DOUBLE Fatal accident on Lions Gate Bridge

[Graeme S]

Just to be clear, this is not a "shit on dead peoples' lives" thread. Discuss the incident, not the decedents.

[mittZ]

Originally Posted by NBPTL6o4

I don't even wan start another arguement about dope dealing.... But come on, don't judge a man from his past, I admit I aint a dam saint but I turned my life around and am now a full time student, I am hearing nothing but positive things about these guys on my fb feed and some are truly devestated, it was uncessary to put that link up anyways, such a pointless thing to do, if u guys wan prove to everyone ur a saint, go give us the link to ur cso/gov files before u go judge others
Posted via RS Mobile

of course you'll hear nothing but how he was a "good dude" on fb, those comments will be coming from his friends and family. this isn't a r.i.p. thread, even still i'm not applauding anyone for spitting on the guy's memory but it's not "pointless" to point out facts from his troubled past.

[Zoidberg]

Originally Posted by NBPTL6o4

I admit I aint a dam saint but I turned my life around and am now a full time student
Posted via RS Mobile

School: none

[mittZ]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

Just to be clear, this is not a "shit on dead peoples' lives" thread. Discuss the incident, not the decedents.

how can you discuss a fatal accident, without discussing the guy who caused it?

i realize people on here actually knew the deceased and sensitivities are going to run high but censoring discussion around the guy isn't going to help anyone whether theyre grieving or just want answers.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by mittZ

how can you discuss a fatal accident, without discussing the guy who caused it?

i realize people on here actually knew the deceased and sensitivities are going to run high but censoring discussion around the guy isn't going to help anyone whether theyre grieving or just want answers.

In the same was we can talk about the victim of a serial killer without focusing on the fact that she perfectly fit his profile.


If I die in a traffic accident from what may have been a momentary lapse of judgement, I would very much hope that people would do the same. While people may choose their actions; single individual actions do not always make a person. Even when it is their unbecoming.

[Rdk1]

Cars sides usually aren't meant to withstand the impact of more at more than 140km/h. For the passengers, going from 80+km/h (albeit sideways) to -50km/h (backwards) usually means fatal. Even if the car is made to have no give and didn't crumple, that sudden change in speed would kill you.

I'm willing to go out and say that the mazda was going in triple digit speeds when it occured.

What I'm trying to say is, there's almost no chance of survival for the passengers inside the mazda, in ANY passenger cars.

I know of the passenger. We attended the same church.

Drive safe everyone.

[Tim Budong]

arguing what works best or what speed limit really means is one thing
trying to apply ANY reasoning whatsoever towards how to/what to/when to about the Lions Gate Bridge is retarded

I will say it again, the bridge is fucking stupid. This is one common situation in regards to center lane traffic gone bad

Of course, speed played a huge factor into this incident, but thats really where it ends here for me.

I hope Translink and the City look carefully on improving safety standards for the regular joe who uses this retarded bridge daily. All the feeder routes toward the bridge is retarded as well

[jlenko]

Wow.. this thread is just about ready for Fight Club!

Best action it'll see all year..

[T4RAWR]

Originally Posted by NBPTL6o4

...go give us the link to ur cso/gov files before u go judge others
Posted via RS Mobile

there are plenty of people out there who have no criminal records.

[Hot Karl]

Nothing to see here. Just another typical thread where everyone is an expert about everything.
Posted via RS Mobile

[fT-z33wor]

[canali]

good quote but don't expect things to change as per many the driving accidents and fatalities stemming from younger drivers

....an excerpt from your post says it all, and has been echoed earlier, too:
"When I was that age, and if my buddy were driving like that (reckless) in his brand new BMW, I would've
said "Dude, that was fucking awesome!". And now, if I heard someone telling that story that I knew,
I would have to work very hard not to slug him across the face."

the problem is the perennial theme of youth, with its heightened testosterone levels, coupled with strong peer pressure
to be the 'cool alpha male' in a fast machine...add alcohol or drugs and then
finish it off with a good dollop of speed and you've got all the elements of 'the perfect storm' just itchin' to collide.

attitudes imo will only change by the pressure of one's peers, when a tragedy happens in their inner circle
and thus finally hits home. makes them wake them up to the fact that driving with the attitude of invincibility
(aka 'the fast and the furious') on busy public roadways is largely illusory, and 'tis for the stuff of Hollywood and make belief.


---------------------

Originally Posted by Graeme S

I have no idea about this guy's background. Or the passenger's background. Or anything else for that matter. And to be perfectly honest, I really don't care.


Two people died that night. Many more were injured. And while we regret the passing of those who are now lost to us, this does not change the manner in which they died. We do not know the details of the accident yet. It may be that he swerved because of something that fell off another car. It may be that he was "taking his new car for a rip" and lost control. It may be something else.

But they are dead.


Defending their lives will not change that they are dead. Other people are injured, and they are dead. Their parents are mourning and they are dead.

Getting angry at the people who say things you don't like will not bring them back from the dead. It will also not stop others from dying. If you feel upset and angry and depressed because your friends are dead, don't get angry at the people who are saying things you don't want to hear. Get angry at the people who put others in your family at risk.

