China owns Alberta now

[penner2k]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

and you think Harper won't give them the permit? LOL doesn't matter what he said. At the end of the day he can change his words or just say things have change now so we need to change as well.......

Harper doesnt give them the permits. lol...
that isnt a Federal Issue... that isnt even a provincial issue... If the locals arent happy with what they are doing up there they will cut every permit essentially making it impossible for them to actually get any work done.
And if they wont be bullied by the big oil companies they sure as hell wont be bullied by this Chinese company. lol

[lady_mapetite]

i agree with MoBettah. i honestly think this will benefit canada because we need to diversify our business partners and how we utilize our resources. harper isn't only trying to get into china's good books.. in the greater scheme of things, i think he's trying to give canada better leverage in the global economy. we have resources to offer to countries who need it but at the right price and not at the detriment of the canadian economy.

i hate the fact that canada put all their eggs in one basket and canadians have this conception that americans are our buddies.. they aren't. for instance, we sell them oil at a discounted price and they sell us back refined oil at market price. they sell us old/crappy military jets and tanks which cost millions to fix. the softwood lumber dispute? they asked to be bailed out for a mess they created and no one wanted to so they crash their currency and burn a hole in everyone's federal reserve.

the era of america is over. they screwed them themselves over in 2008 by letting wall street run wild and it's going to take a while for them to clean up this mess. i just think canada needs to stop selling itself short to america

[jasonturbo]

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

[m!chael]

.

[penner2k]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

lol @ 35k barrels per day...
That is less then one Suncor pad and that only takes us a year to build..

also btw if people want to buy gas from a Canadian company then buy from Petro Canada. Suncor (owner of Petro Canada) has the highest percentage of Canadian ownership out of all the oil companies.

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by penner2k

lol @ 35k barrels per day...
That is less then one Suncor pad and that only takes us a year to build..

Yes, Firebag kills it.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Lol at the stupidity in this thread. Honestly, there has been so many threads on this forums over the last couple years about Harper, Pipelines, and the Oilsands that I can't even be bothered to chime in anymore.

Nexen is a lemon, it's the failure of the oilsands, to be honest, I'm surprised the Chinese were stupid enough to buy it. Operating for 5 years and they are yet to reach and maintain even 50% of the original target production... and this is after billions more were invested to increase production. There is something about the formation which is just not receptive to SAGD, it's essentially the worst parcel of Oilsands land there is. Nexen is certainly not a huge portion of our natural resources..

Long Lake: 35,000BBL/day (This is the highest level of production they have attained, from 2008-2012 the avg production has been roughly 22,000BBL/day.)
Canada Production: 4,100,000BBL/day.

(Some tough math right there, less than 1% of daily production, and in couple years it will be less than half a percent due to some major projects coming online)

Oh and for the record, foreign workers have been at Long Lake since 2005, involved in both construction and operations. Right now, today, there are still foreign devils on that site stealing Canadian jobs!... and guess what, Canadian people made the decision to bring them here... not CNOOC or the Chinese Govt.

Maybe we should stop letting Chinese people immigrate to Canada? If we don't allow foreign investment I don't see why we let foreigners in either, they might have the same motives as the evil Chinese empire... (For &#&# sakes...)

Pipeline(s) will be approved, would you prefer they ship the oil by train???

Sigh, it's okay to have an opinion on anything, but at least try and have an educated one.

I can't imagine what would happen to Canada's economy if we weren't exploiting our resources.. not sure if you folks realize this, but the massive migration of jobs out of North America is only going to get worse, we simply cannot compete with the low cost of manufacturing, design, technology, etc of the up and coming developing nations around the world. This a resource based economy, and Canadian corporations simply do not have the capital to develop the oilsands, to call oilsands development "capitally intensive" would be an understatement.

I know BC liberals don't care about the oilsands like us people who are directly employred in the sector, but I think you fail to realize how indirectly affected everyone in Canada is.

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........

[MoBettah]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........

Pathetic.

First you ignore every point he made, then sidestep the entire issue with sweeping hate and racism.

[shenmecar]

This is like Risk, China is gonna dominate the world!

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by MoBettah

Pathetic.

First you ignore every point he made, then sidestep the entire issue with sweeping hate and racism.

I am a Chinese and all the things I mentions is 100% and haven been discuss here on RS as well. What's next? take over BC Hydro, Telus, CTV, why not start selling our cities. It always start with something something small.

Do you honestly think it will stop here? Do you honestly think there won't be anymore take overs from China gov run operational? This is just the 1st step. Take what you can get your hands on and slowly take over other natural rescourse such as our hydro. Also this take over is by a company who have Chinese's gov backing them. Do you really think their intentions is to help Canadian and create jobs? No their intentions is to benfit their own.

Do you honestly believe Harper will keep his words? I don't any natural rescourse from Canada should not be own by another Company who is own, operate and have strong gov influence from another country (such as this case). If the Chinese Gov isn't behind China National Offshore Oil Co I am sure most people will be ok.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

having people spit on the streets or even inside a store

nothing new with that. just go to a bubble tea store and look for a bunch of teens in north face jackets in a circle blocking the front entrance smoking

[Akinari]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Yes and soon we will see Kids pooping in malls and leaving brown surprise everywhere, buying carts and carts of goods and sending it back to china, having people spit on the streets or even inside a store, putting $200 on the passenger's seat while taking a driving test for the testing instructor to see........

