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Old 12-04-2012, 10:58 PM   #1
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North Korean prisoner escaped after 23 brutal years

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Tonight we're going to tell you about a place so brutal and horrific it's hard to believe it exists. It is, by all accounts, a modern-day concentration camp, a secret prison hidden in the mountains, 50 miles from North Korea's capital, Pyongyang. It's called Camp 14, and according to human right rights groups, it's part of the largest network of political prisons in the world today. Some 150,000 people are believed to be doing hard labor on the brink of starvation in these hidden gulags. But it's not just those who have been accused of political crimes; it's their entire families -- grandparents, parents, and children. A practice called "three generations of punishment."

Very little was known about Camp 14 until a young man showed up in South Korea with an extraordinary tale to tell. His name is Shin Dong-hyuk and he said he had not only escaped from Camp 14, but he was born there. He's believed to be the only person born and raised in the camps who's ever escaped and lived to tell about it.
Video link (sorry unable to embed) http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136263n"]North Korean prisoner escaped after 23 brutal years - 60 Minutes - CBS News

Article: North Korean prisoner escaped after 23 brutal years - CBS News

Update:
Honestly I don't know the legitimacy of the character but the story really opened my eyes to the rule of "three generations of punishment." Even the fact that these kinds of places still exist. Just imagine being born in a prison and that's all you know.

If you say you would want to escape, well place yourself in these shoes:

Anderson Cooper: Growing up, did you ever think about escaping?
Shin Dong-hyuk: That never crossed my mind.
Anderson Cooper: It never crossed your mind?
Shin Dong-hyuk: No. Never. What I thought was that the society outside the camp would be similar to that inside the camp.
Anderson Cooper: You thought everybody lived in a prison camp like this?
Shin Dong-hyuk: Yes.

Personally, If I imagine living like that... I start thinking of ways to let the guards kill me.

So remember... This Christmas... How fortunate you really are.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:03 PM   #2
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That's crazy!
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:44 PM   #3
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Any links to this CBS video? as its not playing...
also can you find stories of this camp from credible news sources that arent run by Zionist.
Like seriously, North Korea, Iran, "the axis of evil" of nations that dont have any Rothchild banks in them... any news coming out of the west should be taken with a grain of salt and any South Korean speaking bad of the North is a race traitor.


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Old 12-04-2012, 11:48 PM   #4
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^ i just watched the clip

Im quite skepical because the guy in the video doesnt have the typical North Korean accent
nor uses the terminologies/dictions North Koreans use.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:51 PM   #5
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It's sad kids are born in these camps and have no knowledge of the outside world.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:18 AM   #6
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"[Freedom is when] people can eat what they want."

As a Food/Nutrition student and having written papers on food security all term that's some pretty powerful stuff.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:34 AM   #7
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It's sad kids are born in these camps and have no knowledge of the outside world.
if these camps actually exist... you would have to believe his story first and even then at least require some sort of evidence no?
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:36 AM   #8
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Any links to this CBS video? as its not playing...
also can you find stories of this camp from credible news sources that arent run by Zionist.
Like seriously, North Korea, Iran, "the axis of evil" of nations that dont have any Rothchild banks in them... any news coming out of the west should be taken with a grain of salt and any South Korean speaking bad of the North is a race traitor.

While I may not have much information about the middle east and the histories there, I do have a fair bit more information about Korea and the Korean war. While I would be more than willing to share the knowledge I have gained about North and South Korea and the histories (both recent and ancient), it would take a bit more than this simple thread.

Also, I'm not sure why you would call a South Korean badmouthing the North a "Race Traitor", each side has seemed to demonstrate that they are currently more loyal to political ideologies than what you term 'race'.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:42 AM   #9
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The embedded video didn't work for me, but the video in the article link does.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:53 AM   #10
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Lets see here, if the US turned Vancouver and Richmond into rubble, killing 4.5 million people with 3/4 civilians (like women and children terror bombed from above), but was only able to conquer Vancouver with Richmond remaining free.... your saying its okay for occupied Vancouverites to hate on Richmond because of their new Zionist occupied political ideology?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:07 AM   #11
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To Graeme S
Lets see here, if the US turned Vancouver and Richmond into rubble, killing 4.5 million people with 3/4 civilians (like women and children terror bombed from above), but was only able to conquer Vancouver with Richmond remaining free.... your saying its okay for occupied Vancouverites to hate on Richmond because of their new Zionist occupied political ideology?
No, because the analogies aren't consistent.