Just the other day, I was driving with my mom on a small side street. Two-way, with parking. I was driving at just under 50, and each block has stop signs at the beginning and end. Some fucking retarded yahoo whose plate I couldn't make out quickly enough (with an N!) decided to pass me on the left, across a solid yellow line (luckily not into incoming traffic) going at least 80 clicks.


When I was that age, and if my buddy were driving like that in his brand new BMW, I would've said "Dude, that was fucking awesome!". And now, if I heard someone telling that story that I knew, I would have to work very hard not to slug him across the face. Because my mother's reactions are slow. Because my mother would not guess that someone would be going half again the speed limit in the oncoming lane. Because my mother has osteoporosis and would be at a greater risk for a fatal injury from a sudden head-on impact with that kind of speed differential.

Because I love my mother more than I love others' adrenaline rushes.


If you are sad, I sympathize. If you knew the victim, I offer condolences. If you are angry, good.




Go out there and do something to help solve the problem.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

arguing what works best or what speed limit really means is one thing
trying to apply ANY reasoning whatsoever towards how to/what to/when to about the Lions Gate Bridge is retarded

I will say it again, the bridge is fucking stupid. This is one common situation in regards to center lane traffic gone bad

Of course, speed played a huge factor into this incident, but thats really where it ends here for me.

I hope Translink and the City look carefully on improving safety standards for the regular joe who uses this retarded bridge daily. All the feeder routes toward the bridge is retarded as well

Dude. It has NOTHING to do with the centre lane, the car hit the bus all the way over in the far left (to the mazdas) lane. It has to do with an absolute loss of the control of the car. Not every road in the world can have a concrete divider. Sometimes its up to us to control the path of our cars.

[Gridlock]

There is a tendency on the news that only good people die. Inevitably, they will find someone to interview that finds how the world is a worse place without this near saint of a person, good to the core and all that. Happens every news cast, every day. NO one ever gets on the news and says, "he was an average person-he was funny, and nice, but he parked in handicapped spaces to be a dick". This isn't the fault of the news, its people writing revisionist history.

So in a thread on this subject, its going to be quite disheartening to hear that while he was a great friend to you, he may only be an average addition to society.

Tough love time, and for those that knew the deceased, feel free to stop reading. It wasn't the bridge's fault. It wasn't the conditions. It was the driver. So in terms of this entire thread, just remember that you may want to drive 80/90/100+ on the bridge, but it isn't wasn't and never will be designed to do that. You make the decision to hit the gas, then you put yourself, your passengers and the public at risk. It is up to the driver to analyze the conditions that are presented and drive to those conditions. It's wet...slow down. This bridge is the shits..slow down. It's busy...so slow down. It's not the city, or the provinces fault that there isn't a bridge there that allows the general public to do 100+...hey! it would be nice, but don't blame them.

The nanny state can never child proof the entire world.

[tofu1413]

im still guessing he hydroplaned from one side of the road and skidded into the other direction.

when it rains, LGB does look slick.. looks like theres a black film of water on the road... regardless of tread, im pretty sure any car going fast enough would lose grip on all four tires and spin..

[Rich Sandor]

Nothing much to say that hasn't already been said.

My Cole's Notes Summary of this thread:
-Younger and Bleeding-Heart demographic thinks the deaths are a tragedy and that Lion's Gate bridge is unsafe.
-Older and Cynical demographic thinks the driver is solely to blame for the accident.

I have to agree with the older and more cynical demographic. I crossed the LGB for 15 years, 2-4 times daily. I know it as intimately as anyone can know it. In my younger years I have done stupid stuff on it. I know what you can and can't get away with. Every single accident that occurs on this bridge is down to driver error in some regard. Either due to inexperience, or very poor judgement. There was one accident where a tree fell on a car, and that's the only case where it was really unavoidable. This bridge is narrower than most, but if you are careful, it is perfectly safe. If you disagree, you need to maybe take some advanced collision avoidance courses to improve your driving skills - which, by the way, is what I teach for a living.

FYI to everyone - we overuse the word tragedy. Google the true meaning of it. If one of these two kids had just survived a bout of cancer only to die in a car crash - THAT would be a tragedy. I don't think that was the case. My condolences to everyone who was affected by the accident. I would hate for other people to have to suffer in any way because of something dumb that I did in a car.

[Rich Sandor]

^ Redlines Daily, I would love to know what I wrote that was offensive enough to warrant a fail.

[tofu1413]

^ pretty neutral opinion. what a good change of direction on this thread..

[Drow]

Originally Posted by T4RAWR

there are plenty of people out there who have no criminal records.

haha tru dat. brb life = over if i get a crim record

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Nothing much to say that hasn't already been said.

My Cole's Notes Summary of this thread:
-Younger and Bleeding-Heart demographic thinks the deaths are a tragedy and that Lion's Gate bridge is unsafe.
-Older and Cynical demographic thinks the driver is solely to blame for the accident.

