Has Apple Really Ever Invented Anything?

[SkinnyPupp]

Rounded corners on a tablet. Frivolous.

[dangonay]

^ No comprehension of how the patent is worded before commenting? Stupid.

[SkinnyPupp]

Apple was required to provide Samsung with alternatives to copying their patents. They said that the screens should not be black, and the corners not be rounded.

Frivolous.

[twstd_reality]

One day apple will die and be scrounging for cash. Then some company will just come along and scoop them up - along with all their patents and start all this shit all over again. Apple is akin to all those patent hungry trolls you see in the tech industry who do nothing but buy patents and sue multiple companies at the same time. Their goal? To get paid to go away even if they know they'll lose.

[FerrariEnzo]

The fact that Apple is suing, is that they prolly are out of ideas on what to make next.. haha...

[Tim Budong]

This have a lot to do with apple protecting their image than just patents. If their mindset is to have people associate the black rectangle with an iOS device, they will fight to make that happen.

[dangonay]

^ Of course they are. Which company wouldn't protect their trade dress? Apple has a responsibility to fight - if they don't then they can lose their rights to the trade dress.

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Apple was required to provide Samsung with alternatives to copying their patents. They said that the screens should not be black, and the corners not be rounded.

Frivolous.

Samsung made slight modifications to the Galaxy Tab and it no longer infringes (according to the German court). It still looks like a Galaxy Tab, it's still a rectangle and it still has rounded corners. Yet it no longer infringes. Trade dress is very specific - yet people always like to say "Apple owns the patent on rectangles", which is not true.

Another thing people like to do (as evidenced in this thread) is talk about minor things like rectangles while ignoring the other issues in this case. As they say, there are bigger fish to fry, and Apple's IP is far stronger with their technical patents as opposed to their trade dress. Then again, it's tough to argue with technical patents as opposed to "look and feel", so people like to steer clear of those patents and recycle the same old "Nobody is allowed to have a rectangle with rounded corners except Apple."

Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo

The fact that Apple is suing, is that they prolly are out of ideas on what to make next.. haha...

The fact that Samsung is copying, is that they prolly run out of ideas on what to make next.. haha...

Doesn't matter which side you're on, it sounds stupid either way.

[Ronin]

Are you guys following the trial?

I think the issue right now is Samsung has all this shit that says "The iPhone is awesome. Why isn't the Galaxy Whatever as awesome? Make it awesome just like the iPhone."

It'll be interesting to see when Samsung goes on the offensive.

[abdulclamwacker]

Originally Posted by MG1

Who is this guy?

Put horns on him and give him a red complexion, LOL.

Haaaah, he's hiding his "ass chin"..

[goo3]

Originally Posted by willystyle

Like one poster mentioned, Samsung makes $12 billion dollars by sourcing semiconductors to Apple.

How is my analysis one-sided?

Answered already in the part you snipped:

"All that's happening is this: Cooperating on the value chain, competing on the product. Samsung knows it. Apple knows it."

Both are willing participants, yet one side is to be blamed. There's no logic here, only haterade.

Apple is also infringing on other's patents, yet they don't take Apple to court. That's the BIGGEST difference. Essentially, you have one big bully on the playground that loves to harass smaller kids.

Apple's was once the little victim being sued over by the established players into settlement, with much less publicity apparently. For better or worse, the patent-bully game you are seeing is not new. Where do you think they and everyone else learned to play it? It's almost like a rite-of-passage being passed on generation to generation. The tech-world did not just begin in 2010. You either blame everyone who does this or no one.

[Meowjin]

lol this thread is funny

[Manic!]

Funny thing is Samsung is using Apples money to fight the lawsuit.

[goo3]

Originally Posted by Ferra

True, but their claim is more like: We have a design patent that is A) multitouch screen, B) Rectangular shape, C) rounded edges, D) Button at the top and side, E) built-in-cameras, and without F) keypads.

All these stuffs are still pretty fucking generic if you ask me!

What do you want the competitors to do?? Make a round shaped phone?? Do sharp square edge?? (It won't be practical coz that square edge will get damaged much easier)
Multi-touch screen is the trend. Do you see TV manufacturers start suing each other when the trend switched from 4:3 TV to 16:9 TV??

I found a ton of tablet designs from different companies that are rectangular with rounded corners and buttons. All I did was google tablet computer patent, LOL. I found that more useful than reading a lot of what's in this thread, TBH. Maybe the problem is Apple's designs are simple, and simple has been what's working lately. So, patents being too generic stopping others from doing anything isn't the problem here.

https://www.google.com/?tbm=pts#hl=e...w=1920&bih=968

For example:

Apple:


Two other companies:
etc...