What happened in Korea was an expanded proxy war, and in fact North Korea backed mainly by China very nearly took the entire Korean peninsula. Many people who are now either North or South Koreans are there not because of their historical locality, but because that was where they were when their respective troops either left them there or brought them to.

One of my students, now fifteen years old, found out two years ago that his Grandfather had another wife and had started another family in the North before the war. His grandfather was born, if I remember correctly, in or near Tanchon (I'm not sure; he was unclear, and our conversation was about a year ago), and travelled to the South for school. He had a girlfriend and then fiancee who he married before he graduated, and when the war was about to break out he returned home to be with his family.

His family asked him why he had come back, and told him to go to the South. He left, and when the war came, he was trapped in the fighting. By the time the demarcation line had been drawn, he was separated from his family.

My student's father and his grandfather were never allowed to apply to meet their family from the North; any South Korean individual who served as a Commissioned Officer is automatically rejected by the North's government. My student thinks he has at least one Aunt, possibly more, but he's not sure. And he knows that he has family there. He might only be fifteen, but he knows the complexity of the issue--both sides are equally sure their socio-political view is correct, but there's no way to agree on how to reunite because the views are so opposing. And yet they also feel uncomfortable about the possibility of future armed conflict; so many people on both sides have family somewhere out there.


All of the students I've spoken with about the conflict have had extremely difficult mixed feelings. How do you deal with the people who are so completely opposed to your way of life? Even if reunification happened today, the South Korean economy would be severely burdened by the pressure of building essentially an entire nation's worth of infrastructure.


I am curious, however. You specified that "Southerners who speak ill of the north are race traitors", I'm interested to know if the reverse applies in your mind. If so, why specify South -> North? And if not, why not?
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:15 AM   #12
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Very interesting, the way I see it that the "USA" is trying to rule the whole world but I never knew China was also involved in this war. How many million Koreans did the Chinese kill and terror bomb?

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I am curious, however. You specified that "Southerners who speak ill of the north are race traitors", I'm interested to know if the reverse applies in your mind. If so, why specify South -> North? And if not, why not?
This thread is about propagandizing the North, but any North Korean has the right to call any south Korean who hold significant positions in keeping the status quo and in the army a traitor... plus ones that politically speak ill of the north.

Last edited by CharlesInCharge; 12-05-2012 at 01:18 AM. Reason: added last sentence
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:28 AM   #13
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It's interesting to see how someone who's entire exsistance has been in a prison camp would feel the need to escape. I mean the prison doctrine probably influenced the mentality of the growing boy. Apart from what those around him explained things to him in secret, its amazing that someone who would have known nothing else could have made it all the way to south korea.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:36 AM   #14
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Very interesting, the way I see it that the "USA" is trying to rule the whole world but I never knew China was also involved in this war. How many million Koreans did the Chinese kill and terror bomb?
Oh god. This is where it gets complicated.

So. Not only was this a war between North (Communist) and South (Capitalist) forces, but this was also the fallout of a few other things. After World War II, the Japanese (who had been occupying Korea for almost a half-century) were required to withdraw from Korea. You may or may not be aware of this, but Kim Jong Il, the second of the "Kim Dynasty", was actually born in Russia, and returned to Pyeongyang shortly after his father did. The departure of the Japanese occupying force was actually the power vacuum which was one of the larger causes of the conflict. Russia, then an ally of the US, had requested and was granted "buffer zones" in order to protect itself, and as a result Soviet forces (which, as a result of being opposed to the Japanese, were often supported by the Chinese) moved into and through China and the rest of Asia.

I oversimplify for the sake of brevity, but I hope you'll bear with me.

