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Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Technical Discussion > Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech

Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech This forum is brought to you by The Speed Syndicate (TSS) in Burnaby.
Discussion of maintaining your engine, transmission, differentails, rear ends, and mods associated with "driveline" parts..

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Old 09-21-2012, 07:51 PM   #1
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The vanishing oil trick....Whaa?

Looking for some advice/help/opinions.
My car is going through oil like crazy, but i do not see any type of smoke coming out the tail pipe while idling/driving.

1998 Honda Civic EX V-tech
180,000km on the button.
regular oil changes done at 6k km.
daily driven (city) easy driving.
Spark plugs look good, compression across all 4 were within spec.
Nblue, white, black smoke out the tail pipe. (from what i could see while driving anyways.)
Absolutly no oil leaks anywhere else around the engine.

I gave it a fresh oil change/new filter last friday and Just did another one today.
The red arrow is where my oil was after i did the oil change last friday, and the green arrow is where the oil was today before i drained it. So i went through that much in about 400km

The second picture is the oil after one week of driving (395km) is it normal to be this dark?

And the last picture, i put a piece of paper 18" from my tail pipe and at idle i blipped the throttle twice and thats what came out. but its not a wet substance, more powdery. kinda

Im thinking the piston rings or valve seals...?
Kinda want to have an idea of what i need to be fixing before i pull the motor apart.

Thanks!
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:06 PM   #2
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Oil looks...okay/normal, I guess?

What kind of oil are you using? I ask because the previous owners used to run Castrol Syntec 0W30 in my M3 and while it was a nice clean oil, the oil burnt very easily in the summer and it would go through a quart every month.

I ended up switching to Motul 5W40 (as per factory recommendation) and so far, so good. Have you checked your valve cover gaskets or replaced them?
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:30 PM   #3
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Black soot on bumper? Does it smear?
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:54 PM   #4
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I used to use 5W30 all types of oil, but usually Quakerstate Synthetic. But I switched to 10W30 in hopes to go through less. Didnt work.

Yes, Black soot on bumper and yes it does smear...awesome on clothing :S

And i've replaced the valve cover gasket about 6000km ago

Last edited by jepho; 09-21-2012 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:15 PM   #5
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go to aircare certified shop and get them to do a tail pipe reading, u can tell if its burning oil that way
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Old 09-21-2012, 11:17 PM   #6
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My guess is that's the valve guide seals are worn out. You see black/blue smoke in the higher rpm range or after a long deceleration.
The soot that's smearing on ur rear bumper is a good indication of oil burning or getting sucked into the combustion chambers.
If the oil control rings are worn out you'd see blue smoke coming out the tail pipe and the plugs would show that.
Good luck with your car. My GSR did the exact same thing. Ended being worn valve guides and seals.
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
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go to aircare certified shop and get them to do a tail pipe reading, u can tell if its burning oil that way
won't be able to tell if its oil burning from the readings. Oil is HC but different HC from fuel. I know it is all oil based and should be the same, but its not. At least thats what i learn from the aircare course i took years back.

And at that age and milage on a civic, i'd be surprised if it wasn't burning oil. At least a little anyways
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:57 PM   #8
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OP. Have you changed the PCV valve? Try that only a few bux and a few min to do yourself. Might be plugged and causing problem.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:32 PM   #9
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Yup, have changed the PCV valve already.

I think I'm going to start with valve guide seals, and while I'm at it do the head gasket and surrounding seals. As well as adjust the valve lash and take it from there. I'm just hoping its not the piston rings...
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Old 09-23-2012, 09:55 PM   #10
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Reminds me of my old del Sol. The thing went through a quart a week. Spark plugs were fresh, PCV valve done, and oddly enough, compression was great. Culprit was the valve seals, as well as a nice crack in the head gasket.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:00 PM   #11
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Reminds me of my old del Sol. The thing went through a quart a week. Spark plugs were fresh, PCV valve done, and oddly enough, compression was great. Culprit was the valve seals, as well as a nice crack in the head gasket.
I'm hoping that's all it is in my case. Easy enough fix.
I really don't want to have to pull the pistons to do their rings if the problem persists.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:56 PM   #12
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Yup, have changed the PCV valve already.

I think I'm going to start with valve guide seals, and while I'm at it do the head gasket and surrounding seals. As well as adjust the valve lash and take it from there. I'm just hoping its not the piston rings...
If you have the proper tools and know how, you can do the valve seals with out taking the head off.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:06 AM   #13
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Head does not need to come off for valve seals but if guides are shot then head needs to come off.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:36 PM   #14
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Picking up the parts today after work, going to hopefully do it over the weekend.
I'm going to pull the head and replace the head gasket and do a once over on the whole engine anyways and replace other seals/gaskets while i'm at it.
I figure mind-as well.

hopefully it will fix the issue. Ill let you know!
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Old 10-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #15
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So did the work this weekend.
Adjusted the valve lash... and wow what a difference. no more annoying ticking.

Replaced the valve seals, head gasket, and all surrounding seals/gaskets. Put it all back together and it started up perfectly.
Hardest part of the whole thing was getting at the timing belt tensioner. lol Way easier than I expected.

All seems (or seemed) well....
Till today i was on may way home and the car threw a CEL 45 (Running rich or lean)
what the hell would cause this from the work I did?
My primary O2 sensor is no more than 5 months old.... bad secondary or cat perhaps?
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:58 PM   #16
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if the belt is a year or older, i find you don't have to loosen the t-belt tensioner. There's usually enough slack in the belt so you can slip in off and on the cam sprocket.

2 things come to mind with lean running code. 1-Timing belt is off a tooth.
Or, 2- when you pulled the head off, did you take the intake manifold off with the head and never seperated the two? Or did you unbolt the intake manifold and leave it behind in the car when the head came out? I'm asking cause when i pull the heads off these civics, i do the later. Unbolt the manifold from the head and leave the manifold sitting under the hood. The intake manifold gasket almost always gets torn or damaged and has to be scraped off and replaced. So maybe a vacuum leak there?
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:12 AM   #17
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Possible Vacuum leak i suppose, didn't think of that..its a place to start checking anyways. i did remove the manifold from the head though i did clean the surfaces to a shine and put on a new gasket.
and i'm almost certain the belt is at the same spot it came off of (marked its location before removal)
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #18
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is the oil still disappearing?
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:42 PM   #19
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is the oil still disappearing?
I will let ya know on Friday. putting it through a 1 week test
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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checked for vacuum leaks... no leaks.
i tulled the throttle body off and gave it and the IAC valve a good clean with break cleaner.
put it all back together reset the ECM and now its running perfect, No codes.

After seeing the build up of crap on my IAC i would definatly suggest to give it a good clean every so often. On mine, the little screen on it was basically completely clogged with contaminates.

I still have a feeling im going through a bunch of oil, leading me to believe it is the rings. I will check later tonight.
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Old 10-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #21
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still going through oil at the same pace. car seems to be running smoother after the work though. Put new plugs in and are showing normal wear...

Still no clue what the issue is. I guess the piston rings is what's left
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:12 PM   #22
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:15 PM   #23
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With honda's, more often than not, its burning past the rings.
Has the rich/lean running code come back or been good?
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Old 10-12-2012, 06:32 PM   #24
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rich/lean code came back for 2 days then went away.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:06 PM   #25
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double check your valves, they might be to tight. if they are silent, they are too tight causing the valves not to close all the way. some ticking is normal for honda engines.
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