I have to agree with the older and more cynical demographic. I crossed the LGB for 15 years, 2-4 times daily. I know it as intimately as anyone can know it. In my younger years I have done stupid stuff on it. I know what you can and can't get away with. Every single accident that occurs on this bridge is down to driver error in some regard. Either due to inexperience, or very poor judgement. There was one accident where a tree fell on a car, and that's the only case where it was really unavoidable. This bridge is narrower than most, but if you are careful, it is perfectly safe. If you disagree, you need to maybe take some advanced collision avoidance courses to improve your driving skills - which, by the way, is what I teach for a living.

There are only a rare few people that said anything about the LGB being unsafe and that being the cause of the accident. most people, even friends of the deceased, were simply making remarks like "RIP", "You will be missed", etc. (In typical RS fashion, whether they knew the deceased or not)

The thread turning to shit was a result of people arguing over the appropriateness of talking about who's to blame and making negative comments towards the deceased in a thread that evidently became an 'in memoriam' thread with many grieving members.

The majority of people upset at the negative remarks toward the driver, are not upset because they are condoning speeding/driving recklessly. There is no need to impose safe driving techniques on the community, the people involved made a very clear example of what not to do and there is no need to add more fuel to the blatantly obvious fire. If they were going at or very close to the speed limit this wouldn't have happened and even if it did not at such a deadly proportion.

In case you haven't noticed I am of the latter group that thinks the driver is solely to blame, but I don't feel the need to clarify how stupid the actions of the deceased were. IMO the deceased weren't exactly salt of the earth either, but any properly socialized person would recognize the direction of the thread and who their comments are in the presence of, and that it's not the right time and place to be calling them "idiots". I agree with one comment that one action does not define you as a person, while it might've been an idiot move there is no need to condemn you as an idiot in what became an 'in memoriam' thread.

If it was your loved one's funeral you would not take kindly if someone in attendance were reminding everyone about every misdeed of your son/brother/cousin/best friend/etc. or calling them idiots/lowlifes/assholes/etc.

[jonwon]

^ most intelligent post in this entire thread. thank you

[Redlines_Daily]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

^ Redlines Daily, I would love to know what I wrote that was offensive enough to warrant a fail.

Hi Rich,

I didn't like your insinuation that this isn't a tragedy. To be honest, sometimes I fail when I disagree with a post but don't want to get into a discussion. I can see that you put some thought into your writing, so I hope you don't take it too personally. Just a fail(we all get lots of em)

-J

[4444]

just gotta say this as i haven't been over lions gate in a month or so, but went over oak street bridge twice (i know, not exactly apples to apples, but an undersized 60kp/h bridge nonetheless), i was going 95km/h just to keep up with traffic, i was not doing this to speed, just going with the flow, and it was raining tonight - didn't feel at all unreasonable to be going that speed...

and yes, i slowed down near the end of the bridge (to answer the db's who are like '80's too fast, it veer's off slightly at the edge of the lion's gate bridge)

again, not trying to be cool by saying i sped, just saying for comparison/actions of surrounding drivers/to showcase how stupidly slow our limits are

[imp_squared]

Just gonna wait for more info/data to come up.
The only thing the cops are saying is "speed is a factor".

Let the experts deal with the "what happened that night and how it happened"

I'm just guessing here.. but hydroplaning?
Are there large water puddles on LGB?
The last time I recall being on LGB when it was raining, (long time ago btw) the bridge deck drained water well and no puddles.
"FYI: You can hydroplane without a puddle (just with rain), but you are far more likely to hydroplane over standing water."

Originally Posted by 4444

just gotta say this as i haven't been over lions gate in a month or so, but went over oak street bridge twice (i know, not exactly apples to apples, but an undersized 60kp/h bridge nonetheless), i was going 95km/h just to keep up with traffic, i was not doing this to speed, just going with the flow, and it was raining tonight - didn't feel at all unreasonable to be going that speed...

and yes, i slowed down near the end of the bridge (to answer the db's who are like '80's too fast, it veer's off slightly at the edge of the lion's gate bridge)

again, not trying to be cool by saying i sped, just saying for comparison/actions of surrounding drivers/to showcase how stupidly slow our limits are

"If you’re caught speeding up to 20 km/h over the limit in your community or on a highway, the fine is $138. If you’re caught doing more than 60 km/h, the fine is $483."

all I know for sure I would've been on the right lane and let you pass me.

so many "what-ifs" in driving.
-if there was a speed check on the bridge everyone would slow the f-down.
-what if something happened.. hydroplane and lost control, etc...

I like being 10kp/h or under the posted speed limit. Plus I don't like paying fines.

[dn53]

I was caught going 60 over on the 91. i was sure i was fucked. I am not one to dispute or complain about tickets that are deserved. I broke the law and i was ready to face the consequences for it. But after a lecture he let me on my way. i was in a heated conversation with the ex in the car, it was late at night, and i just wasnt paying attention to my speed. I couldve easily ended up with a $400 ticket and impound. I am happy he let me go and i did learn from it. This happened to me last week. I am way more conscious about my speed and this incident to top it off makes us all realize how precious life is.