Those Koreans who had escaped to Russia and China then returned to their home nations in order to assist in the rebuilding and redevelopment of their nation. Since they had been given shelter in a communist country, their natural predisposition was towards the communist ideal--they had been protected and nurtured by it, and it had not yet shown that it was an unreliable source of rulership.

Originally, both US and Soviet forces were to jointly protect and build up Korea into a stand-alone stable nation. Unfortunately, the ideological divide proved to be too strong, and conflict broke out with casualties and victories on both sides. When the demarcation line was finally drawn, neither side could admit defeat, and as a result no treaty was signed. This is why the war is technically still on.

I am not at all trying to say that what happened was just or right. And in fact during the '80s there were some absolutely horrific travesties; the time once was that there were more than 20 media companies throughout the South. Under the dictatorial (yet supposedly democratic) rule of Park Chung-Hee, the media companies were consolidated and put under near-direct control of the Government. Students who attended the largest university at the time had the pleasure of being located at the edge of Seoul, against a mountainside and with the main police station literally on campus. Why? Because Universities are centres of revolution, and if the police are nearby they can oppress and crush any resistance before it has the chance to spread.

I am not at all trying to say that anyone is "right" here. But at the same time, no one side can be "wrong".


I apologize for the length of this post, I know it's longer than the usual RS "lol u suck you're wrong fag" post, but despite the length I still feel it's probably about only a quarter of what I'd like to express as far as the complexity of the conflict.

While we sit here casting stones, people's lives go on--some suffering, some profiting. Sometimes it's the right people doing both, but more often it's not.


Quote:
This thread is about propagandizing the North, but any North Korean has the right to call any south Korean who hold significant positions in keeping the status quo and in the army a traitor.
Then I would counter that the same could be said of any North Korean who is in a significant position helping maintain the status quo is also a "race-traitor". There are always good people and bad people on each side. The people who are unwilling to compromise are often the last ones who must face the suffering of the majority; and these are more often than not the people who make decisions about the future of peoples and nations.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:57 AM   #15
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For reference in re: University life back then. Dude's a great narrator, and even if you don't understand Korean, you can probably catch the cadence and places where he is just by listening to how he tells the story.

Conflict (both internal and external) are nothing new to any region of the world.

