Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[thebrownboy]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

"Wait to buy"

Two of my best friends ground out a life in Alberta for the past 5 years, could have bought a house where they wanted 2 years ago and actually been able to afford it.

Same houses right now are 250k+ more than at that time, they lost all their buying power and now have to stay working in Alberta. You think those houses are going to lose that 250k in the next 5? Highly doubtful.

"Wait to buy"

I will say though, personally it is going to be fucking suhweeeeeeet if the crash ever does come. Man what a house I will have lol

What did they do with the money they were going to use to purchase the house?

They could've invested it and got the same return as the increase in the house price. Even if it did not come back down, they could still purchase the house because their money went up also.

The whole point of waiting to buy is to see if prices come down at all but don't just sit on the money. Invest the money. If they do come down then great, you can purchase and you'll have some money left over extra now too. If they don't, then your investment rose equally with the price of the home and you can still purchase it either way. Don't sit on the money and it won't affect you.

Looks like a win-win situation to me. Only way to lose is if you aren't doing something else with the money instead.

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by thebrownboy

invested it and got the same return as the increase in the house price

If there are investments that yield the same ROI as our RE market, with the same degree of risk, I'd be all ears.

[rb]

I've had a few beers so this may make fuck all sense but... I've been looking at the local real estate market in general like a stock. Prices seem to be breaking through all sorts of resistance levels even in the shittiest areas or properties.

Should shit somehow hit the fan though, price support level bids will probably still be around to eat up stock should prices drop even slightly. Them Mainlanders have provided large amounts of actual cash to the locals that the money will be floating around for re-investing for awhile.

I'm gonna go have another beer...

[meme405]

I ended up buying a detached home in N.Van right at the start of this year as an income property.

Fuck the rest of you, keep those mainlanders coming, drive that price through the roof, fucked if I care...

Spoiler!

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by thebrownboy

What did they do with the money they were going to use to purchase the house?

They could've invested it and got the same return as the increase in the house price. Even if it did not come back down, they could still purchase the house because their money went up also.

The whole point of waiting to buy is to see if prices come down at all but don't just sit on the money. Invest the money. If they do come down then great, you can purchase and you'll have some money left over extra now too. If they don't, then your investment rose equally with the price of the home and you can still purchase it either way. Don't sit on the money and it won't affect you.

Looks like a win-win situation to me. Only way to lose is if you aren't doing something else with the money instead.

Honestly, your point makes sense if the situation was almost anywhere else other than Vancouver

I don't know what you do for a living, or how much you make, but how much do you invest and what's your return like? If you're telling me you can get the same return as in increase in house price, you should write a damn book and make millions. How much money and how long does your investments need to make $100k? because people are buying houses and selling them BEFORE they are even sold for a quick million dollars.

Waiting for that drop? Have fun waiting though.. like I said before, if the market drops 50%, its still unaffordable. 50%!!

[Nlkko]

Originally Posted by rb

I've had a few beers so this may make fuck all sense but... I've been looking at the local real estate market in general like a stock. Prices seem to be breaking through all sorts of resistance levels even in the shittiest areas or properties.

Should shit somehow hit the fan though, price support level bids will probably still be around to eat up stock should prices drop even slightly. Them Mainlanders have provided large amounts of actual cash to the locals that the money will be floating around for re-investing for awhile.

I'm gonna go have another beer...

If you're looking at it like that, price rise in a parabolic pattern, there's no base (support) whatsoever as price never did back-test. So if it turn the other way, then air pocket until there's bidder.

Market is in euphoria with bidders at 10-30% ask with FOMO everywhere (just look at Hondaracer's post lol--just an example, no offense to you at all). It's a dangerous stage that warrant caution.

There is nothing wrong with waiting, not playing if risk/reward is currently not there. There's a lot of other vehicle you can invest in with appropriate risk/reward level for you.

[winson604]

The right time to buy is when you're ready and I was ready so I went full steam ahead end of story for me.