I swear that's already happening

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Do you really think their intentions is to help Canadian and create jobs? No their intentions is to benfit their own.

Do you honestly believe Harper will keep his words? I don't any natural rescourse from Canada should not be own by another Company who is own, operate and have strong gov influence from another country (such as this case).

Their intention is to secure some natural resources, the people of China need oil just like the people in Canada. People assume they have some hidden agenda to replace all the Canadian workers... well I trust you are aware that the Feds would still need to approve each and every single work Visa that would be issued... and the legal fallout that would result from terminating long term employees to replace them with Chinese Nationals would be a media frenzy for the ages.

Nexen's assets are diversified and include the UK's North Sea, Offshore West Africa, and the Gulf, with the majority of Nexen's income coming from the UK. Long Lake has been a nightmare for share holders, terrible ROI... if you think any reasonable person would pay 15 Billion for 30,000BBL/day you are nuts, this was not a bid to secure a chunk of Canadian Oilsands land, it was a bid to secure a diversified mid tier oil producer.

The Chinese do not have some "secret plan", they are doing what's best for them - Just like any private or public company would do... I don't recall a CNOOC press release where they said the reason for this purchase is to create jobs for Canadians. If Nexen wasn't doing "what's best for them" they wouldn't be selling the company.

All your comments have done is make me cancel my plane ticket to China...

[ScizzMoney]

I actually work at Nexen in Fort Mac. What Jasonturbo is saying about Long Lake is true. It's a lemon of an oil sands site. The amount of problems here that can't be easily fixed is staggering.

[StylinRed]

The reasoning that "aw who cares these are small companies" is a silly one imo; the fact that a foreign state (not company, state) owns our companies now and that even CSIS is against it, should be concerning

to say that "oh they're not going to load us with foreign workers and municipal govts will put a stop to hanky panky" is a naive one, as evidence shows otherwise and even the govt. is concerned with that hence they gave a "warning" that they'll have their eye on them (think its noted in the financial post article i linked or cbc)

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

The reasoning that "aw who cares these are small companies" is a silly one imo; the fact that a foreign state (not company, state) owns our companies now and that even CSIS is against it, should be concerning

to say that "oh they're not going to load us with foreign workers and municipal govts will put a stop to hanky panky" is a naive one, as evidence shows otherwise and even the govt. is concerned with that hence they gave a "warning" that they'll have their eye on them (think its noted in the financial post article i linked or cbc)

Can you just explain what the issue is with a foreign state owned company purchasing a publicly traded Canadian company? How would it be any different than a private foreign company making the purchase? (In terms of how it would affect Canadians)

I'm just looking for a list of concerns.

Keep in mind the foreign worker issue is not valid IMO, as there is already many foreign workers in Canada, especially in the Oilsands, both local and foreign private company's are sending them here.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Can you just explain what the issue is with a foreign state owned company purchasing a publicly traded Canadian company? How would it be any different than a private foreign company making the purchase? (In terms of how it would affect Canadians)

I'm just looking for a list of concerns.

my main dislike of this is we gave up state control in our oil years ago which i felt was ridiculous imo the govt. and citizenry would benefit/profit more with these resources outside of corporate hands but that's where the country decided to move and now here we are basically giving control to a foreign state which i can only see being the beginning of further encroachment (regardless of what harper claims) which will ends up allowing a foreign state have a say in future laws etc, through lobbying in the guise of a corporation which has more sway as they're inside (something the govt/csis noted but ignored by harper)

Keep in mind the foreign worker issue is not valid IMO, as there is already many foreign workers in Canada, especially in the Oilsands, both local and foreign private company's are sending them here.

oh i dont consider this a major irk/concern but an irk just the same which simply adds to the problem

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

my main dislike of this is we gave up state control in our oil years ago which i felt was ridiculous imo the govt. and citizenry would benefit/profit more with these resources outside of corporate hands but that's where the country decided to move and now here we are basically giving control to a foreign state which i can only see being the beginning of further encroachment (regardless of what harper claims) which will ends up allowing a foreign state have a say in future laws etc, through lobbying in the guise of a corporation which has more sway as they're inside (something the govt/csis noted but ignored by harper)

oh i dont consider this a major irk/concern but an irk just the same which simply adds to the problem

When did Canada ever have state control of oil or any resource for that matter?

I'm not very positive on crown corporations, I feel there is too much red-tape and bureaucracy in anything our Fed Govt touches... it would simply create Govt. jobs and likely result in a net benefit to those employees more than anything... I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow managed to run these oil producing assets at a loss. That's IMO anyway, I deal with the Fed Govt a lot on regulatory issues and I am constantly blown away with how slow and useless they are with everything they touch, in fact, after another couple years of working for private companies I plan to jump over to the regulatory side (NEB). Why? Cause it's a gravy train followed by a comfy retirement.