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YiHyun - How media is manipulated
I went to university back in the 80s. The 80s were dark times. When people from my generation look at today’s university students, we’re really jealous on one hand. They’re a lot more carefree than we are. When I was in university, times were dark and depression, and we had a lot of issues to worry about.
When I went to university- you know that metal sculpture in the front of Seoul National University? to the left of that we, the students would walk in single file, and to the right, you know who would enter the campus? The police. In front of Seoul National University is the largest police station in Asia. The station is about 1.5, 2 kms to the school and there would be a line of policemen extending from the station all the way to the front gate of the school in the morning, where they would enter with the students. How many police men would enter? A minimum of 1000 policemen, every day.
The campus was filled with police. Every bench was occupied with a police man. Every spot of grass where students could sit down was in hearing range of a police man. Because of this, you couldn’t smile at school. If you smiled, you either had mental issues, or you has NO thoughts whatsoever to the situation around you.
This is a time when we felt that every phone inside the school was bugged. We knew every room was bugged too. So when we communicated in our rooms, we hardly ever talked. If it was important, we wrote it down. What did we do with the papers that we wrote things down on? We burned them.
Participating in a protest once for us was something that could get you killed. So we had to be really careful when spreading the news about a protest. You NEVER passed on information about a protest by phone. What would happen is you would walk through the grass fields, and an upperclassmen would, from behind, start walking next to you, and as they walk side by side with you, without looking at you, they’d say “month, day, time” and the second you heard that your heart would start racing. You feel like you’ve become a independence fighter. And because of that idealism, you’d end up going to the protest despite how dangerous it was.
Later on, if you guys study Communications, publication, sociology, history, or political science, you’ll be granted access to historical archives of the newspapers of the 1980s and of before, during Park’s dictatorship or Chun’s. Back then, there were the 4 major papers since it was before the creation of the Hangyureh, but the 4 papers were the Chosun, the Donga, the Joongang, and the Hanguk were the 4 major papers.
In that era, all 4 papers would be the same. If you looked at the front page, every newspaper, everyday would be the same. There would be a picture in the upper left or in the upper center. What picture? Park Chunghwee’s picture, or Chun Duhwan’s picture. Doesn’t it sound like I’m talking about North Korea right now?
Even the titles of articles were the same. How do newspapers produce articles with the same titles? Do all reporters think as one?
The secret was revealed, how that was possible.
One of my upperclassmen became a reporter. He was a person who believed that he could instill justice in society through the pen. So he dreamed of writing of what’s right, and so he dreamed of becoming a reporter, and eventually became a reporter.
He became a reporter, but they had him writing fiction novels.
When Chun DuHwan was in power, go read the Chosun Daily. Notice how they praise, almost worship Chun. Those apathetic bastards. I have never heard about these people apologizing. I haven’t heard of them kneeling in front of the Korean masses and apologizing for what they did. That newspaper still remains today.
This is the newspaper that, during the Gwangju massacre, called the people protesting for democracy as “thugs under the control of North Korean agents” and called it the Gwangju riots, I haven’t heard of the people responsible for this ever apologizing.
Anyways, my upperclassmen who became a reporter, he would ask the other reporters with more experience who were older than him if they became a reporter to be doing this shit, is this what a reporter should be doing? And every single one of them told him he was too naive and he was too young.
Back then there was a government ministry called the Ministry of Culture and Public Relations, and inside this ministry was the department of Public Relations and Advertisement. Every day, this department would fax something to every major newspaper’s editing office. The title of this fax was “Government Order on Reporting”.
The things that were on the order were things such as “do not ever write an article on x”, number 2, “when writing an article about a certain topic, do not ever use a certain phrase in the title”, number 3, “when writing an article about a certain topic, make sure to use the specified phrase in the title”, and finally number 4, “limit the length of an article to a specific number of lines of print”.
The measurement in Korea back in the days was dan. Now, all the newspapers are read horizontally, but back in the 80s, you would read the newspaper vertically, from top to bottom, and then left to write. A dan represented a vertical length. It still remains to this day, as a front page of a newspaper, disregarding the margins, is 13 dan from top to bottom. This order would tell the newspapers to only reserve 1 dan for a certain story, or 5 dans for another story.
So if a story is 1 dan, would the story’s importance be emphasized or not? Of course not, the importance of the story would be presented as being very small. If the story covers a whole 5 dans, more than 1/3 of the front page, the story becomes larger, more discussed, seemingly more important. If a story was as large as 8 dans, it’s top news. But hardly any stories went up to 8 dans and even a story that’s 5 dans was big news.
What’s funny is that no matter how trivial something is, if you give it 5 dans of newspaper coverage on the front page, it seems like a dire matter. Inversely, if you take a very important topic and only give it 1 dan of coverage on the front page, the story feels trivial or it isn’t even seen.
This is the basics of media manipulation.
And then enters the TV. How do you manipulate the TV news to emphasize importance? What is the basic of TV news media manipulation?
The order the stories are presented in.
The first story presented is the story the broadcasting center chose as the most important. We too perceive the first story as the most important.
Do you understand?
So back in the days of Park and Chun, it was the government who was deciding this, up to the mid 80s. It helped that there was a government official in every editing office. Members of the Korean CIA would be in the editing office and oversee the newspapers and news shows and reporters.
And that’s why you got the same newspaper everyday.
My upperclassmen who became a reporter took the report orders and copied them and kept them. He kept them and archived them, and eventually he had a press conference.
A reporter opening a press conference.
At this press conference, he didn’t call any Korean reporters. Why? Because if he called Korean reporters, Korean CIA agents came with them. So at this press conference he only called foreign press groups. Reuters, AF press, the AP. These are the groups he called.
Calling in these foreign press groups, he leaked the report orders and explained ”here is a dictatorship which manipulates the media like this”. He leaked the secret to the whole world.
In Korea, we call this the Report Order Incident.
What do you think happened to him? He went to jail. He was fired from his job and then taken to jail. Do you know what they charged him with? Releasing national secrets.
Do you think it was easy for him to become a whistleblower? It probably wasn’t. He would have known that he was going to be taken to jail, right? He knew that he was going to be fired.
But it wasn’t just being fired and being imprisoned. Back then they would torture you. There are people who are disabled today because of the injuries they sustained being beaten and tortured. There are people who died during the torture that they would inflict on prisoners. Do you think he wasn’t afraid of the torture? He probably had the shit beaten out of him. Was he not scared of it?
He probably thought of a lot of things. Does me doing this change the world in the slightest way? Does me doing this alone cause any change in the world? Don’t you think he asked himself these questions?
When this happened, he had just married. Do you think he wasn’t worried for his wife?
Mengzi said, 2300 years ago, to call what is right, right, sometimes you must have the courage to risk your life to do it. To call something wrong, wrong, you have to risk your means of surviving disappearing. And because of that fear, in the face of power, we have a hard time saying what is right is right, and what is wrong is wrong.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:51 AM   #16
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So you're saying the colonial Zionist who go around the world and commit genocide in mass number for profit and control are also the righteous ones?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:56 AM   #17
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So you're saying the colonial Zionist who go around the world and commit genocide in mass number for profit and control are also the righteous ones?
Not at all. The people who you group into the "colonial Zionists" are neither righteous nor demonic. They are people who believe that they are right and others are wrong. The thing I want to point out, and the reason I posted the video of the oppression faced during Park Chung-hee's time is that no side is free of its bads, as no side is free of its goods. Whether either is for the greater good in the long run is something that none of us will live to see, as the time it takes to make that judgement is likely in the high-single decades, and quite probably on the order of a Century or more.