[Timpo]

Real estate flippers driving city to ‘economic ghost town’ status
By Peter Ladner
Feb. 23, 2016



https://www.biv.com/article/2016/2/r...nomic-ghost-t/

As I watched the round-the-clock outrage that followed recent Globe and Mail revelations of “shadow flipping” in the Metro Vancouver real estate market (nothing illegal, mind you), it struck me anew why people feel smacked by the soaring Vancouver real estate market.

The flipper buying the sucker property, be it a real estate agent or whoever, had access to a market of buyers unknown to the selling agent or the seller. The price went higher because of shadow buyers playing by different rules.

This piles onto the palpable frustration of renters, newcomers and growing families watching the region’s most prized real estate – multi-bedroom detached homes in desirable locations – shoot out of range. Yes, we all know that there are affordable homes of various sizes and shapes out there beyond the Most Preferred Location zones. But the preferred properties are going to people with capital, often not people dedicated to living, working and raising families here. That’s what our current rules dictate.

And then the wannabe homeowner does the quick math: limited land base, growing population, our “world-class city” reputation on too many top-three real estate market lists, clean air, stable government, OK economy, housing supply that can’t keep up, stagnant wages, average prices 10 times local incomes, and we’re still cheap by global standards. It all adds up to a whole new swath of local people who aren’t already in the game, or who don’t have rich parents or an inheritance or a suitcase brimming with cash from another country, being left behind. They know it and they feel powerless.


Even surviving in the rental market has become a new challenge. A friend got 90 responses to her ad for a basement suite in Kitsilano. She said choosing a tenant was like picking a Rhodes Scholar. What do ordinary people do? When investors pay what one expert called “insane” prices for rental properties in the West End, rent increases can’t be far behind.

This is growing inequality moving in with shackles: more people having less chance of climbing the equity ladder. The deeper frustration is being sentenced to a commuter existence to make room for someone who may not even live here or pay income taxes here.

Sure, there’s a sense of expectation and entitlement at play here, but the anger and anxiety among young working people vital to the health of our economy and society are real. Hootsuite CEO Ryan Holmes, who depends on such people, wrote recently that “Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town, a city with no viable economy – other than the service industry catering to wealthy residents and tourists.”

These valued young people are getting the message: live somewhere else where your skills and education deliver more than your inheritance.

It’s true that low interest rates, quantitative easing and faltering supply are making housing similarly unaffordable in many other cities around the world (Vancouver is only the third most unaffordable city in the few countries surveyed by Demographia), but that doesn’t make our pain any less real.
Whether it’s a surtax on luxury homes offset by income, as proposed by a group of University of British Columbia and Simon Fraser University economists, or a stamp duty on foreign buyers (as in Hong Kong and the U.K.) or outright restrictions on foreign ownership of certain properties (as in Australia, Alberta and Prince Edward Island) or different property transfer tax rates for non-residents or a progressive property tax rate, it’s past time for a co-ordinated government effort that gets beyond the delusion that a $280,000 annual increase in average property value is “painstakingly” earned.

More supply alone won’t do it.

We can’t stop the demand to buy property in this city, but we can at least try to slow it down, subdue it with stricter tax enforcement, extract more from non-resident investors and send a message that this province is open for business, not speculation.

Peter Ladner (pladner@biv.com) is a co-founder of Business in Vancouver. He is a former Vancouver city councillor and former fellow at the SFU Centre for Dialogue. He is the author of The Urban Food Revolution.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Canada is a socialist country and the people who have created these programs are not stupid,

no it isn't, and yes they are.

canada is socialist in some senses, and completely capitalist in others - just look at the mess that is real estate and lack of affordable housing, this is not part of the mandate of a socialist country

you want sickening socialism, go to europe, you don't want to work, and want a roof over your head and food on the table, that's fine, government is there for you.

if you lose your job in canada, what do you get, EI, you think you can survive for 5 years on EI (doesn't it run out).

not saying canada is wrong, i'm as capitalist as i can, but canada isn't factually a socialist country - it taxes your income like one, but doesn't provide the safety net of one

[dat_steve]

Originally Posted by 4444

you want sickening socialism, go to europe, you don't want to work, and want a roof over your head and food on the table, that's fine, government is there for you.