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Are you guys following the trial?

Samsung is getting raped. The consensus seems to be that Samsung wants a mistrial, hung jury because of too much information or a loophole to file an appeal, all to delay the inevitable for another year or two. Their law firm can't be that incompetent, so people think it must be calculated.

Imagine you're at a murder trial and it's discovered the defendant cleaned his house and threw out a couple bags of garbage. They are long gone to the incinerator so nobody knows what was in those bags. Now imagine the judge telling the jury that "you can assume there was evidence in those garbage bags that was beneficial to the prosecution". How do you think the jury would take that?

This is exactly what's happened to Samsung. They were required to preserve e-mail as evidence for this trial, but they failed to not once, but twice. Their excuse is "our e-mail system deletes old e-mails automatically after two weeks". Apparently they never told anyone to make sure to specifically save their e-mail. Imagine a corporation as large as Samsung not even bothering to keep e-mail for more than two weeks.

So the judge will literally be instructing the jury that they can assume the deleted Samsung e-mails contain evidence beneficial to Apple.

And this is only one of the many screwups on Samsung's side.

[Meowjin]

So the judge will literally be instructing the jury that they can assume the deleted Samsung e-mails contain evidence beneficial to Apple.

Fucking for real dude?

You post nothing but pro-apple bullshit.

There is nothing wrong with liking what you buy but you take it to the next level.

[dangonay]

^ vs the half-dozen people posting anti-Apple BS? I've called several out and the best they can come up with is "Apple is suing over rectangles". Really shows people's ignorance in this case.

Nothing I've posted is BS. If you disagree then feel free to prove me wrong.


BTW, here's the jury instruction in full:

"Samsung has failed to prevent the destruction of relevant evidence for Apple's use in this litigation. This is known as the 'spoliation of evidence.'

I instruct you, as a matter of law, that Samsung failed to preserve evidence after its duty to preserve arose. This failure resulted from its failure to perform its discovery obligations.

You also may presume that Apple has met its burden of proving the following two elements by a preponderance of the evidence: first, that relevant evidence was destroyed after the duty to preserve arose. Evidence is relevant if it would have clarified a fact at issue in the trial and otherwise would naturally have been introduced into evidence; and second, the lost evidence was favorable to Apple.

Whether this finding is important to you in reaching a verdict in this case is for you to decide. You may choose to find it determinative, somewhat determinative, or not at all determinative in reaching your verdict."

Not the end of the world for Samsung, but not looking good either.

[CP.AR]

old article, but quite an entertaining read

The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

[Tim Budong]

Dragonay is the biggest fucking apple fanboy on this forum
the thing is, all his replies make sense...whereas the truth is that some ppl here just talk about the rectangle.

but what do I know, im just watching the world crumble with this lawsuit

oh yea, NONE OF THIS will affect how Samsung operates in Canada or the rest of the world. Its because Apple can flex their muscles on homesoil which is why this is going on

[willystyle]

Originally Posted by goo3

Answered already in the part you snipped:

"All that's happening is this: Cooperating on the value chain, competing on the product. Samsung knows it. Apple knows it."

Both are willing participants, yet one side is to be blamed. There's no logic here, only haterade.

Both are working partners. Apple initiates and sues Samsung. Why should Samsung pull out of a 12 billion dollar deal over ridiculous claims set by Apple? No haterade. Simply logic.

Apple's was once the little victim being sued over by the established players into settlement, with much less publicity apparently. For better or worse, the patent-bully game you are seeing is not new. Where do you think they and everyone else learned to play it? It's almost like a rite-of-passage being passed on generation to generation. The tech-world did not just begin in 2010. You either blame everyone who does this or no one.

I am not questioning its tactic, moreso the reasons.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

Dragonay is the biggest fucking apple fanboy on this forum
the thing is, all his replies make sense...whereas the truth is that some ppl here just talk about the rectangle.

but what do I know, im just watching the world crumble with this lawsuit

oh yea, NONE OF THIS will affect how Samsung operates in Canada or the rest of the world. Its because Apple can flex their muscles on homesoil which is why this is going on

Apple is suing them in other countries too including Japan and many countries on Europe.

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

Dragonay is the biggest fucking apple fanboy on this forum
the thing is, all his replies make sense...whereas the truth is that some ppl here just talk about the rectangle.