As much as we might like to paint the world in black and white, there are greys everywhere. Every good has a seed of bad, and vice versa.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:08 AM   #18
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No with all your writing here, you are justifying mass genocide in the hundreds of millions committed by these elites.
Maybe you think what they're doing is "saving our planet" from over population or from some other rogue set of rulers doing the same but on a harsher scale... I dont buy it, the world could have balanced it self out without the centuries of misery it has seen and will keep seeing on a world wide scale.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:26 AM   #19
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No with all your writing here, you are justifying mass genocide in the hundreds of millions committed by these elites.
Maybe you think what they're doing is "saving our planet" from over population or from some other rogue set of rulers doing the same but on a harsher scale... I dont buy it, the world could have balanced it self out without the centuries of misery it has seen and will keep seeing on a world wide scale.
I'm not trying to justify anything. As a personal opinion, I think war comes as a result of extreme selfishness; that one side wants to keep something or say "I'm right!" rather than sharing or compromising. Terrible things happen in war. Terrible things happen in peacetime. Terrible things happen at times we say we're not at war but there are conflicts breaking out. I don't want to try and justify any type of action that I haven't committed to personally.

I do, however, want to remember and keep in mind that the decisions of others that only affect others should not be judged by people like myself who haven't experienced them and won't experience them firsthand.


In most nations, people who belong to conservative parties or blocs of politics will more often than not be staunchly nationalistic--they will want to protect national interests and economies and reduce foreign dependence. Yet in South Korea, the conservatives are generally the more progressive when it comes to foreign policy and trade agreements. Why? Because the biggest defining factor that separates North and South Korea is the completely opposite attitude regarding contact with foreign nations. Obviously, it's not quite as simple as this, but North Korea essentially shuns all contact, whereas South Korea embraces it and actively seeks it.

While in South Korea they use the phonetic equivalent of "Ice cream" as the word for it in their own language, the North Koreans use an expression which translates roughly to "frozen cotton candy". In the old Choseon dynasty, before the annexation/occupation/colonization by Japan, Chinese characters ("Hanja") were considered the language of the educated and ruling class. The phonetic system now commonly used today (Hangeul) was considered good enough for the masses but too lowly for the ruling class. "A smart man in an hour, a normal man in a day, and a foolish man in a week" the saying went, when referring to the length of time it would take to learn it. Yet now, both North and South Korea use it as their primary system of writing. Kimchi, considered one of the most representative foods of Korea, was not always spicy. It wasn't until Dutch traders crashed/discovered/came to Korea that the Koreans were introduced to chili peppers.