Greece, case in point lol

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by 4444

no it isn't, and yes they are.

canada is socialist in some senses, and completely capitalist in others - just look at the mess that is real estate and lack of affordable housing, this is not part of the mandate of a socialist country

you want sickening socialism, go to europe, you don't want to work, and want a roof over your head and food on the table, that's fine, government is there for you.

if you lose your job in canada, what do you get, EI, you think you can survive for 5 years on EI (doesn't it run out).

not saying canada is wrong, i'm as capitalist as i can, but canada isn't factually a socialist country - it taxes your income like one, but doesn't provide the safety net of one

My point about Canada being a socialist country was that if a crash in the housing market were to happen, the government would step in and run deficits and/or provide assistance to ensure people remain employed and are able to remain in their homes. Canadian governments have historically run deficits with aplomb to ensure that a decent standard of living is maintained for the average Canadian.

If you're talking about politicians, I won't comment on that. But, I would argue that the policy architects and the people who work in the souless offices with shitty equipment are far smarter than they're given credit for. Most public programs, like taxpayer-backed home mortgage insurance schemes, have an incredible amount of risk management built into them. In fact, it's often argued by people inside the system that there's not enough risk management and that the SOP is risk avoidance.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by thebrownboy

What did they do with the money they were going to use to purchase the house?

They could've invested it and got the same return as the increase in the house price. Even if it did not come back down, they could still purchase the house because their money went up also.

The whole point of waiting to buy is to see if prices come down at all but don't just sit on the money. Invest the money. If they do come down then great, you can purchase and you'll have some money left over extra now too. If they don't, then your investment rose equally with the price of the home and you can still purchase it either way. Don't sit on the money and it won't affect you.

Looks like a win-win situation to me. Only way to lose is if you aren't doing something else with the money instead.

The average person still invests using high-priced instruments, like mutual funds. Even if you were applying a low-cost index or ETF strategy, your investments would have taken a hit over the past year. Unless you're savvy at picking individual companies (most people aren't), you're likely taking a hit on your investments right now.

If you're young and single, the supply of rental housing is adequate, provided you're able to live in 400 square feet or want to share space with roomies. If you're a couple and/or have young ones in tow, living in a condo is doable, but even rents on 2-bedroom units in desirable locations in Metro Vancouver are nearing 2000/month. If you have a 100-150K in equity, the difference between renting and owning becomes less clear, particularly with interest rates below 3%. Even if you're renting in Vancouver or Burnaby, you still need a car if you have kids and you're still spending time on the road commuting to work.

My point is that if you have no equity and no plans to ever meet someone/start a family, renting and investing the rest can be a sound strategy over the long-term. But, if you opt to follow the herd, then your views about real estate may change.

[Timpo]

B.C. real estate council names panel to investigate 'shadow flipping'
Independent advisory group to prepare report and recommendations by the end of May
CBC News Posted: Feb 22, 2016 4:52 PM PT Last Updated: Feb 22, 2016 5:01 PM PT

B.C. real estate council names panel to investigate 'shadow flipping' - British Columbia - CBC News


The real estate council's advisory group, tasked with investigating the practice of "shadow flipping." (RECBC)

The Real Estate Council of British Columbia has named the members of an independent advisory group that will investigate the practice of shadow flipping that became the subject of controversy earlier this month.

Shadow flipping is the practice of selling a property several times by reassigning the sales contracts before their closing date. The price of the home goes up each time. Details of the practice were revealed in a Globe and Mail investigation earlier this month.

"I believe we have a highly qualified team with the expertise to undertake this important work. These are independent thinkers from across a broad range of public and private organizations, with a clear understanding of good governance and the public interest," said the group's chair, Carolyn Rogers.

"I want to assure the public that we understand their concerns and we're determined to provide a report that puts consumer protection first."

Rogers is also the superintendent of real estate and the CEO of the Financial Institutions Commission FICOM .

