who wilfully disturbs or interrupts an assemblage of persons met for religious worship or for a moral, social or benevolent purpose is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
Marginal note:Idem

(3) Every one who, at or near a meeting referred to in subsection (2), wilfully does anything that disturbs the order or solemnity of the meeting is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
So this douche is arguing that he doesn't care about the MVA, setting up a straw man argument that the police officer is impeding his ability to perform service as a clergyman.
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Old 08-12-2012, 05:49 AM   #24
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I love how these goofs claim that the laws dont apply to them, and then they try and use Sec 176 to make their point. It's amazing any one of them think that it will work and the police will just let them go on their way. Go back to montana....
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