So where does "traditional" Korea end, and "modern" Korea begin? And whose Korea is the real korea? (insert "North Korea is best Korea" joke here so we can move on with the discussion) And, if such a determination is to be made, should it be made by people like us? Foreign observers? Not in my mind.

While you and I are at odds on some issues, this is one issue that we do, in part, overlap on. Cultures and nations should be left to themselves to resolve their own issues. It is neither my nor your place to judge what is best for Korea, or anyone else. If you believe that interfering in order to advance your own goals is the optimal choice, then I would remind you that this is the main reason you have a dislike for what you would call the "Americentric Zionist forces", to paraphrase slightly.
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Because the Americans had ruthlessly and instantly killed over 150,000 Asian civilians (with two bombs just prior to the Korean war) is maybe why the American influenced south Korean soldiers werent as passionate to be winning the war to the north... so the Zionist had to bring in soldiers from many of their occupied nations, like Canada and even black soldiers from Africa, to push back the north.

If this isnt outside foreign determination, I dont know what is.

Now south Korea is not a sovereign country and is under the umbrella with all of the other Zionist occupied nations... yet you support this system and its hidden ruling elites.

South Korea is the the fake Korea and one day will be as poor as other Zionist states like Mexico and its people moral-less and stupid as some of L.A.'s lowest class citizens.

http://typeofwords.com/wp-content/up.../01/Orwell.jpg

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:41 AM   #21
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^ i just watched the clip

Im quite skepical because the guy in the video doesnt have the typical North Korean accent
nor uses the terminologies/dictions North Koreans use.
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He has lived in south Korea for around 7 years now, which would explain his difference from other north Koreans. What I'm sketched out about is his claim to have climbed over the electric fence... and you would think that as north Korea would have assassinated him for revealing so much
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:52 AM   #22
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Good post.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:56 AM   #23
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Read the book, it's worth your time. It was so engrossing I read it in two days this summer.

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:39 AM   #24
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Very interesting, the way I see it that the "USA" is trying to rule the whole world but I never knew China was also involved in this war. How many million Koreans did the Chinese kill and terror bomb?


This thread is about propagandizing the North, but any North Korean has the right to call any south Korean who hold significant positions in keeping the status quo and in the army a traitor... plus ones that politically speak ill of the north.
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Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge View Post
Because the Americans had ruthlessly and instantly killed over 150,000 Asian civilians (with two bombs just prior to the Korean war) is maybe why the American influenced south Korean soldiers werent as passionate to be winning the war to the north... so the Zionist had to bring in soldiers from many of their occupied nations, like Canada and even black soldiers from Africa, to push back the north.

If this isnt outside foreign determination, I dont know what is.

Now south Korea is not a sovereign country and is under the umbrella with all of the other Zionist occupied nations... yet you support this system and its hidden ruling elites.

South Korea is the the fake Korea and one day will be as poor as other Zionist states like Mexico and its people moral-less and stupid as some of L.A.'s lowest class citizens.

http://typeofwords.com/wp-content/up.../01/Orwell.jpg
Charlie....if you didn't know that China was involved in the Korean War, maybe you should keep the "zionist forces" bullshit to a minimum. You are obviously not informed on the subject enough to even talk!

Large powers have always used small powers to do their bidding for them. For every gov't the US propped up to suit their interests, I can show you a Castro, which would have been a skidmark in the pages of history had it not been for his Russian friends.

So why don't you stop for a second, and instead of trying to be a dick, listem to what a guy, while not being an expert on the subject, has been there, has eaten the Kim Chee and has talked to people and try to learn?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:30 AM   #25
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Read the book, it's worth your time. It was so engrossing I read it in two days this summer.

I hope they make a movie based on this story.
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