The members of the advisory group are:

Howard Kushner, Barrister and Solicitor, Kushner Law Group
Don Wright, President and Chief Executive Officer, Central 1 Credit Union
Audrey T. Ho, Commissioner, British Columbia Securities Commission
Bruce D. Woolley Q.C., Stikeman Elliott
Carol Geurts, Associate Broker, Century 21 Veitch Realty, Creston, BC
Tony Gioventu, Executive Director, Condominium Home Owners' Association of BC
Ron Usher, General Counsel, Society of Notaries Public of British Columbia
The group will provide an interim report to the real estate council by April 8, and a full report with recommendations by the end of May.

The review will examine how the council identifies and responds to alleged licensee misconduct and whether conduct requirements are adequate and effectively enforced.

[Digitalis]

Timpo posting 10 articles a day on housing and jobs instead of body kits wtf is world coming to?! Seems like if you have long hair you can't belong to the real estate council. Lolz

[GLOW]

real estate is the new GTR
i'm still waiting on his pics of mod'd houses...which i guess would be renos

[PeanutButter]

Does anyone have experience with investment rental condo's?

I'm looking to purchase in Langley, Maple Ridge, etc. Budget is about $140k

I figure I can get about $800 in rent a month based on compatibles on CL.

Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing or know a knowledgeable realtor. I found some online, but if RS know's some people, that would be cool too.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

Does anyone have experience with investment rental condo's?

I'm looking to purchase in Langley, Maple Ridge, etc. Budget is about $140k

I figure I can get about $800 in rent a month based on compatibles on CL.

Does anyone have experience with this sort of thing or know a knowledgeable realtor. I found some online, but if RS know's some people, that would be cool too.

Realtor?

You should be looking for a property management agency.
If you purchase real estate solely for investment purpose, I would personally recommend you hiring a property management agent. (you need to do your own homework to see who to hire, obviously)

If you rent it out by yourself, posting ad on craigslist, finding a tenant, making up your contract, and if tenant doesn't pay, you would personally have to go there and kick them out. If they cause damage, you would have to send them an invoice and/or sue them...or if they don't pay on time, all the other headaches that comes with it for being a landlord.

So it would make sense to hire a "middle man" so you can just sit on couch and collect paycheque.

[Hondaracer]

Having a management company manage your one $800 per month property is going to cut into your profit big time.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Having a management company manage your one $800 per month property is going to cut into your profit big time.

I thought they would just take percentage? Not a flat rate?

[ST184]

Most management company I've research on are based on a percentage and usually with a minimum monthly rate.

Also to note, that is just the monthly cost for them to be the middle man. If you want them to advertise, screen the tenants, etc - all the upfront stuff. they usually charge you a leasing fee which is normally 50% of one month’s rent.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Timpo

Realtor?

You should be looking for a property management agency.
If you purchase real estate solely for investment purpose, I would personally recommend you hiring a property management agent. (you need to do your own homework to see who to hire, obviously)

If you rent it out by yourself, posting ad on craigslist, finding a tenant, making up your contract, and if tenant doesn't pay, you would personally have to go there and kick them out. If they cause damage, you would have to send them an invoice and/or sue them...or if they don't pay on time, all the other headaches that comes with it for being a landlord.

So it would make sense to hire a "middle man" so you can just sit on couch and collect paycheque.

Timpo, do you have experience in this area?

[Digitalis]

Timpo sounds like a professional to me!
Ps. do any of you guys realize how hard I have to work at dealing with construction mayhem year after year for a paltry 250k+/year?

Originally Posted by Gumby

Timpo, do you have experience in this area?

[Harvey Specter]

I own a few condos and a house which I rent out and I've never used a management company. The process of renting to someone is pretty straight, just follow some basic rules and use your common sense. I personally don't trust 3rd party companies to management tenants for me, I like to be hands on and know who I am renting to and all checks were done correctly.

If any of you need free help or have any questions regarding renting your places out just shoot me a PM.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Digitalis

Timpo sounds like a professional to me!
Ps. do any of you guys realize how hard I have to work at dealing with construction mayhem year after year for a paltry 250k+/year?

Do you know how many dicks a hooker has to suck for a paltry 250K+/year?

[dat_steve]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Do you know how many dicks a hooker has to suck for a paltry 250K+/year?

too many variables. we'd need to define the constants and assumptions here with the goal of maximizing tip to tip efficiency.