As long as I've been on RS I've always played Devil's Advocate. It promotes more interesting discussions. I've argued in support of many things over the years, yet have never been called a "fanboy" until I started arguing in Apple's defense.

There's a unique phenomenon on the internet now surrounding Apple. People used to hate IBM. Or Intel or Microsoft. Over the years haters from different generations have had their favorite company to rag on. These days it's Apple.

It's become so pervasive that an entire industry of "clicks & hits" for websites is built around Apple. The formula is simple. If I run a tech site or blog, all I need to do is make a post about Apple. Maybe how much money they made, a spyshot of their upcoming phone, or the biggest dog bone around - mentioning Apple suing someone. Even better is to intentionally make the title of your article slightly misleading to further infuriate the haters.

This is guaranteed to bring in a flurry of people posting all kinds of garbage. There are also the Apple defenders present, but they are significantly outnumbered by the haters - a fact easily proven by a quick visit to any of the "neutral" (non Apple or Android specific) tech blogs and scanning the comments and doing a running tally for each side. Even funnier is the complete denial of the haters that this is true (I guess none of them know how to count). Regardles, the websites don't care. They just sit back and watch the traffic to their site go up. More traffic = more money.

Personally, I like to get a rise out of the haters. Of course, not everyone who dislikes what I say is a hater, but with people throwing around the same tired old arguments and memes, it's hard to take a lot of them seriously.

Originally Posted by darthchilli

but what do I know, im just watching the world crumble with this lawsuit

oh yea, NONE OF THIS will affect how Samsung operates in Canada or the rest of the world. Its because Apple can flex their muscles on homesoil which is why this is going on

The world is not going to crumble. The big news of today from the trial is the announcement by Apple that Microsoft has licensed their iPhone/iPad/iOS IP for use in their phones and the Surface tablets. They have an "anticloning" clause so MS can't make exact copies, but they are still able to use Apple IP to improve their products.

Way back before the lawsuits started, Apple also offered these same patents to Samsung (this is the reason they brought up the MS licensing in court). Samsung declined and now they're in court. Microsoft licensing Apple IP brings validity to their patents - why would MS pay money to license something that was "invalid" or "shouldn't have been granted"?

When this case is over Samsung will have to pay for past infringements and will likely make a deal with Apple to license their IP as well. Or even more likely, they'll do some cross-licensing.

The world will continue on as before and we'll still have lots of different phones and tablets to chooes from. And the people responsible for various IP (Apple, MS, Samsung, Motorola, Qualcomm......) will get compensated for their IP.

[LiquidTurbo]

iPad $500

Samsung SmartTV $2000

Spending hours valiantly defending a company involved in a lawsuit which depending the outcome has no net effect to you, nor company does not belong to you - priceless.

[CP.AR]

this thread was a great read while i was on the throne.

[Culverin]

apple just tried to patent the smart cover concept already announced in the Windows Tab 8.

And they just tried to patent the dual shock controller.


People used to hate on M$ because they were dicks with their anti-competitive lawsuits. They stopped doing that and focused on actually trying to make decent products. So the hate stopped.

When Apple decides to stop abusing the patent system, i'm pretty sure the hate will stop too.


There's never been any love lost between Apple and myself. It's their prerogative to create a closed non-competition system on their own platform. I never liked them for it because it think it caters to the lowest-common denominator consumer base and I'm ever but that. However, despite that, I did respect their company philosophy of creating a unified end user experience.

It's one thing to grab patents in a broken system and then license them out to other companies. That's what an ethical business practice would look like.
It's another thing to take advantage of the idiots in the patent office then to use your market leader position to bully everybody else.


Apple use to be ok in my books, but not to my liking. They created closed environments. And while they would do things like locking down a piece of hardware, they weren't all that bad. Until they started doing things like bricking phones with updates, suing the company making hackintoshes, aiming for vague patents then trying to block the competition through the legal system.
Now I think they are just being a douchebag of a company. They even refuse to license their patents for fair use.
They are stifling competition by outgunning the other parties with ill-earned patents and threats of lawsuits.


For every Android device sold, Google pays a certain royalty to microsoft for patents used. As a staunch google fanboy, you don't hear me crying foul about this because those patents are realistic, well conceived and well earned.


At some point in my life, I would have paid for an Apple device if they made one that fit my use philosophy of open platform. Now they went from that to aggressively locking you out of the hardware to being the playground bully.


Until this attitude changes, as an informed consumer they will not get a cent from me to help enable, reward and further this behavior.

[Ver.Mitsubishi]

i guess appl is suffering from poor leadership these days