My stance is this, I am all for the gov. allowing foreign investment in the oilsands, it would be beneficial for Canada in the short term. The Feds have a lot of stroke and a lot of time to impose royalties and tarrifs that would ensure these foreign investments are of "net benefit" to Canadians in the long term. Once the investment is here, it is not very likely anyone will "pull out" due to an increase in royalties or tarrifs.. heck I might even vote NDP in a decade hahaha.

Either way, speculation is just that, speculative, only time will tell.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

When did Canada ever have state control of oil or any resource for that matter?

sorry should rephrase that simply meant crown ownership or part-owner

of course there's a lot of red-tape/bureaucracy in a crown corp but those issues could be rectified


to your last point, certainly its speculative but imo its too much of a risk especially when its china on the other end

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

sorry should rephrase that simply meant crown ownership or part-owner

of course there's a lot of red-tape/bureaucracy in a crown corp but those issues could be rectified


to your last point, certainly its speculative but imo its too much of a risk especially when its china on the other end

I'm still not sure I understand the risks? You're basically just saying the main risk would be Chinese influence over Canadian affairs?

Well then I must ask, why be concerned with Chinese influence on Canadian affairs.. in comparison to how say the influence of Private Companies on Canadian affairs, I doubt their intentions are any more noble than those of the Chinese.

Sounds to me like a fairly weak and speculative argument... not trying to be a dink, just not sure I understand why it's such a concern.

[Lomac]

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned, the problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway. Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned? They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

I'll add more when I'm not as busy at work...

[MoBettah]

Originally Posted by Lomac

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned, the problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway. Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned? They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

I'll add more when I'm not as busy at work...

Ok, let me get this straight.

You think that private ( I think you mean publicly share holder owned ) companies have the same goals as those that are government owned?

You also think that "private" (again, I think you mean public) companies have "relatively small" abilities to lobby for changes?

And finally you think that a foreign state owned Canadian company will have influence over clueless politicians because they have more money?

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by Lomac

While companies that are privately owned usually share the same over all goals as those that are Crown owned

I assume you didn't have a straight face when you made that comment.

- Crown, for the good of the nation.
- Private, for the good of the shareholders.

Originally Posted by Lomac

The problem with a company owned by a government means that there's the potential for policy sway.

Are you suggesting that lobbyists don't exist until a foreign state owned company gets involved? I can assure you that all lobbyists (Domestic and foreign) have the same goal, their own interests, regardless of where they came from there has probably never been a single lobbyist who was looking to sway policy for the benefit of a nations people.

Originally Posted by Lomac

Sure, Nexen is a small player in the grand scheme of things and, as such, their ability to lobby for changes is relatively small. However, what happens if a much larger corporation in any field (forestry, oil, hell... even film) becomes state owned?

They don't need to own a local company in order to lobby, yes as they control more local assets maybe they will gain some leverage, but you have to admit, at this rate, we are decades away from that being a valid concern. There is nothing suggesting that China is even trying to buy any major Canadian assets, nor is there any reason to believe the Feds would allow it, or allow it without a long list of exceptions.

Originally Posted by Lomac

They'll have a large amount of money to use for lobbying and can potentially change things through politicians that don't realize what they're doing.

They already have a large amount of money to use for lobbying, and certainly don't need local assets in order to begin lobbying for anything - though as stated above, it does provide some leverage if they own significant assets.


I have nothing against people raising concerns, but there certainly isn't enough reason for concern at this time to validate the attitude of "China owns Alberta"... Perhaps that was satyrical, though some of the posts in this thread would suggest there are people on this forum who are against the idea of foreign investment (Especially from the Chinese) and would have you believe that we have essentially been taken over by communists.

This is a significant purchase in the sense that it will act as a bit of a pilot, something we may be able to use to fine tune our policies with respect to foreign investment.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by MoBettah

Ok, let me get this straight.

You think that private ( I think you mean publicly share holder owned ) companies have the same goals as those that are government owned?

You also think that "private" (again, I think you mean public) companies have "relatively small" abilities to lobby for changes?

And finally you think that a foreign state owned Canadian company will have influence over clueless politicians because they have more money?

Is not that they have more money is the fact that you are dealing from gov to gov with compicate things such as forgein trade policy. When it is a public own company you don't have to deal with as much.

Example China decides to stop importing lumber from Canada becasue we don't allow them to expand the oil sand. Becasue the Chinese gov have way more power and leverage than a public own company.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Well then I must ask, why be concerned with Chinese influence on Canadian affairs.. in comparison to how say the influence of Private Companies on Canadian affairs, I doubt their intentions are any more noble than those of the Chinese.

their concerns are drastically different one is for profit the other can be any range of issues; from human rights concerns to refugee issues...

we've already seen Canada give up political refugees to china just to start the ball rolling on signing deals and this was done from the outside but now having a state owned company basically puts chinas foot in the door to influence domestic issues as well as foreign and with greater sway

its not as weak and speculative as you think when we already have evidence of it happening here and abroad (africa)

you could say its no different for china to manipulate/sway from the outside than it is from the inside but i disagree

hell even our spy agency disagrees CSIS warns of foreign takeover risks in annual report - Politics - CBC News